Butter bars?

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

It is said that there is nothing more dangerous than a Second Lieutenant with a compass and a map.

 

is there a comparable remark about Ensigns?

[Badlands Bob #61228]

Ensigns are not given maps or a compass.

[Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663]

Saying I used when I was a SFC and CWO:

 

"Burning a Second Lieutenant is the next thing to child abuse."

[Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme]

2 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

It is said that there is nothing more dangerous than a Second Lieutenant with a compass and a map.

 

is there a comparable remark about Ensigns?

How about an Ensign with a sextant and a paddle?

[Pat Riot]

Ensigns are much better than 2nd Lieutenants in the other services because they are Navy.

 

...and then the fights started 

 

 

 

[J.D. Daily]

Does the military use magnetic compasses anymore?  My experience in 1969 at Ft Benning supports the premise.  I having been a boy scout had no difficulties navigating through the kudzoo infested pine forests of Columbus GA; while most of my fellow candidates just didn't get it.

[Utah Bob #35998]

1 hour ago, J.D. Daily said:

Does the military use magnetic compasses anymore?  My experience in 1969 at Ft Benning supports the premise.  I having been a boy scout had no difficulties navigating through the kudzoo infested pine forests of Columbus GA; while most of my fellow candidates just didn't get it.

Yes. The same basic lensatic compass, updated with tritium.

Because GPS doesn't always work.

http://olive-drab.com/od_soldiers_gear_compass_lensatic.php

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

14 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Yes. The same basic lensatic compass, updated with tritium.

Because GPS doesn't always work.

http://olive-drab.com/od_soldiers_gear_compass_lensatic.php

Ya just gotta love the old school stuff that has been proven time and again. 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

1 hour ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Yes. The same basic lensatic compass, updated with tritium.

Because GPS doesn't always work.

Ships' GPS in the Black Sea have had their GPS spoofed, when they get near Putin's residence, same happens near the Kremlin in Moscow, the fake GPS tells them they are near an airport. the intent is to mislead drones.

[Sedalia Dave]

5 hours ago, J.D. Daily said:

Does use magnetic compasses anymore?  My experience in 1969 at Ft Benning supports the premise.  I having been a boy scout had no difficulties navigating through the kudzoo infested pine forests of Columbus GA; while most of my fellow candidates just didn't get it.

Every US Navy and USAF airplane and helicopter has a wet compass. Works even if the rest of the electrical system fails.They are considered so important that the aircraft cannot fly without one that is fully functional.

[Trailrider #896]

I understand the military doesn't use Morse code anymore, either.  Not sure, but didn't the residents of the Hanoi Hilton communicate by tapping in code?  Or was that a special code they came up with?  Never had anything to do with Morse code since Boy Scouts and a little to read VORTAC signal identifiers when flying light planes. 

[Trailrider #896]

6 hours ago, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said:

Saying I used when I was a SFC and CWO:

 

"Burning a Second Lieutenant is the next thing to child abuse."

Attitudes toward O-1's depended on the attitude of the butter bar.  A 2LT or Ensign fresh out of "the academy" who acted like he/she knew it all would soon be put in his place one way or another by senior officers and especially by NCO's.  A butter bar that knew to ask for assistance of the NCO's would usually be helped to learn the job.  OTOH, occasionally you'd run into an NCO who treated virtually all the 2LT's he ran into with contempt, and would go out of his way to show it in front of other enlisted troops.  I had one TSgt who "took exception" to my simple request to have my enlisted troops have a written exam postponed so they could rest after a 20 hour dispatch to a missile site.  This NCO proceeded to mouth-off to me and about me and every other young officer, in front of my troops!  I simply couldn't let that pass, and told him, right then and there, if I ever heard him talk to me or another officer in that tone, we'd be seeing the squadron commander (a full bull colonel commanding the 600 man missile maintenance squadron)!  I never had any other problem with him.  I think he was getting short.  Virtually all the other staff NCO's with whom I worked were outstanding individuals and the backbone of the Air Force! 

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

I thought all Air Force officers were Colonel or above. 

[Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663]

10 minutes ago, Trailrider #896 said:

Attitudes toward O-1's depended on the attitude of the butter bar.  A 2LT or Ensign fresh out of "the academy" who acted like he/she knew it all would soon be put in his place one way or another by senior officers and especially by NCO's.  A butter bar that knew to ask for assistance of the NCO's would usually be helped to learn the job.  OTOH, occasionally you'd run into an NCO who treated virtually all the 2LT's he ran into with contempt, and would go out of his way to show it in front of other enlisted troops.  I had one TSgt who "took exception" to my simple request to have my enlisted troops have a written exam postponed so they could rest after a 20 hour dispatch to a missile site.  This NCO proceeded to mouth-off to me and about me and every other young officer, in front of my troops!  I simply couldn't let that pass, and told him, right then and there, if I ever heard him talk to me or another officer in that tone, we'd be seeing the squadron commander (a full bull colonel commanding the 600 man missile maintenance squadron)!  I never had any other problem with him.  I think he was getting short.  Virtually all the other staff NCO's with whom I worked were outstanding individuals and the backbone of the Air Force! 

Trailrider, you did right by bracing that NCO.  Most bullies will respect those who don't allow anyone bullying them.  And, there is a time when an officer has to remind, in no uncertain terms, an enlisted that they are the officer.  Never tolerate rude behavior--especially when you outrank them.

 

Sir, you did good.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

8 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Ensigns are much better than 2nd Lieutenants in the other services because they are Navy.

 

...and then the fights started 

 

And being on a ship, they can't get lost for too long.

 

 

[Pat Riot]

2 hours ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

 

Have you ever been at sea? 

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

7 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Have you ever been at sea? 

