WW-II weapon systems trade-offs?

[Dusty Sometimes]

I'm a WW-II European history nut, especially since I was in the 37th Armor Regt in Vilseck, Bavaria on active duty. So I thought of an interesting hypothetical.... If you were an Allied and an Axis general officer, would you trade any of your weapon systems for what the other side had? To make it simple, I'll contain it to hand held pistols, rifles, MGs, tanks and vehicles. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts?

 

So, what's your preference, if you could field the perfect 1940s military?

 

Colt 1911 or Luger 9mm?

Thompson or MP-44?

Garand or Mauser?

M2 .50 cal or MG-42?

Jeep or Kubelwagen?

Sherman or Panther/Tiger?

Pershing or King Tiger?

 

Maybe the answer is obvious and not open to debate?

 

Colt 1911 Bigger caliber

Thompson Bigger caliber

Garand Rapid fire

MG-44 Rapid fire

Jeep More flexible

Panther Better armor and main gun

Pershing More maneuverable

 

What's your thoughts?

[Alpo]

Why are you comparing a SMG (Thompson) with an Assault Rifle (MP44 - Sturmgewehr 44)?

[Utah Bob #35998]

I assume he meant MP40.

[Utah Bob #35998]

M2 is a heavy machine gun. No comparison to the MG42. MG 42 was superior to the 1919 30 cal.

Jeep better than the k wagen

Lugers are not particularly reliable as a combat weapon.

Garand was superior to all other battle rifles.

The quality of tanks was not as important as the quantity.

[Badlands Bob #61228]

I'll take 100 Shermans to 10 Tigers.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

We won. "nuff said.

[Dantankerous]

I'll take 100 Shermans to 10 Tigers.

 

That sounds even. Historically speaking.

 

 

 

It is my understanding that Shermans (Ronsons) got their arses handed to them way too often. Then in 1944 or so the Sherman got upgraded armor and a main battle gun that made a hefty difference.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

I'd stay to the weapons on the left. I'm familiar with and have experience with all but the tanks.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

How about anti-tank weapons? Bazooka vs Panzerfaust?

[Ethan Cord]

The Nazi counterpart to the Garand was the Gewehr 41 and 43 series of semi auto battle rifles. As Utah Bob has already stated, the Garand had no equal on the battlefield.

[Noz]

Vilseck, Bavaria on active duty? I weep for you. At least I had Bamberg as a duty station.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Vilseck, Bavaria on active duty? I weep for you. At least I had Bamberg as a duty station.

I spent a week in Vilseck once. Seemed like a month.

And folks wore weird boots.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Gablingen Kasern, Metropolitan hub of Bavaria. We had a POL dump and a drop zone, not to mention a few

bombed out hangers.

 

[twelve mile REB]

1911 just a much better platform and still in use as a combat arm

 

MP 44 Apples to Oranges

 

Garand

 

M-2 Still in use as a combat arm

 

Jeep

 

neither Massed the Sherman plus it was diesel rather than gas

 

Pershing The Tiger, Too heavy, too slow, too few and also gas powered

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Maybe I am mistaken, I have been before, and I know very little about tanks,

But I thought the Sherman was gas powered and the tiger was Diesel?

Pershings were out classed because of their fixed gun mount and were

also gas powered.

[Sedalia Dave]

All the research I have ever done states that during WWII all German tanks utilized gasoline power plants.

 

In general American tank engines produced more torque and horsepower than German tanks. In some cases significantly more.

 

German Tanks were powered by either a 6 or 12 cylinder Maybach engine. Czechoslovakian built tanks were powered by a 6 cylinder engine of a Czechoslovakian design.

 

The Sherman and Pershing tanks were also gasoline powered. The Sherman M4 and M4A1 were powered by a Continental R975 C1 9 cylinder Radial engine, the M4A3 used the Ford GAA V-8 engine, and the M4A4 was outfitted with a Chrysler A57 multibank 30 cylinder engine. Some M4A3's were also outfitted with the A57.

