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Ace_of_Hearts

B-Western - Your thoughts on changes

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All BW shooters must shoot duelist or gunfighter, and "Sling" all pistol shots downrange.

 

 

 

Just thought I'd through that in to keep this thread going.

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The rule makers did not live and (possibly) shoot in the desert. Palm straw hats were worn by the US Cavalry in the SW during the Indian Wars. They were also worn in "Son of The Morning Star", one of the best, if not the best film about Custer & The Little Big Horn. John Wayne wore a palm straw hat in his movie "The Alamo". That's just two that I can think of offhand. If straw hats are good enough for the Duke they should be good enough for us. Who wants to spend 2-3 hundred bucks for a custom hat for B-W to have it ruined by sweat stains the first time it's worn @ EOT? Not me. In fact one year I shot EOT dressed BW with a straw hat but shot traditional. Wore my custom made RR copy to the awards.

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All BW shooters must shoot duelist or gunfighter, and "Sling" all pistol shots downrange.

 

 

 

Just thought I'd through that in to keep this thread going.

Rex O'Herlihan slings boolits at the bad guys @ 00.20 :lol:

 

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The rule makers did not live and (possibly) shoot in the desert. Palm straw hats were worn by the US Cavalry in the SW during the Indian Wars. They were also worn in "Son of The Morning Star", one of the best, if not the best film about Custer & The Little Big Horn. John Wayne wore a palm straw hat in his movie "The Alamo". That's just two that I can think of offhand. If straw hats are good enough for the Duke they should be good enough for us. Who wants to spend 2-3 hundred bucks for a custom hat for B-W to have it ruined by sweat stains the first time it's worn @ EOT? Not me. In fact one year I shot EOT dressed BW with a straw hat but shot traditional. Wore my custom made RR copy to the awards.

 

Which of those cited films is considered a "B" Western?

:wacko:

 

FWIW - JW characters are specifically forbidden (as are spaghetti Westerns and "townfolk").

 

BW isn't a "Silver Screen" costume category; nor is any part of it "historically accurate"...as noted previously, perhaps the NAME should be changed to reflect the original concept.

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Just for the record.

The Felt COWBOY hats I use to shoot in cost me around $40.00 ea. I do have a couple of more expensive ones for more formal occasions.

Jeans - $20.00 to $40.00

Shirt - $40.00 - $100.00

Boots - $50.00 - $100.00

Scarf - Less than $10.00

Cuffs - $60.00

Gun belt - 300.00 - $800.00

Spurs - $70.00

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You can find good used B western hats on e bay, have a couple that are in great shape. Cost was @ 30.00 plus shipping for one and 35.00 for the other.

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It should be noted that the "B Western" heyday was primarily in the 1930's and 1940's. They were a Low Budget, hence the "B" designation and ran approximately 70 minutes in length. After that the Low Budget movies were giving way to Television and the era of B Western died away.

Most of us were either very young or did not exist during this period.

I believe this is why many have a concept of B Western that is not entirely accurate. What most of us remember is the "television" cowboys that grew out of that genre.

Just because something appeared in some of these films or on TV, or the rodeo, or the stage, doesn't necessarily make it appropriate for this category.

The Category is B Western, not TV Western stars.

The Category is B Western, not Rodeo Queen.

 

Please keep the above in mind when referencing something as a suggestion to include/exclude.

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"If" as some have mentioned, a B-Western category participant is "supposed" to be easily recognizable.

Then place that into the rules:

All B-Western Costumes are required to be fancy and flashy. A participant in B-Western costuming should be obvious to anyone.

B-Western is a category for shooters that wish to "embrace and celebrate" the look of the stars of the Silver screen or their Matinee Idols - It is not a minimalist category and shooters should consider well before signing up for B Western whether their attire is appropriate.

Match Directors - Posse Marshals and/or other Category members are strongly encouraged to challenge minimalist attire within this category.

(And then just as we bring folks to view smoke to see if someones BP rounds are making enough smoke.

