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Ace_of_Hearts

B-Western - Your thoughts on changes

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You are incorrect, sir. Bling assumes your attire must glitter in the sun. Not true.

 

 

Ass U Me....away....to us Classic Cowboys all y'all are blinging the daylights outta our prairies. All that glitters in the sun doesn't sparkle in my eyes.

 

I'm just sayin that the rules need to be simple enough for a RO to call NEXT SHOOTER without having to refer to the rule book.

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For crying out loud

Any category will have minimum requirements

Pick one, and meet or exceed those requirements, shoot, make friends, have fun

 

Minimalist will almost always remain minimalist

Just enforce the minimum when it is required

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Has anyone here bothered to check out the quintessential BW website?
That is MY source for TRUE BW info...and it seems to go crosswise with what some of y'all are preachin'.

 

Stage/rodeo/personal appearance outfits seem to be what the founder of the category had in mind....rather than those worn by the main characters in the actual MOVIES themselves...

one suggestion has been to rename the category to reflect the "fancy/flashy" aspect of the original concept.

 

Right now some of "us" are consulting with a number of experts on the issue.

All reasonable suggestions are being taken under consideration.

 

Another concern that has already been mentioned is having the COSTUME CONTESTS reflect the rules for the SHOOTING categories that require certain items to be worn (BW & Classic).

That is one of the issues that 'inspired' a closer look at the categories themselves.

 

 

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Just an observation since I don't shoot in a "costume category," but why would someone want to shoot B Western or Classic Cowboy and then try to do the absolute minimum possible to qualify for that category? Seems like the people that enjoy these categories get part of their enjoyment from the costuming.

Out here a shooter, who was fast but not fast enough, decided to category shop until he found one he "might" win. He's the photo example Allie Mo gave of minimal blue chambray shirt, no belt (shirt is untucked because he doesn't wear belts and wants to hide the fact (his words)).

So, in this case, it wasn't lack of finances, it was lack of integrity.

The Cadillac is more important than the Category.

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Another concern that has already been mentioned is having the COSTUME CONTESTS reflect the rules for the SHOOTING categories that require certain items to be worn (BW & Classic).

That is one of the issues that 'inspired' a closer look at the categories themselves.

 

 

Seems simple and reasonable that a SASS function that has B-Western as a COSTUME CONTEST should require same elements as for SHOOTING

 

BV

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Out here a shooter, who was fast but not fast enough, decided to category shop until he found one he "might" win. He's the photo example Allie Mo gave of minimal blue chambray shirt, no belt (shirt is untucked because he doesn't wear belts and wants to hide the fact (his words)).

So, in this case, it wasn't lack of finances, it was lack of integrity.

The Cadillac is more important than the Category.

 

 

Think everyone would agree that those need to be called out and ran out.

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Think everyone would agree that those need to be called out and ran out.

 

Yup.. Sounds like someone who is not in compliance with the current rules.

 

  • Pants must be worn with a belt.

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Think everyone would agree that those need to be called out and ran out.

He is an example of someone I shot with and never would have dreamed he shot BW until awards. He looked just like Ramrod described.That has happened more than once. Once it was a lady with lace up "Ropers." She'd overlooked the boot requirement. When she found out they were not in compliance, she immediately bought new boots. That is integrity.

 

Al, I did call him out when I saw him wearing the same thing at our State match. Unfortunately, I was not on his posse and it was after Day 2.

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PS He is what piqued my interest in getting some sort of uniform compliance in the category. Geez where I have I heard that before. It's okay to discuss gun/smoke... rules that are not uniformly applied. However, mention costumes and you are vilified.

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Guest Cinch, SASS#29433

In one of the posts on the first page, someone stated that this was an "American Cowboy" category and that only "Gene and Roy and Hoppy" were acceptable as model guidelines for the category!!

 

REALLY???

 

You're ignoring the Cisco Kid and Zorro and Sgt. Preston of the RCMP?? Dale Evans wore loose fitting "señorita" blouses in some of her movies with Roy but you say that's not B-Western?? S.A.S.S. is world wide!! These are, or were, true B-Western shows! A very legitimate part of the genre!! These "My way or the highway" ideas are just plain wrong!!! You are free and welcome to do it any way you want to within the rules as they are written so why can't others do the same???

 

Cisco and company never packed a Marlin!! And folks are arguing over trivial costume... stuff? ;)

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He is an example of someone I shot with and never would have dreamed he shot BW until awards. He looked just like Ramrod described.That has happened more than once. Once it was a lady with lace up "Ropers." She'd overlooked the boot requirement. When she found out they were not in compliance, she immediately bought new boots. That is integrity.

 

Al, I did call him out when I saw him wearing the same thing at our State match. Unfortunately, I was not on his posse and it was after Day 2.

 

 

That's a case where the MD should make him switch category's or MDQ him.

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I'm all for rules that make for uniform compliance.

 

I'm just saying that folks might want to let go of some of their biases so that the rules can be simple...and therefore simple to police.