 

The M4A2 and M4A6 were unique in that they were powered by diesel engines. The M4A2 had a GM 6046 12 cylinder engine and the M4A6 was powered by a Caterpillar D200A 9 cylinder radial.

 

Interesting trivia

 

The D200A is based on the Wright R-1820 aircraft engine but is significantly heavier than its airborne cousin.

 

The Chrysler A57 is actually five 250 cu in Chrysler in line 6 cyl engines set up around a central drive shaft. Each engine was coupled to the central shaft via a gear. making the final drive resemble a sun gear.

 

The GM6046 consisted of two GM 6-71 inline 6 cyl 2 stroke engines set side by side and connected to a common output shaft via individual clutches. This allowed for each engine to be individually decoupled from the output shaft.

 

The Ford GAA V-8 was an all aluminum engine

[Yellowhouse Sam # 25171]

I thought the main German pistol during WW2 was the P38....not the Luger.

[twelve mile REB]

Thanks a little misinformation on my part gas vs diesel

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

After reading this I looked for information about the Soviet tanks. The latest of which, the T34 and KV were far superior to the Panzer. They were a surprise to the German forces in Operation Barbarosa.

 

Wikipedia says, in the beginning of the war, 15% of the T34s were lost due to combat and 85% were non combat losses. Presumably the Russkiys ironed out the bugs later. I didn't read further.

 

But the larger size of the T34 and KV tanks influenced the development of the Tiger and Panther tanks.

[Tom Bullweed]

American ingenuity and ever-growing industrial output over Japanese technology that remianed the same through the war and was hampered by loss of people and resources plus Germany ingenuity that kept being bombed to smitherines by Lancasters, Flying Fortresses and Liberators.

[Sedalia Dave]

Thanks a little misinformation on my part gas vs diesel

I only discovered the myth of German tanks all having diesels recently. I think this myth was started and perpetuated by Hollyweird.

 

Hitler wanted diesels because of the fuel supply constraints of the war but material shortages coupled with the lack of time needed to design and build new diesels meant that they never materialized. Oddly the same need to rush tanks into the war is what determined the power plants that were installed into US tanks.

 

The original R975 started out as an aircraft engine. Same is true of the Ford GAA V8. It was originally developed as a V12 aircraft engine but was never adopted by the military. The cylinder count was reduced from 12 to 8 so that it could be adapted to the Sherman and relieve the shortage of R975 engines.

 

The M-18 Hellcat was also powered by by the R975. Due to its relatively light gross weight it was the fastest tank ever produced until the M-1 Abrams many decades later.

 

The A57 came about because it only required minimal tooling changes to produce where as a new design would have taken much longer to design and tool up for. Same for the GM6046. The 6-71 was an existing design that was made more powerful be mounting 2 on a common chassis.

[Cat Brules]

I think the smg comparison should be between the MP40 and the M2 ("Grease Gun"), even though the cartridge comparison is .45acp vs. 9mm Luger.

 

The MG42 was an innovative machine gun. Sometimes called "Hitler's Zipper," due to its high rate of fire, the MG42 design features influenced Kalashnikov in his design of the AK and later, influenced the design of the US M60 machine gun.

[Steel-eye Steve SASS #40674]

The MG42 was an innovative machine gun. Sometimes called "Hitler's Zipper," due to its high rate of fire, the MG42 design features influenced Kalashnikov in his design of the AK and later, influenced the design of the US M60 machine gun.

The MG42 was indeed an innovative design and still in general issue chambered in 7.62 NATO as the MG3. The US M60 took the belt feed mechanism of the MG42 and married to the gas system of the German parachutist's rifle, the FG42 which was in turn copied from the Lewis gun. While there is much debate on how much the STG44 influenced Kalashnikov, I don't see where the MG42 influence is in the AK47/AKM design save for the use of stampings. You could make an argument that the use of rollers in the MG42 influenced the Spanish-West German CETME/G3 design.