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Safety rules


Attica Jack  #23953

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There has been some discussion about the dropped round rule. A dropped round is a dead round. This is a good rule, and it is all about safety, safety for you and me, and others. It doesn't matter if you or I, can safely retrieve and pick up a dropped round, but can every shooter pick it up safely, without endangering others, and the answer is NO! Our sport/game involves shooting live ammo, and these rules are there to make our sport as safe as possible. I, and probably you, have been to a match, and have a seasoned shooter get MDQ, because of a accidental discharge within 10 feet, this is a very dangerous situation and a MDQ is the best way to deal with it. Anyone, can make a mistake, and a mistake in our sport could result in serious injury or death. As for the 170 rule, it seems that some people have an idea that this rule is there as a way to slow or impede a crossdraw shooter, it is not. The 170 rule is there to protect everyone, in case a shooter, has his finger on the trigger of a cocked firearm and the gun catches on the holster and a accidental discharge goes into the people behind the firing line. I have been in law enforcement for over 40 years, and I have seen way to many people killed or maimed because of an accident discharge of a firearm. My advice to anyone that wants to circumvent ANY safety rule, is find another way to knock some time off of your E.T. for a stage. Just my opinion.

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Sorry Jack, I disagree.

 

The dropped round is almost always a shotgun shell, although it can be a jacked rifle round. If the round can be safely retrieved without breaking any safety rules.....why have the subjective penalty.

 

Like most folks, I don't want to incur a bullet wound. IMO, other new rules have made this more of a possibility than retrieving a dead round. That being said.....if we were to eliminate all possible if's and buts we'd would be shooting lasers or cap guns.

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There has been some discussion about the dropped round rule. A dropped round is a dead round. This is a good rule, and it is all about safety, safety for you and me, and others. It doesn't matter if you or I, can safely retrieve and pick up a dropped round, but can every shooter pick it up safely, without endangering others, and the answer is NO! Our sport/game involves shooting live ammo, and these rules are there to make our sport as safe as possible. I, and probably you, have been to a match, and have a seasoned shooter get MDQ, because of a accidental discharge within 10 feet, this is a very dangerous situation and a MDQ is the best way to deal with it. Anyone, can make a mistake, and a mistake in our sport could result in serious injury or death. As for the 170 rule, it seems that some people have an idea that this rule is there as a way to slow or impede a crossdraw shooter, it is not. The 170 rule is there to protect everyone, in case a shooter, has his finger on the trigger of a cocked firearm and the gun catches on the holster and a accidental discharge goes into the people behind the firing line. I have been in law enforcement for over 40 years, and I have seen way to many people killed or maimed because of an accident discharge of a firearm. My advice to anyone that wants to circumvent ANY safety rule, is find another way to knock some time off of your E.T. for a stage. Just my opinion.

 

 

Yeah , I think you need to read the other threads on this subject, I've seen a lot of folks pick up dropped rds never once did i see anyone come close to breaking 170 doing it. they were usually told not to use it so act of doing it was already done they just wasted their time doing so and they usually didn't receive penalty msv because rule is never enforced they way is suppost to be, if you move the dropped rd your suppost to get penalty msv.BUT you can bend over touch it , whatever you want without penalty just dont move it and your ok no penalty so what actual good is rule, if you can do everything up to that point, how does it make us safer ?

 

I'm sure Rule was probably put into place to keep folks from breaking 170, but what it does is causes inconsistent calls at matches and doesnt do anything for safety.

 

 

Regards AO

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Rules is rules, if they change it, I can live by that, if they leave in the same, no problem either. I just shoot to have fun.

Me and my friends. ..All 2 of them...shoot for the pure agony of it.

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Hey Pard! You have to remember it is Winter for some of us and and it is the SASS Wire. Rest assured when we get back out and shooting I will spot when your shooting and make sure you follow the rules.... whatever they may be!!!!!!

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Me and my friends. ..All 2 of them...shoot for the pure agony of it.

Hey I know one who's the other guy
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Me and my friends. ..All 2 of them...shoot for the pure agony of it.

Hey I know one who's the other guy?

 

Me.

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OLG Not comparing, just saying I and you have seen the results of careless gun handling. We play a game with live ammo. I also agree that a dropped round, staying on the table can be retrieved safely, but one on the ground should be called DEAD. Perhaps next year, with more lobbying that rule can be changed, but now, it is as it stands, a dropped round is a dead round.