It would be easy enough to convene a group of folks to look at a shooter and ask "If you didn't know - would you say this was B-Western shooter?")

 

You could easily create a general list of "outlawed attire"

and then "any attire" that meets the fancy and flashy requirement and sends the message that the shooter is obviously B Western shooter is allowable.

 

And if the shooter has illegal items or the attire doesn't meet the standard - challenge it.

Personally I have a hard time believing the category was created to include $17.99 JC Penny Snap Button shirts and Blue Jeans while excluding a full on recreation of the Three Amigos.

 

Lastly - my takeaway from this is since folks seem to want shooters dressed like Porter Wagoner's closet exploded.

The Category needs a name change.

B Westerns were low budget films - that often used less than fancy and flashy attire.

More appropriate might be Matinee Idol or Star of the Silver Screen

As if anyone was dressed fancy and flashy - it was the hero.

With the never dirty white hat - the always pressed shirt and boots that had never seen mud.

 

And in my opinion, Matinee Idol or Silver Screen conveys the idea of the type of desired attire a little better.

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Just for the record.

The Felt COWBOY hats I use to shoot in cost me around $40.00 ea. I do have a couple of more expensive ones for more formal occasions.

Jeans - $20.00 to $40.00

Shirt - $40.00 - $100.00

Boots - $50.00 - $100.00

Scarf - Less than $10.00

Cuffs - $60.00

Gun belt - 300.00 - $800.00

Spurs - $70.00

and that sir is a minimalist, save for the $100 shirt..

 

 

cc

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...

More appropriate might be Matinee Idol or Star of the Silver Screen

As if anyone was dressed fancy and flashy - it was the hero.

With the never dirty white hat - the always pressed shirt and boots that had never seen mud.

 

And in my opinion, Matinee Idol or Silver Screen conveys the idea of the type of desired attire a little better.

Creeker, These names certainly do express Coyote Calhoun's vision for this category and emphasize the "flashy and fancy" requirement.

 

In early Arizona (1938)

In+early+Arizona-Autrefois+en+Arizona+19

Jack,

 

It has been written many times, even by our beloved PWB, that not everyone appearing in a BW movie is dressed appropriately for the category. Even John Wayne costumes are specifically excluded.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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Roy Rogers in Jesse James at Bay(1941)

 

1e6049c8685e714c1c4ab477d325c10d.jpg

 

As PWB says.... Look also at what he is wearing in the promotional shot in the corner and not just at the money shot...

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IMO, post 187 not appropriate. Post 188 is appropriate. Although the shirt isn't too fancy, the holster, piped pants, boots, and scarf put it in the running for the category.

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This leads me to think that a possible rewrite could mirror Classic Cowboy, in which a minimum of a specified number (there it is 5) of items must be worn.

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Jack,

 

It has been written many times, even by our beloved PWB, that not everyone appearing in a BW movie is dressed appropriately for the category. Even John Wayne costumes are specifically excluded.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

Allie,

 

That picture came directly from the website PWB quoted to us to use as a reference

 

That leading man EXCEEDS te minimum requirement for b-western

 

Shirt with buttons

Scarf around neck

Chaps

Buscadero, fancy rig

Pants with belt

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See post 189. BTW, not ever costume on that site is appropriate.

But how could you imply that this one is not,

 

In early Arizona (1938)

In+early+Arizona-Autrefois+en+Arizona+19

 

The only thing we cannot see for certain is to check boots for compliance and ensure that he is wearing spurs...

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Jack,

 

I do not see any of the following on the four men at the bar.

" Costuming: Shirts must be of the “B” Western style with snap buttons or any of the following: “Smiley Pockets,” embroidery, appliqués, fringe, or different colored yokes. Shield shirts are also allowed if the shield/bib has piping or embroidery. • Pants must be jeans (one may be wearing jeans), ranch pants, or pants with flap over the rear pocket, keystone belt loops, and/or piping or fringe. ...• All costumes are expected to be fancy and flashy..."

 

The guy on (Bill Elliott?) not in color may be okay. I see snaps, piping, and a scarf.