 

Phantom

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Cisco and company never packed a Marlin!! And folks are arguing over trivial costume... stuff? ;)

I haven't watched every B-Western movie ever made, but I don't recall Gene or Roy ever handling a Marlin either. If that's what you're basing it on then you might suggest that everyone be restricted to a '92!! :wacko:

 

AND YOU"RE RIGHT!! The costume stuff for the most part is VERY trivial!! <_<<_<

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That's a case where the MD should make him switch category's or MDQ him.

 

Yup

Like totally Mann

When rules are blatantly overlooked by both sides

The weed begins to grow

 

90% of the rules are ment for 10% of the shooters

Just enforce them equally on the 100% and we all win

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you know what, in a few years this trivial $%#^&* won't matter a hill of beans.....

 

can't we just play? follow the existing rules as written and have fun. some days I don't get all fancy and no one gives me a bit of grief,,, the way it should be!!!

 

I'm done!

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felt hat? check

long-sleeve shirt with snaps or smiley pockets? check

long pants? check

belt w/buckle? check

boots wth fancy stichin' and non-grip enhancing soles? check

spurs with quater size rowels? check

scarf or bolero? check

"eyes" an' "ears"? check

pistol butts below top of gunbelt? check

'94 Marlin? check

SXS shotgun? check

 

OK . . . . shooter's ready! What was "the line" again? :blink:

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One of our multi time B-Western World Champions often shoots in a snap front shirt that is otherwise only plaid with a yoke turned perpendicular to the pattern. If you think he isn't B-Western you're sadly mistaken! The shirt, I think has some sentimental significance. I might add that he also often wears a set of purple and green chaps and on other days he has a set of copper colored chaps that matching boots, and if I recall, holsters as well.

 

 

This is your opinion and isn't shared by many of the top shooters in this category, as Slick McClade and Cheyenne Culpepper have stated!

 

Much like many of my pards in Frontiersman have said when folks start to monkey with our category. "LEAVE IT ALONE!!" I reckon that's all I'll say since I don't, and likely never will shoot in this categor

 

 

 

The "and" in the shirt requirement is excellent, I shot a match this past weekend on a posse with a shooter listed as B-Western, he had a snap front plaid shirt, jeans, boots, and felt hat. He did not look like a B-Western shooter at all, the "and" would have fixed that. Most of us that shoot B-Western understand very well what the dress for this category is meant to look like, it is just a very few people who always try to just skate by.

 

You seem to be ignoring the fact that shooter had no spurs, and did not have the one additional required item. I did not have a problem with this shooter, was just surprised that he was shooting B-Western without meeting even the minimum dress requirements.

 

I have no problem with a fancy plaid snap front shirt such as you describe, because the fact that the yoke is different from the body makes it fancy.

 

Shooters who meet the minimum requirements are fine with me, not everyone feels the need to dress up. I think it is the diversity of shooters and their costumes that add to the overall experience at any shoot. I think that the fact that a growing number of B-Western shooters are saying the rules need to be clear and simple, means that the rules as they are are not working as intended.

 

I talked with Coyote Calhoon before I started shooting B-Western to see what I needed to be a well dressed shooter. His comment was "Anyone should be able to distinguish the B-Western shooters just by how they are dressed. A B-Western shooter can never be dressed too loud." I have tried to dress like that ever since.

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I talked with Coyote Calhoon before I started shooting B-Western to see what I needed to be a well dressed shooter. His comment was "Anyone should be able to distinguish the B-Western shooters just by how they are dressed. A B-Western shooter can never be dressed too loud." I have tried to dress like that ever since.

 

I guess that is where I am trying to go. Just remember that we need to set the bar at what we agree is the minimum so that it mirrors that statement and it is clearly understood what is expected. Maybe that statement should be in the forward to the Shooters Handbook.

 

It should also be remembered that a dress that meets minimum standards with a shield front may need a zipper or buttons in the back to allow it to be put on.

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Hey! I think I'll start shooting Classic Cowgirl. It's not important that I shoot duelist style is it? I've got the guns and costume. :o:rolleyes:

LOL....... You are a funny girl! :) Or that you have to spend more money to buy a mule eared shotgun.

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I'll take tha bait, No, it's not funny, NOT ONE of us that saying that all this is nonsense is saying 'break the rules". we're saying do at least the minimum.

 

 

to shoot anything but duelist in CC will get you only two stages per match,,,, per the rules.

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The bottom line to all this nonsense is the Match directors need to adhere to the rules written. We have seen the match directors just say "whatever" at most of these costume calls cuz they don't want to deal with it or don't want to step on anybody's bruised ego's. The correct firearms and correct clothing is what we want. Detailed descriptions to what we need to make minimum requirement or better is all we want to do to follow the rules as written...what we have so far is OK but more details are needed...........Maddog

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Oops, I thought I could shoot my 97! I like visiting the autry museum in LA, and the pants that Gene wore had stirrups to hold the pants down and looked like polyester with some stretch. I thought they were cool, but you really have to be a Man to wear them to a match. Can we move on to light loads now, or just go to the saloon?

