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Where has all of the "fun stuff" gone?


Mustang Gregg

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Just now, meesterpaul said:

Did you leave out the team of runaway horses dragging a wagon down the street in front of you out on purpose? 

 

No, that would be in stage 2, I didn't want to spoil the surprise for everyone. :P

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1 hour ago, Deadeye George said:

Many of you have convinced me and you are absolutely right,  CAS is no longer any fun because it is all about speed and caters to fast shooters and they are no fun to shoot with anyway.  I have an idea how we can put some fun back into CAS matches and here would be my suggestion for a typical stage..........

 

First things first......  NO more timers, get rid of them - This is all about fun now, who cares how long it will take to complete a stage!  I wrote a sample stage where I think the MAJORITY of shooters will have a blast

 

At the beep, OOPS, sorry, no more timer so it'll just be... "Whenever you like to start, just raise your hand to let us know"

 

From the large toy box in the middle of the stage grab both the life size stuffed straw dummy (Sweet Nell) and the bowling ball size ball and chain and drag them both to position 1 where you will lock the ball and chain to your left ankle then toss Sweet Nell over your shoulder and climb up into the stage coach (watch for splinters) and engage the bad guy targets set at 20 yards (60 feet) with your rifle for 10 rounds then hop off the stage, cut the chain from your ankle with the hack saw hanging from the low hanging tree branch (or shoot the lock with your pistol with a maximum of three shots) then duck down and crawl 17' over to the saloon side door where you will enter the saloon to order a drink, get into a bar brawl then engage the 10 pistol targets set 6' apart and varying distances from from 9' to 26' away in front of the left bar window, a few feet right of the large cactus (not the small cactus) and just beyond the bale of hay.  Head back towards the stage (Don't forget to grab Sweet Nell) but on the way, stop by the bank (the gray building next to the train depot) and pick up the strong box full of gold (30 pounds of sand) then stop by the barber shop for a nice bath in the tub.  You have the option to engage the four shotgun targets (in any order) from either inside the tub using the strong box to steady your aim OR... hop out of the tub (with Sweet Nell) and sit in the barber chair where the barber will play a hand of "Texas hold 'em" with you.  If you win you can shoot the targets in any order, if you lose, you have to engage the shotgun targets 4-2-1-3.

 

So, whatcha think?  The only downside I can see is that the typical stage would be run in just under 5 minutes so a posse of 16 shooting six stages will run nearly 7 hours so a lunch (and possibly dinner) break is surely in order but getting home after dark will be well worth it 'cause we had fun for a change by golly!

 

"Bring back the good ole days" will be our rally cry and we'll bring in new shooters by the droves.

"With that biggo tongue in your cheek you look like you have two sacks of Red Man in there" could be the starting line for stage 3. Of course you could have everyone stuff two sacks of Red Man in and then all they COULD do was raise their hand to start. Another idea is to begin by shoeing a horse, harnessing it, hitching it to a wagon, driving to town to pick up some taters, flour, cornmeal and sugar. Come back, gather the eggs, milk the cow, build a fire, bake some cornbread, fry some taters, bake a cake, eat supper, take a nap, wake up and shoot. If you feed the spotters and don't wake 'em up, you're clean. :rolleyes::lol:

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On 12/17/2017 at 10:35 AM, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

However, I personally have experienced annuals where a top shooter (multi-time category winner at EOT) wrote scenarios that favored his skills. Examples, were small-far targets and a stage that had to be shot from the hip.  At one of his matches, I missed 34 targets and that was before my hand issues.

 

I have not experienced that type of thing frequently; but, believe it happens often enough to not be a myth.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

Allie - everything that could happen has likely happened at some time.

And sadly - simply being a skilled shooter (as has been proved time and time again) does not guarantee that they are honorable.

BUT...

 

I firmly believe the vast majority of my fellow Match Directors make a dedicated effort to specifically avoid setting matches to their advantage.

 

I know when anyone razzs me for shotgun heavy stages; my response is always,

"Seriously?  One of these days I am going to write and set a FAT guy beneficial, LEFT hand dominant, 97 shooting, Gunfighter sequence OVERLY friendly match"

And then I follow that up with, "Of course - I could set it to advantage every supposed skill set I have and would still lose to Quickly Downunder, Pecos Nick, Just Ace and Shooting Bull "

 

But even with my admittedly mid level skills - I take every opportunity to ensure that my matches and stages are as equitable to all as possible.