I have been lost. Does that count?

[Pat Riot]

26 minutes ago, Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 said:

I have been lost. Does that count?

Yep!...Ya made it back didn't cha?

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

45 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Have you ever been at sea? 

Does 7 days across the North Atlantic count?

[Pat Riot]

1 minute ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

Does 7 days across the North Atlantic count?

Not really...7 months, yes.

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

The three scariest things to hear in the Army...

 

When your platoon sergeant says, "Sir, you don't want to know."

 

When your instructor pilot says, "Watch this."

 

When a 2LT says, "It's been my experience..."

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

8 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Have you ever been at sea? 

I have. Several times deployed as a Marine on Navy ships. A man can certainly get turned around shipboard, but the ship is only so big, and eventually SOMEONE will tell you where you need to be. That''s why I say that they can't get lost for too long.

[Pat Riot]

3 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

I have. Several times deployed as a Marine on Navy ships. A man can certainly get turned around shipboard, but the ship is only so big, and eventually SOMEONE will tell you where you need to be. That''s why I say that they can't get lost for too long.

Ah, I see.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

11 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Yep!...Ya made it back didn't cha?

Score isn't in on that yet, Pat. 

[Sedalia Dave]

 

20 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

Does 7 days across the North Atlantic count?

 

20 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Not really...7 months, yes.

 

PR,

When you don't get lost it only takes seven days.  

[Pat Riot]

On 10/16/2017 at 6:23 PM, Sedalia Dave said:

 

 

 

PR,

When you don't get lost it only takes seven days.  

I was never lost at sea....confused maybe, but never lost....like the time our ship spent 5 months going around in circles waiting for a certain Bubblehead president to do something...

[Noz]

Every body gets a good laugh at the 2nd Lt but did you ever stop to think of the responsibility that is thrust upon them when they do not have the knowledge or training to handle it?  My signature at 3 months of experience was on a Battery motor pool and a Battalion Mess Hall. Multi thousands dollars.  We  learned by mistakes.  With a group of NCOs and superior officers that don't give a darn no wonder they have challenges.  They are set up by the system to fail.

I was very fortunate in that I had a Capt and a 1st Sgt that took pity on me and also wanted the unit to operate properly.  With their help I soon became a responsible officer.

The people that gave me a hard time just because they could found out that even butter bars have a memory.  When it became time that I could pass out assignments I got even.

 

I became S2 after some years of a nuclear capable 8" howitzer battalion.  All of my weapons assembly teams were headed by 2nd Lts.

[Utah Bob #35998]

I was fortunate in that my people were solid professionals. Was never disrespected to my face. I was tolerated, trained, and encouraged. Others were not so lucky.

I found that being a military officer is a lot like being a cop. I learned to keep my mouth shut at parties about my professions because everybody either had a Stupid 2nd Lt or Stupid Rookie Cop story that they needed to impart.

Over the years, I’ve heard em all. Most are seriously....shall we say enhanced?

[Barry Sloe]

I didn't have as much trouble with O-1s as with O-3s.  They've had two promotions and, therefore, know everything there is.

 

BS

[The Shoer 27979]

I had a real cool butter bar my last year in germany. He took care of us so we took care of him. I remember  one time topp was chewing his a$$ for something, with great athority he said to topp. I woke up one morning and out ranked ever f###### NCO in the Army now shut up and sit down

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

21 hours ago, Noz said:

Every body gets a good laugh at the 2nd Lt but did you ever stop to think of the responsibility that is thrust upon them when they do not have the knowledge or training to handle it?  My signature at 3 months of experience was on a Battery motor pool and a Battalion Mess Hall. Multi thousands dollars.  We  learned by mistakes.  With a group of NCOs and superior officers that don't give a darn no wonder they have challenges.  They are set up by the system to fail.

I was very fortunate in that I had a Capt and a 1st Sgt that took pity on me and also wanted the unit to operate properly.  With their help I soon became a responsible officer.

The people that gave me a hard time just because they could found out that even butter bars have a memory.  When it became time that I could pass out assignments I got even.

I was 23 and signed on the line for five helicopters and support equipment plus a platoon of soldiers and pilots.  Fortunately, I was surrounded by strong soldiers, NCOs, and warrant officers who helped forge us into the brigade's best.

 

The down side of my unit was, believe it or not, the toxic culture created by the commissioned officers.  I'd never seen so much pettiness, back stabbing, and in-fighting as existed among those who were allegedly in charge.  The senior warrants and NCOs, some of whom were Vietnam vets, were truly baffled by what they saw.  Fortunately, they looked out for the lieutenants and did their best to train us in the right way to lead and be technically/tactically competent.

[Noz]

2 hours ago, The Shoer 27979 said:

I had a real cool butter bar my last year in germany. He took care of us so we took care of him. I remember  one time topp was chewing his a$$ for something, with great athority he said to topp. I woke up one morning and out ranked ever f###### NCO in the Army now shut up and sit down

I love it!

One of our 2nd Johns came into the unit and immediately began working the enlisted people to suit his model.  They bitched about it for a while before they learned he was an OCS product, had 14 years of service and his highest rank had been E-7.

[Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663]

There seemed to be only two types of West Pointers; damned good ones and damned sorry ones.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Two butter bars with 45 minutes time in grade. Sep '67.

 

 

 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

4 hours ago, Noz said:

I love it!

One of our 2nd Johns came into the unit and immediately began working the enlisted people to suit his model.  They bitched about it for a while before they learned he was an OCS product, had 14 years of service and his highest rank had been E-7.

 

4 hours ago, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said:

There seemed to be only two types of West Pointers; damned good ones and damned sorry ones.

Same thing with Mustangs.