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We can all dredge up pictures off of any number of websites and pick them apart as to who and who is not dressed appropriately in the picture.

Once again, it is not about what the rules are but how to make those rules clear and concise.

I wrote down my input on the original post and have given reasons as to why I made those changes.

Let's take the last picture posted and apply my changes to it.

None of the four gentlemen would make the cut using my changes. Yet all MAY qualify under the current rules (assuming the shirts have snaps for buttons which you cannot tell at 10 feet). The ruffled shirt could easily be considered "fancy". The purple shirt is seems to be a "fancy" material. The guy in the black shirt is short on both "fancy and flashy" but most match directors would not irritate him by making him change categories. Three are wearing scarfs and the other a vest (meeting the 1 item requirement). We must also assume they meet pant and boot requirements.

The insert of Wild Bill Elliot does meet the minimum requirements of my changes, as the shirt is snap closure AND smiley pockets.

 

The conundrum comes when you try to include the cowboy in the plaid shirt as IN costume and the other three NOT IN costume and have a written word in the handbook that Match Directors can stand by.

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out of the the BW shooters that we have, how many are complaining and/or how many problems have there been?

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From my saddle I can tell you every complaint I've had on me is ONLY because that shooter did not completely know the clothing rules ( and yes I have always met BW requirements). I feel this is the case most of the times with the few complaints that has come up across the board. The only wording that needs to be added in the current guidlines is for "dress"allowance for women . If one would read the rules as written and follow them we would not need to change anything since "most" guys don't wear dresses !! Lol :)

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"If" as some have mentioned, a B-Western category participant is "supposed" to be easily recognizable.

Then place that into the rules:

All B-Western Costumes are required to be fancy and flashy. A participant in B-Western costuming should be obvious to anyone.

B-Western is a category for shooters that wish to "embrace and celebrate" the look of the stars of the Silver screen or their Matinee Idols - It is not a minimalist category and shooters should consider well before signing up for B Western whether their attire is appropriate.

Match Directors - Posse Marshals and/or other Category members are strongly encouraged to challenge minimalist attire within this category.

(And then just as we bring folks to view smoke to see if someones BP rounds are making enough smoke.

It would be easy enough to convene a group of folks to look at a shooter and ask "If you didn't know - would you say this was B-Western shooter?")

 

You could easily create a general list of "outlawed attire"

and then "any attire" that meets the fancy and flashy requirement and sends the message that the shooter is obviously B Western shooter is allowable.

 

And if the shooter has illegal items or the attire doesn't meet the standard - challenge it.

Personally I have a hard time believing the category was created to include $17.99 JC Penny Snap Button shirts and Blue Jeans while excluding a full on recreation of the Three Amigos.

 

Lastly - my takeaway from this is since folks seem to want shooters dressed like Porter Wagoner's closet exploded.

The Category needs a name change.

B Westerns were low budget films - that often used less than fancy and flashy attire.

More appropriate might be Matinee Idol or Star of the Silver Screen

As if anyone was dressed fancy and flashy - it was the hero.

With the never dirty white hat - the always pressed shirt and boots that had never seen mud.

 

And in my opinion, Matinee Idol or Silver Screen conveys the idea of the type of desired attire a little better.

Ok, I was in a low budget western film a few years back, no bling or flash at all, in the costuming

B Western perhaps has more than one meaning

 

Heck I can remember when gay ment happy

Word meanings change

Due to that. Fact

2014 maybe should be called Bling Western category to get the point across

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The B movie, whose roots trace to the silent film era, was a significant contributor to Hollywood's Golden Age of the 1930s and 1940s. As the Hollywood studios made the transition to sound film in the late 1920s, many independent exhibitors began adopting a new programming format: the double feature. The popularity of the twin bill required the production of relatively short, inexpensive movies to occupy the bottom half of the program. The double feature was the predominant presentation model at American theaters throughout the Golden Age, and B movies constituted the majority of Hollywood production during the period.