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2 hours ago, meesterpaul said:

ah!  I see. Then I won't ask about the attack of Apaches on horseback, the mine collapse or the barn fire yet. 

Don't forget the quicksand.

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  • 3 weeks later...

True I have only shot Cowboy Action for one year but at one match I commented to one of the old timers "wow, there must be 40 shooters for today's match" and he replied "we used to have over a hundred shooters".  Better shooters are always faster regardless of the stages but I am not sure that the quote below from this very thread will help grow our hobby.  

 

 "I've heard tons of the 'just there to have fun' crowd complaining about 'catering to the fast shooters'.  If it's that bad, you have feet, vote with them."

 

Regards

Chestnut louie

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There are plenty of venues for bare bones shooting. SASS is unique in its appeal to pure joy, socializing, utilizing vintage firearms and playing movies cowboy with costumes, gear and accouterments. Making it into a "stand and deliver" sport obviated its essential worth.

 

I shoot wart hog loads of .45 Colt and 10 gauge 3-1/2 shells. I love the fun of loud booms, flame, and loud smoke. Obviously, that precludes me from  winning the big matches but that's irrevelant.

 

NRA bullseye, IPSC and BPCR are a different fun. Let's not confuse the sports.

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I would enjoy seeing more moving targets at matches.  The train at EOT was a blast as well as more fliers.  El Dorado has some neat  walk ways where you shoot through doors. Winter Range has had them in the past.  I can do with out choking the chicken and stabbing brother John, especially if they are on the clock.  Is there enough interest in Western Three Gun?

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One thing I see, and noticed just over a short period of time, is the disappearance  of storylines for stages. Especially at monthlies, and lately even at some Annuals at many clubs.  I remember were each stage had a storyline to go with the stage. Then there became complaints about reading the story and to get on with the shooting. So, they stopped reading, then writing. Even shot at some clubs were no storyline, no shooters line, just say "shooters ready".

Good or bad, I have and still see some clubs allowing baseball caps and tennis shoes, and they're not new shooters. MT

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8 hours ago, Kirk James said:

I would enjoy seeing more moving targets at matches.  The train at EOT was a blast as well as more fliers.  El Dorado has some neat  walk ways where you shoot through doors. Winter Range has had them in the past.  I can do with out choking the chicken and stabbing brother John, especially if they are on the clock.  Is there enough interest in Western Three Gun?

Kirk,

the above is exactly why we at Eldorado made the decision to strongly differentiate our two annual shoots.

 

In years past; Dam Site and Eldorado were very similiar.  One just a smaller version of the other.  Both attempting to be modern style CAS intermixed with "some" of old style cowboy. 

While most liked our events.   Sometimes it seemed like a compromise; not exactly what either faction of shooter in the game was looking for.   

 

So...  We took a risk and made some changes.

Dam Site is now our Legacy shoot; where we incorporate some of the silliness of years past (chicken choking and stabbing and silly stories and randomness)

 

And that allows us to frame Eldorado as the more straightforward Run and Gun modern CAS event.

As match director; this requires me to  compromise less within either given match because we have alerted shooters to the ideology that each match will provide.

 

I don't have to remove a silliness in Dam Site to satisfy a certain percentage of shooters and likewise don't have to add  non shooting gags into Eldorado stages to fulfill an expectation.

 

Don't misunderstand; Eldorado will always have have some props and stories and Dam Site will always be big and fast.

But by taking the opportunity to create two very differently flavored matches; we believe we are improving both.

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55 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

 

So...  We took a risk and made some changes.