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OLG Not comparing, just saying I and you have seen the results of careless gun handling. We play a game with live ammo. I also agree that a dropped round, staying on the table can be retrieved safely, but one on the ground should be called DEAD. Perhaps next year, with more lobbying that rule can be changed, but now, it is as it stands, a dropped round is a dead round.

You're contradicting your original post...

 

Micromanaging safety is a great way to make life in general extraordinarily restrictive and boring.

 

Cheers!

 

Phantom

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Me.

Me 2-

---------

AJ if it wasn't a comparison-Why did you post it then?

" I have been in law enforcement for over 40 years, and I have seen way to many people killed or maimed because of an accident discharge of a firearm."

OLG

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Me and my friends. ..All 2 of them...shoot for the pure agony of it.

Wait…...You actually have 2 friends??? :P:P:lol:

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So let's review.

 

Say I come to the line and place 6 shotgun shells in a box, because the stage instructions say that is what I am supposed to do. I go to load my SG and drop two shells. I can, by the rules, retrieve one or both if they fall back to where they were staged, in the box. However, if one or both fall to the table just outside of the box, said retrieval creates a dangerous scenario and is to be penalized. I still don't get it.......................

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You're contradicting your original post...

 

Micromanaging safety is a great way to make life in general extraordinarily restrictive and boring.

 

Cheers!

 

Phantom

 

I've been a safety instructor of one form or another for the past 25 years and I can do you one better, micromanaging safety has been know to CAUSE safety problems. Simply saying "It's for safety" isn't a good enough reason to implement a new rule. First and foremost you have to make darn sure there's a problem. Fixing what ain't broke is not the way to make things better. After you establish a problem actually exists you develop possible solutions. That means specific, targeted fixes, not just a thick coat of whitewash over the whole thing. Next step is to implement one fix at a time and see if it really does fix the problem. If that fix doesn't work, try a different one. Keep doing that until the problem goes away.

 

What's all that mean? It means that, in my ever so humble opinion, we need to see if we have a problem that needs to be fixed. What's the possible problem? Whether or not retrieving a dropped round really does cause a significant enough safety issue to establish a rule against it. So far the answer from above has been yes, therefore we have a rule against it.

 

Now let's go shoot. :)

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Me and my friends. ..All 2 of them...shoot for the pure agony of it.

I HOPE I AM INCLUDED IN THE 2!!

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Fixing what ain't broke is not the way to make things better. After you establish a problem actually exists you develop possible solutions. That means specific, targeted fixes, not just a thick coat of whitewash over the whole thing. Next step is to implement one fix at a time and see if it really does fix the problem. If that fix doesn't work, try a different one. Keep doing that until the problem goes away.

 

 

 

Oh Yeah? So how do you explain OSHA and MSHA?

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Phantom....I am not contradicting myself. The present rule states, that a dropped round is a dead round. Can a dropped round be retrieved safely by all shooters? That answer is No. The rule, as written now just states a dropped round, period That dropped round could be on the table, stage prop, or on the ground. The rule needs to be re-written or amended. IE; a dropped round that lands on a table, stage prop or anything that is above waist level, that can be retrieved safely without breaking the 170 rule, can be retrieved without any penalty, any round that has been dropped, that is below waist level, is a DEAD round, and cannot be retrieved. Something like that should make everyone happy. Enjoy.

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Simple statement.....

A shooter may retrieve dropped or ejected rounds.

 

If the shooter violates any safety rules then they suffer the consequences.

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Hmmm :unsure: this hasn't caused us any wild unsafe acts in Wild Bunch.......and we're using that scarey simi-auto and fully stoked 1897 :o We really can chew gum and walk at the same time ;)

 

8. Ammunition or magazines dropped or “ejected” by a shooter during the course of

loading or reloading any firearm during the stage may be recovered and used

 

8. Safe gun handling is the shooter’s responsibility. The 170-degree safety rule is

 

in effect.

 

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

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I love safety rules that are put in place to prevent safety violations...like the one where shooters at the loading table cannot holster their revolvers until they are called to the line. Don't want to have anyone get SDQ'd for leaving the loading table with loaded revolvers.

 

Same idear with the dropped round rule...don't want anyone to get SDQ'd for breaking the 170...

 

:wacko:

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