Attica Jack #23953 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 There has been some discussion about the dropped round rule. A dropped round is a dead round. This is a good rule, and it is all about safety, safety for you and me, and others. It doesn't matter if you or I, can safely retrieve and pick up a dropped round, but can every shooter pick it up safely, without endangering others, and the answer is NO! Our sport/game involves shooting live ammo, and these rules are there to make our sport as safe as possible. I, and probably you, have been to a match, and have a seasoned shooter get MDQ, because of a accidental discharge within 10 feet, this is a very dangerous situation and a MDQ is the best way to deal with it. Anyone, can make a mistake, and a mistake in our sport could result in serious injury or death. As for the 170 rule, it seems that some people have an idea that this rule is there as a way to slow or impede a crossdraw shooter, it is not. The 170 rule is there to protect everyone, in case a shooter, has his finger on the trigger of a cocked firearm and the gun catches on the holster and a accidental discharge goes into the people behind the firing line. I have been in law enforcement for over 40 years, and I have seen way to many people killed or maimed because of an accident discharge of a firearm. My advice to anyone that wants to circumvent ANY safety rule, is find another way to knock some time off of your E.T. for a stage. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Sorry Jack, I disagree. The dropped round is almost always a shotgun shell, although it can be a jacked rifle round. If the round can be safely retrieved without breaking any safety rules.....why have the subjective penalty. Like most folks, I don't want to incur a bullet wound. IMO, other new rules have made this more of a possibility than retrieving a dead round. That being said.....if we were to eliminate all possible if's and buts we'd would be shooting lasers or cap guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, January 22, 2015 - Adds nothing but an insult. Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, January 22, 2015 - Adds nothing but an insult. Wow...and unfortunately you vote. Link to comment
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Interesting opinion. ..for which I completely disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Thought this horse was just about beat to death already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kid Sopris, Regulator, #3290 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Is Dr. Pohl in the house ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Shoot, I feel like Royalty when someone picks up my dropped rounds. Hey buddy, while ur down there, could you polish up my boots? Take the dog for a walk? Fetch the paper? OK, just get the SG shell and I'll see ya at the ULT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 double tap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 There has been some discussion about the dropped round rule. A dropped round is a dead round. This is a good rule, and it is all about safety, safety for you and me, and others. It doesn't matter if you or I, can safely retrieve and pick up a dropped round, but can every shooter pick it up safely, without endangering others, and the answer is NO! Our sport/game involves shooting live ammo, and these rules are there to make our sport as safe as possible. I, and probably you, have been to a match, and have a seasoned shooter get MDQ, because of a accidental discharge within 10 feet, this is a very dangerous situation and a MDQ is the best way to deal with it. Anyone, can make a mistake, and a mistake in our sport could result in serious injury or death. As for the 170 rule, it seems that some people have an idea that this rule is there as a way to slow or impede a crossdraw shooter, it is not. The 170 rule is there to protect everyone, in case a shooter, has his finger on the trigger of a cocked firearm and the gun catches on the holster and a accidental discharge goes into the people behind the firing line. I have been in law enforcement for over 40 years, and I have seen way to many people killed or maimed because of an accident discharge of a firearm. My advice to anyone that wants to circumvent ANY safety rule, is find another way to knock some time off of your E.T. for a stage. Just my opinion. Yeah , I think you need to read the other threads on this subject, I've seen a lot of folks pick up dropped rds never once did i see anyone come close to breaking 170 doing it. they were usually told not to use it so act of doing it was already done they just wasted their time doing so and they usually didn't receive penalty msv because rule is never enforced they way is suppost to be, if you move the dropped rd your suppost to get penalty msv.BUT you can bend over touch it , whatever you want without penalty just dont move it and your ok no penalty so what actual good is rule, if you can do everything up to that point, how does it make us safer ? I'm sure Rule was probably put into place to keep folks from breaking 170, but what it does is causes inconsistent calls at matches and doesnt do anything for safety. Regards AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attica Jack #23953 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 Rules is rules, if they change it, I can live by that, if they leave in the same, no problem either. I just shoot to have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Rules is rules, if they change it, I can live by that, if they leave in the same, no problem either. I just shoot to have fun. Me and my friends. ..All 2 of them...shoot for the pure agony of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Me and my friends. ..All 2 of them...shoot for the pure agony of it. Yeah , I have to force myself to go , me and my pards were having a terrible time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt McCloud, SASS #65003L Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Hey Pard! You have to remember it is Winter for some of us and and it is the SASS Wire. Rest assured when we get back out and shooting I will spot when your shooting and make sure you follow the rules.... whatever they may be!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Could NOT disagree more with the OP's post. I too carried a badge-What you see in SASS, and then on the 'street'-ain't the same world. Why, would you even make that comparison? OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twelve mile REB Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Me and my friends. ..All 2 of them...shoot for the pure agony of it.Hey I know one who's the other guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Me and my friends. ..All 2 of them...shoot for the pure agony of it. Hey I know one who's the other guy? Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attica Jack #23953 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 OLG Not comparing, just saying I and you have seen the results of careless gun handling. We play a game with live ammo. I also agree that a dropped round, staying on the table can be retrieved safely, but one on the ground should be called DEAD. Perhaps next year, with more lobbying that rule can be changed, but now, it is as it stands, a dropped round is a dead round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 OLG Not comparing, just saying I and you have seen the results of careless gun handling. We play a game with live ammo. I also agree that a dropped round, staying on the table can be retrieved safely, but one on the ground should be called DEAD. Perhaps next year, with more lobbying that rule can be changed, but now, it is as it stands, a dropped round is a dead round. You're contradicting your original post... Micromanaging safety is a great way to make life in general extraordinarily restrictive and boring. Cheers! Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Me. Me 2- --------- AJ if it wasn't a comparison-Why did you post it then? " I have been in law enforcement for over 40 years, and I have seen way to many people killed or maimed because of an accident discharge of a firearm." OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Me and my friends. ..All 2 of them...shoot for the pure agony of it. Wait…...You actually have 2 friends??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 So let's review. Say I come to the line and place 6 shotgun shells in a box, because the stage instructions say that is what I am supposed to do. I go to load my SG and drop two shells. I can, by the rules, retrieve one or both if they fall back to where they were staged, in the box. However, if one or both fall to the table just outside of the box, said retrieval creates a dangerous scenario and is to be penalized. I still don't get it....................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attica Jack #23953 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 This is so much fun.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 You're contradicting your original post... Micromanaging safety is a great way to make life in general extraordinarily restrictive and boring. Cheers! Phantom I've been a safety instructor of one form or another for the past 25 years and I can do you one better, micromanaging safety has been know to CAUSE safety problems. Simply saying "It's for safety" isn't a good enough reason to implement a new rule. First and foremost you have to make darn sure there's a problem. Fixing what ain't broke is not the way to make things better. After you establish a problem actually exists you develop possible solutions. That means specific, targeted fixes, not just a thick coat of whitewash over the whole thing. Next step is to implement one fix at a time and see if it really does fix the problem. If that fix doesn't work, try a different one. Keep doing that until the problem goes away. What's all that mean? It means that, in my ever so humble opinion, we need to see if we have a problem that needs to be fixed. What's the possible problem? Whether or not retrieving a dropped round really does cause a significant enough safety issue to establish a rule against it. So far the answer from above has been yes, therefore we have a rule against it. Now let's go shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COLORADO JACKSON Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Me and my friends. ..All 2 of them...shoot for the pure agony of it. I HOPE I AM INCLUDED IN THE 2!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel1234 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, January 23, 2015 - spam Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, January 23, 2015 - spam hi I will not be able to answer your question right now as i am not having any knowledgwabout this field.But you will get lot of things and all the knowledge about classifieds here. .......... top ten classified website Link to comment
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Fixing what ain't broke is not the way to make things better. After you establish a problem actually exists you develop possible solutions. That means specific, targeted fixes, not just a thick coat of whitewash over the whole thing. Next step is to implement one fix at a time and see if it really does fix the problem. If that fix doesn't work, try a different one. Keep doing that until the problem goes away. Oh Yeah? So how do you explain OSHA and MSHA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attica Jack #23953 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 Phantom....I am not contradicting myself. The present rule states, that a dropped round is a dead round. Can a dropped round be retrieved safely by all shooters? That answer is No. The rule, as written now just states a dropped round, period That dropped round could be on the table, stage prop, or on the ground. The rule needs to be re-written or amended. IE; a dropped round that lands on a table, stage prop or anything that is above waist level, that can be retrieved safely without breaking the 170 rule, can be retrieved without any penalty, any round that has been dropped, that is below waist level, is a DEAD round, and cannot be retrieved. Something like that should make everyone happy. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston CAS Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 By that logic no new shooters can ever be allowed since not every one is perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Simple statement..... A shooter may retrieve dropped or ejected rounds. If the shooter violates any safety rules then they suffer the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldust Dan, SASS #2631Life Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Simple statement..... A shooter may retrieve dropped or ejected rounds. If the shooter violates any safety rules then they suffer the consequences. Can I get an AMEN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Oh Yeah? So how do you explain OSHA and MSHA? I don't. Thems is gubmint programs. There's no explains those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Hmmm this hasn't caused us any wild unsafe acts in Wild Bunch.......and we're using that scarey simi-auto and fully stoked 1897 We really can chew gum and walk at the same time 8. Ammunition or magazines dropped or “ejected” by a shooter during the course of loading or reloading any firearm during the stage may be recovered and used 8. Safe gun handling is the shooter’s responsibility. The 170-degree safety rule is in effect. Jefro Relax-Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I love safety rules that are put in place to prevent safety violations...like the one where shooters at the loading table cannot holster their revolvers until they are called to the line. Don't want to have anyone get SDQ'd for leaving the loading table with loaded revolvers. Same idear with the dropped round rule...don't want anyone to get SDQ'd for breaking the 170... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attica Jack #23953 Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 Steeldust, without the stipulation, that if the round is on the ground, it cannot be retrieved, someone would be their hands and knees trying to retrieve a round that is on the ground and under a prop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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