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Boomstick Bruce

WTC: back up guns

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Posted (edited)

So as some of you know i have switched from wrangler to duelist. i shoot a pair of stainless 5.5" Uberti 58's with gated kirst conversions in 45colt. my back up is an adjustable sights 5.5" Remington 58 with a taylors drop in cylinder also in 45colt.

 

here is my question. i know in duelist im restricted to fixed sights guns only. but what if halfway through a match one of my main guns breaks and i have to switch to my back up which has adjustable sites?

Edited by Boomstick Bruce

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So what's the question? Illegal equipment is illegal.

 

Snakebite

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4 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

So what's the question? Illegal equipment is illegal.

 

Snakebite

 

i guess the question was "can i use it"

 

apparently not.

 

 

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I think you could use it but shots from that gun would not be counted.

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38 minutes ago, Boomstick Bruce said:

So as some of you know i have switched from wrangler to duelist. i shoot a pair of stainless 5.5" Uberti 58's with gated kirst conversions in 45colt. my back up is an adjustable sights 5.5" Remington 58 with a taylors drop in cylinder also in 45colt.

 

here is my question. i know in duelist im restricted to fixed sights guns only. but what if halfway through a match one of my main guns breaks and i have to switch to my back up which has adjustable sites?

IIRC-Age based category, you can use adjustable sights.

Am I remember'n that 'rite'??:unsure:

OLG

 

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30 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Sure you can... For two stages.

 

Bingo!

Blackfoot:o

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5 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

IIRC-Age based category, you can use adjustable sights.

Am I remember'n that 'rite'??:unsure:

OLG

 

Yes, but category requirements must first be met. 

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1 minute ago, Snakebite said:

Yes, but category requirements must first be met. 

OK-Then as a senior Duelist, I can use adjustable sights then-is that correct?

What about Silver Senior? Since I can shoot either 1 or 2 handed..........

TNX for the time!

Sorry for the derail in topic.

OLG

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Senior duelist is a no on adjustable sights.

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10 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

Take the sites off.

External mod.

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21 minutes ago, two dot said:

Senior duelist is a no on adjustable sights.

I looked at the handbook and didn't see that.

May I ask where it is stated?

TNX,

OLG

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OLG,

 

At one of the last Summits the change was made so that any combo category follows the rules for the specific category (duelist, FC, GF...) first. The only age-based category item is the age.

 

Regards,

 

AM

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P. 10 SHB

"

CATEGORY MATRIX

Above the “Base Categories” listed in this handbook, the local club monthly match and club

annual match level, all SASS recognized shooting categories may be offered by subdividing

by all factors; including age, gender, shooting style, and propellant. When breaking down all

style/costume categories, the regulations for the base category is to be applied first, then the

age limits. A full listing of all possible shooting category combinations is unavailable. The

breakdown examples below serve to provide a glimpse into the various possibilities:

- Gunfighter à Lady Senior Gunfighter à Lady Senior Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter.

- Duelist à Lady Duelist à Lady Senior Duelist à Lady Silver Senior Duelist.

"

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And the answer is:  SWITCH CATEGORY!    Shooting even ONE stage w/illegal equipment is a "P", a second stage is a SDQ.  I've had to do this because I found a problem with my BP rifle ammo... switched from Frontiersman to Senior.  No issues, no worries.   You can still choose to shoot DUELIST style in an age-based category if you desire... :P

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As others stated you must conform to shooting style first then seperate to age. However you may shoot duelist style in any age based category.

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2 minutes ago, Griff said:

And the answer is:  SWITCH CATEGORY!    Shooting even ONE stage w/illegal equipment is a "P", a second stage is a SDQ.  I've had to do this because I found a problem with my BP rifle ammo... switched from Frontiersman to Senior.  No issues, no worries.   You can still choose to shoot DUELIST style in an age-based category if you desire... :P

That would  be my suggestion and was on an annual match committee. The MD announced at the shooters' meeting that changing categories was not an option.

 

First, I quit the committee. Then, I did not attend the match. (There were multiple reasons for that.)

 

So Bruce, to ensure you don't this type of problem, get a fixed-sight revolver for a spare.

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15 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

That would  be my suggestion and was on an annual match committee. The MD announced at the shooters' meeting that changing categories was not an option.

 

First, I quit the committee. Then, I did not attend the match. (There were multiple reasons for that.)

 

So Bruce, to ensure you don't this type of problem, get a fixed-sight revolver for a spare.

My reaction would be to fire the MD.  Anyone THAT inflexible doesn't meet my qualifications as a MD.  RO Rule #4 applies!  A benevolent autocracy is the leadership style most likely to be successful!  

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Well, how wonderful, if we can switch Categories then I think I'll go to WR, shoot Elderstatesman with both hands and Smokeless for the first 11 stages, and then switch to Senior FC Duelist.  I'm sure that nobody would have a problem with that. If you are at a local monthly match, then just let him continue to shoot the gun with adjustable sights. THAT is a much better answer than allowing a category change in the middle of a match.

 

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Posted (edited)

For duelist and your backup gun you are screwed.

They just won't work.

 

You can switch category's IF it is allowed. Many places won't let you once you fire that first shot of the match.

 

Grab a friend and borrow one that is legal for duelist.

 

I am in the same boat. Stopped shooting a few years ago. Sold all my backup guns that would work.