Dam Site is now our Legacy shoot; where we incorporate some of the silliness of years past (chicken choking and stabbing and silly stories and randomness)

 

 

 

Could you do me (and the folks on my posse) a favor and define that a bit better before the next match? The last time was one of the most enjoyable stages of my life but I got called for penalties I’d never even heard of. :(

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4 hours ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

Could you do me (and the folks on my posse) a favor and define that a bit better before the next match? The last time was one of the most enjoyable stages of my life but I got called for penalties I’d never even heard of. :(

 

Did you forget your pants, AGAIN? :lol:

Did you forget your hat, and blind the spotters, AGAIN? :P

OLG

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I guess the posses I shoot with would be considered "Olde School"

We have fast shooters, but even they enjoy our fun type starts and mid stage "events" : Throwing a dagger at a hay bale; holding a drink at the bar; throwing a "floozy" off your lap before engaging the targets; picking up "Lefty" after shooting part of the stage and dropping him in Wu's pig pen with the line "Here's another one for ya Wu! Hang Dai!; shooting a derringer into a card cheat (cardboard target) while seated playing poker, etc. 

All after the line and the beep.

Good Lord, we sure have fun. Can't wait to see what the boys have dreamed up over the winter and what the prop makers have put together!

 

HEY! I just noticed, this is my 1000 post on the WIRE! 

On Canadiangunnutz we get a goat; What do I get here? 

( I mean besides abuse)

Banane01.gif

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On 1/9/2018 at 2:34 PM, chestnut louie said:

True I have only shot Cowboy Action for one year but at one match I commented to one of the old timers "wow, there must be 40 shooters for today's match" and he replied "we used to have over a hundred shooters".  Better shooters are always faster regardless of the stages but I am not sure that the quote below from this very thread will help grow our hobby.  

 

 "I've heard tons of the 'just there to have fun' crowd complaining about 'catering to the fast shooters'.  If it's that bad, you have feet, vote with them."

 

Regards

Chestnut louie

You’re quoting me there Louie.

 

I think you misunderstood my post. I wasn’t suggesting that people should leave SASS if the didn’t like the way a particular match is run, I was suggesting they go to matches that fit the way they like to shoot. I don’t host big matches like Creeker, but I’ve done my best to run Doc Holidays for a while now.

 

Most matches the vast majority of the shooters are happy with the stages and storylines, but it’s not uncommon to have shooters complain about too much movement, too little movement, targets are to big, targets are to small, to close, to far.  Eventually you realize that no matter what you do there will be a small, sometimes vocal, minority that won’t like it.  There are multiple clubs around here, if you don’t like the way one is run go to another one that weekend, or better yet run one yourself, then you make the decisions.

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On 1/10/2018 at 1:09 AM, Kirk James said:

I would enjoy seeing more moving targets at matches.  The train at EOT was a blast as well as more fliers.  El Dorado has some neat  walk ways where you shoot through doors. Winter Range has had them in the past.  I can do with out choking the chicken and stabbing brother John, especially if they are on the clock.  Is there enough interest in Western Three Gun?

Seems W3G never really took off.  Ah well just show up at regular 3 gun with cowboy rather than tactical guns

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A match I used to attend had this bit of randomness built into it. Off the clock, you cut a deck of cards. The pistol targets were all either diamonds or clubs, and if you drew black you shot the black targets, if you drew red, you shot the red targets. Even this has gone because people got confused and couldn't just dump 10 shots. The objection isn't always about "on the clock" or not.

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The match directors have a lot to deal with. The extra steps necessary to try different things adds to their burden. It must be exasperating when you go through some extra steps and then hear complaints. One way of making it easier for them might be to generate ideas for stages that you can offer to them. If it's a stage idea that you have discussed with other people and there's a little bit of support for it that could make it easy for the match directors to incorporate it. It also gives them the freedom to respond to complainers by saying 'hey, some people wanted it'  or 'it was Tex' idea'. 

I guess we could start by asking match directors if they would like outside input.

 

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The answer above to only attend the  matches that you enjoy is sensible. There are posses near me that are no fun at all. There are others that are a hoot. I do not shoot at clubs utilizing IPSC style. I drive a few extra miles to the innovative ones.

 

Our posse likes the SASS fun. We are all NRA Bullseye competitors so we get plenty of both types of shooting. Yes, some of our SASS targets are a tad farther out there and a bit small but that's what we are used to shooting. We do have a few giant, close targets for fun to complement the smaller and more distant ones. That's what we like so that's what we shoot!!!!

 

Everyone to their own taste said the old lady as she kissed the cow.

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Creeker-That was a great way to accomplish those goals.  I will be back.  Kirk

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:-)   Do we want cowboy action shooting or IPSC with cowboy clothes?

 

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