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The B movie, whose roots trace to the silent film era, was a significant contributor to Hollywood's Golden Age of the 1930s and 1940s. As the Hollywood studios made the transition to sound film in the late 1920s, many independent exhibitors began adopting a new programming format: the double feature. The popularity of the twin bill required the production of relatively short, inexpensive movies to occupy the bottom half of the program. The double feature was the predominant presentation model at American theaters throughout the Golden Age, and B movies constituted the majority of Hollywood production during the period.

 

 

B movie noun

: a movie that costs little money to make and that is usually not considered to be very good

 

Full Definition of B MOVIE

 

: a cheaply produced motion picture

See B movie defined for English-language learners »

First Known Use of B MOVIE

 

Merriam-Webster on Facebook

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this will fix complaints, to complain you MUST have rulebook in hand, you MUST show which requirement is not being met.

 

any questions?

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This is not a thread for complaints.

It is a thread for suggested changes to the B Western rules as shown in the handbook to............

1 - Accommodate the addition of dresses into the rules.

2 - To better highlight the requirements for "Flashy and Fancy".

 

Please. If you wish to complain about anything..... Take it someplace else.

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I would like to know how you are going to describe fancy and flashy....

 

your ideas?

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Shirts - snap shirts with either or all of the following: smiley pockets, embroidered yokes, contrasting yokes, embellished yokes, piping.

boots - traditional leather soled boots with any or all of the following: inlaid leather, multicolored leather, embroidery, (no Ed Hardy tattoo flash, etc.) elaborate stitching, snip toe, pointed toe. No lacing (that would rule out some Earthwalker styles) and no Ariat Fatbaby type boots. ( I am gonna catch hell for this.)

Skirts - should have some quality of B-western design, (riding skirts, split skirts) with either or all of the following: keystone belt loops, fringe, gores, leather composition, conchos, or other embellishment.

 

Dresses - should have the same qualities as shirts.

 

Ranch Pants/jeans - traditional 5 pocket denim jeans with felted seams and belt loops. (SASS already address designer jeans.) Ranch style pants should have any or all of the following: keystone belt loops, flap pockets that snap, embellishments on the outer side seams, piping.

 

Shield shirts may be allowed if bib is embroidered with a western design.

 

Okay, let 'er rip!

 

I would like to know how you are going to describe fancy and flashy....

 

your ideas?

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Lil. Don't agree with the leather soles at all.

 

 

 

As for the Fatbaby's. The wife wears them.

But if that rule was changed. She could easily change

boots.

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Thank you Lil McGill.

The ladies want to allow zippers and if you eliminate buttons will the ladies be able to use them on the back of dresses as they have to be undone past the waist to facilitate putting them on.

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My description of dresses is pretty strict, otherwise you leave that article of clothing wide open. (No, not like that!) However, I conceed that buttons/zippers would be allowed for getting into the dress. Also, dresses could have fancy buttons if they also had any of the other embellishments required for a shirt.

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I am sure Slim would agree with you, Al, about the leather soles.

 

Lil. Don't agree with the leather soles at all.

 

 

 

As for the Fatbaby's. The wife wears them.

But if that rule was changed. She could easily change

boots.

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Hi Lil,

 

What do you think of this: "The bodice on a dress must meet the preceding requirements for shirts. The dresses must have a defined waistline, either belted or fitted, and may have a zipper?"

 

BTW, PaleWolf told us FatBaby's are allowed if they meet the boot requirements. Rubber soles are okay if they are not "grip enhancing (lug soles).

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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I knew that PWB had okayed the Fatbabys and rubber soles, just adding my 2 cents. I agree with your dress description. Also, would still require Bolos or neckerchiefs, belts, felt hats.

 

Hi Lil,

 

What do you think of this: "The bodice on a dress must meet the preceding requirements for shirts. The dresses must have a defined waistline, either belted or fitted, and may have a zipper?"

 

BTW, PaleWolf told us FatBaby's are allowed if they meet the boot requirements. Rubber soles are okay if they are not "grip enhancing (lug soles).

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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