Only have my main match pair. Wife shoots Blackhawks. So they won't work for Duelist.

So I would be down to hollering at a friend.

 

 

Why they keep voting to not allow them is beyond me. Just stupid in my opinion.

Only reason I have ever heard for not allowing them is "they don't look cowboy enough"

Edited by Anvil Al #59168
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Hmm, in nearly 20 years, I have never needed a backup gun.  But then again, I don't shoot Remmies. :D

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Lucky R. K. said:

I think you could use it but shots from that gun would not be counted.

No you would get a 10 second penalty for shooting out of category. Like Phantom said for two stages............... third time it's a SDQ

Edited by Rye Miles #13621

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I think category changes for good cause should be granted at the MD discretion.

 

One of the first examples I encountered is as follows. On the second stage of an 12-stage annual, I noticed that two shooters were using Black Hawks in FC.  The PM changed them to age based, where they were at a definite disadvantage shooting smoky.

 

In Bruce's case, I would change him to an age-based category. Any time a category change results in a disadvantage, such as these two examples, I think they are worthy of consideration.

 

If a change would result in an advantage for the shooter, I would not allow it.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Snakebite said:

Well, how wonderful, if we can switch Categories then I think I'll go to WR, shoot Elderstatesman with both hands and Smokeless for the first 11 stages, and then switch to Senior FC Duelist.  I'm sure that nobody would have a problem with that. If you are at a local monthly match, then just let him continue to shoot the gun with adjustable sights. THAT is a much better answer than allowing a category change in the middle of a match.

 

Under your scenario, not only would I deny said request, I'd do so emphatically (as in {insert popular Naval expletive here} NO!),, but why not allow a change that gave not only no advantage, but entailed a very likely disadvantage, i.e., from a duelist category to an age based one?  Getting proper equipment would be a better solution, but... that wasn't the question.

Edited by Griff

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Posted (edited)

BTW folks, the rules are:  Shooting out of category. e.g., Not wearing the correct items in Classic Cowboy or not making enough smoke in
B/P Categories (which would include using an adj sighted gun in a fixed sight category),  1st violation is a procedure, 2nd violation is SDQ, 3rd violation is MDQ.

Edited by Griff

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Griff said:

Under your scenario, not only would I deny said request, I'd do so emphatically (as in {insert popular Naval expletive here} NO!),, but why not allow a change that gave not only no advantage, but entailed a very likely disadvantage, i.e., from a duelist category to an age based one?  Getting proper equipment would be a better solution, but... that wasn't the question.

Griff - I'm pretty sure Snakebite was being uber facetious. :o:D

Edited by Yusta B.

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I'ma hopin' so... we've pretty much always seen eye-to-eye on stuff, but I dinna sse that "yankin' yer chain" smilie!  

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Yeah... I was indeed taking it to the max. It would have little effect at a monthly match, and it really wouldn't matter much to me. I was just basically quoting the rules. I would not allow it at a big match. So the guy is allowed to change categories... and then he goes on to knock someone else out of a buckle, SASS rules were not followed, and now the guy that gets knocked down a notch is not happy, and has every right to be unhappy. That's not right IMO. Borrowing a gun to get through the day would be my first choice at any match, that would not be breaking any rules. Of course there is the option of shooting the one gun and changing the cylinder or reloading that gun on the clock. That's also legal.  My old friend Tom Dudley Squat use to do that all the time. At a local monthly match it would be easiest and have the least consequences to just allow him to use the extra pistol with the adjustable sights.  That would have little effect on anyone. IMO, changing categories should be the last consideration, and to repeat, it really doesn't matter much at  monthly match., anything higher than that I would not be flexible. If I were there, I'd just give him the ammo and let him shoot one of my guns and continue.

 

Snakebite

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Quote

 

Progressive Penalty – Procedural for the first infraction, Stage Disqualification for the second infraction, Match Disqualification for the third infraction.  Example: failure to adhere to category requirements. 

...

Shooting out of category – failure to adhere to category-specific requirements/restrictions. 

 

SHB p.45

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9 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

P. 10 SHB

"

CATEGORY MATRIX

Above the “Base Categories” listed in this handbook, the local club monthly match and club

annual match level, all SASS recognized shooting categories may be offered by subdividing

by all factors; including age, gender, shooting style, and propellant. When breaking down all

style/costume categories, the regulations for the base category is to be applied first, then the

age limits. A full listing of all possible shooting category combinations is unavailable. The

breakdown examples below serve to provide a glimpse into the various possibilities:

- Gunfighter à Lady Senior Gunfighter à Lady Senior Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter.

- Duelist à Lady Duelist à Lady Senior Duelist à Lady Silver Senior Duelist.

"

Allie Mo,

is there such a thing as Frontiersmen Gunfighter 49er?

seriously,

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Thanks, next Saturday, at Riverbend, I'm going to start the catagory; Frontiersmen Gunfighter, 49er.

im sure to win this catagory !! LOL

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22 hours ago, Boomstick Bruce said:

here is my question. i know in duelist im restricted to fixed sights guns only. but what if halfway through a match one of my main guns breaks and i have to switch to my back up which has adjustable sites?

 

In this situation you could just use one pistol and reload it. It's not ideal, but keeps you within the rules.

 

Tully

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