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Because the spotters cannot see the blanks hit the target if they were black powder loads! :)

If they can't see the miss, it's a hit....all BW shoot clean :D

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I'll take tha bait, No, it's not funny, NOT ONE of us that saying that all this is nonsense is saying 'break the rules". we're saying do at least the minimum.

 

 

to shoot anything but duelist in CC will get you only two stages per match,,,, per the rules.

I thought you were done.

 

Ditto not dressing according to a category requirement. I don't see a difference.

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Just one change for me........

 

B-Western should require shooters to use black powder or any acceptable BP substitute. Ya gotta make smoke just they did in the movies!!!

 

Everything else is fine the way it is.....

 

Happy 4th y'all......

 

JJJ-D

:ph34r: :ph34r:

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I have always said the BW shooter must dress to the rules......and stay within the rules, shooting out of category doesn't compare, does it? did I miss something?

 

I could understand it if I had said phooey with the rule about apparel but I haven't nor do I believe it is acceptable....no less than shooting out of category.

 

btw, to stop people from complaining at a shoot about another shooter, the MD or PM should not even entertain it unless the complainer can show them in the book the infraction,,, no book, no infraction, and maybe add a SOG for incessant complaints....

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Just one change for me........

 

B-Western should require shooters to use black powder or any acceptable BP substitute. Ya gotta make smoke just they did in the movies!!!

 

Everything else is fine the way it is.....

 

Happy 4th y'all......

 

JJJ-D

:ph34r: :ph34r:

Somehow I knew you would have that suggestion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

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I have always said the BW shooter must dress to the rules......and stay within the rules, shooting out of category doesn't compare, does it? did I miss something?

 

I could understand it if I had said phooey with the rule about apparel but I haven't nor do I believe it is acceptable....no less than shooting out of category.

 

btw, to stop people from complaining at a shoot about another shooter, the MD or PM should not even entertain it unless the complainer can show them in the book the infraction,,, no book, no infraction, and maybe add a SOG for incessant complaints....

Costuming is part of the rules. People cannot decide which rules to follow like my tongue-in-cheek Classic Cowgirl comment.

 

My easiest find and most used part of the ROI is the Pocket RO Card. Here's a quote. "Shooting out of category. e.g., Not wearing the correct items in Classic Cowboy or not making enough smoke in B/P Categories 1st violation is a procedure, 2nd violation is SDQ, 3rd violation is MDQ. "

 

The dispute is primarily the "flashy and fancy" part of BW. Following is the rule from p 16 or the SHB.

"All costumes are expected to be fancy and flashy. The “B” Western costuming must be worn during the entire match and awards ceremony with exception of evening formal occasions."

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im not a long time resident here , and im old enough to "NOT" be PC , so im a bit of a redneck when it comes to my feelings about some of the "rules" that get written , its like the "shorts & tennies" crowd has inspired the PC police to try to control the entire show ,

 

i am all for some basic rules [unless you want to establish an 'open' class - which is OK by me] but the micro management seems to always manifest itself when the few are given control of the many , these "rules" are way too restrictive [which the movies were not] for those that don't like the category - get over it , we are supposed to be having fun here , its supposed to allow that certain bit of americanna that we all grew up with to shine within the framework of our sport , leave some space - it wont kill you ,

 

ive shot some shoots where steampunkers are prominent - they do a great job of trying to be part of the show and have enormous "spirit of the game" i like shooting with them , they are not judgmental and add a lot to the fun ,

much like the cheyenne social club gals that shoot some of my matches , they contribute a lot of "spirit of the game"

 

maybe its time for the hard heads to retire ?

 

nope - we need them too , they keep us aware of jusyt how far ur society has strayed from the pioneer days when everyone used to come in the costumes they were raised with and the only ones they could afford , those that came over in the boats - those that crossed this great country in hopes of a future better than they left - where there was folks trying to micro-manage their lives , telling them they did not fit in and must comply with "the rules"

 

just my two-bits and hardly worth the quarters ,

 

to those that wish to enforce the rules - remember that we want the club to continue and one day someone may write a rule eliminating YOU ,

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it is going to awfully hard to put a standard on "fancy and flashy".... in my opinion that will surely create many more disagreements... fwiw

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it is going to awfully hard to put a standard on "fancy and flashy".... in my opinion that will surely create many more disagreements... fwiw

It is already there and is a problem. It is basically why I got involved in this.

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I honestly do not see it,,,, nor have I anywhere I've shot. but then I have always judged by the existing rules..... not by what I wanted it to be....

 

I have only complained once about a shooter, and it was to him after I found out he had shot BW in a plain bib shirt, which he said had been approved, at which I told him "not again"....

 

he decided to have the needed adjustments made to it for the next time.... end of problem...

 

when it is really hot, my fancy flashy shirts stay in the closet,, yea I know, har har, but they are very heavy and hot... and out come my cotton snap button with yoke shirts....

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