Loco Vaquero Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Aluminum versus brass in a 73 rifle for longevity which one wins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Arrow Hombre Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Brass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josey Kidd Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 BRASS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I prefer a carrier made out of a alloy of copper and zinc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I've been shooting an aluminum carrier on two rifles for 4 years, no issues. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Arrow Hombre Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I prefer a carrier made out of a alloy of copper and zinc. My current main match rifle has a steel carrier so there.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I prefer a carrier made out of a alloy of copper and zinc. me thinks you just threw a nice curve ball..... You were suppose to keep it a secret as to what is used by some of the Top Guns..... You'll have 10,000 Pards searching for those copper/zinc carriers before the weekend is over. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Henry Quick Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I prefer a carrier made out of a alloy of copper and zinc. Dude, you got a pair of brass ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 ...better living through chemistry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I have used both. They both work well. I would only use a brass lifter if it has been lightened by removing excess metal. I did have one aluminum lifter gall at rear of the lifter, but mfg replaced it free. Main thing is to keep sliding surfaces on lifter and receiver clean. I do not use a lube but use a spray cleaner to keep dirt out of the areas the lifter touches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monco Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Aluminum Alloy will wear faster on the edges where the cases make contact when ejecting and where the ramp in the front push the rounds back into the mag tube. No other wear is evident on my carrier. The commonly available aftermarket Al carrier is a simple drop in part that requires no machining and definitely has a lighter feel than OEM (not lightened through machine work) Cu and Zn variety at least when the rest of the rifle is tuned/action lightened. I prefer carrier made of some qty. of Si, Cu, Mg, Cr, possibly a little Mn, Fe, Ti, Zn with the remainder and 95-98% majority Al combined with a hard anodized surface coating. I have been using one for 3 seasons now and while it shows wear in the coating where described previously, it still performs flawlessly. Since the carrier is relatively inexpensive, I'll likely buy another one after this coming season just for grins. Does anyone have any figures for the weight of a lightened OEM brass carrier versus the weight of an aftermarket Al version? To answer OP's question concerning longevity, I'd say brass for obvious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Frank Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I was always in the brass camp due to the longevity concern, but my position has changed. I have been shooting a Renegade all year with an aluminum carrier, and I really like the lighter feel of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Aluminum Alloy will wear faster on the edges where the cases make contact when ejecting and where the ramp in the front push the rounds back into the mag tube. No other wear is evident on my carrier. The commonly available aftermarket Al carrier is a simple drop in part that requires no machining and definitely has a lighter feel than OEM (not lightened through machine work) Cu and Zn variety at least when the rest of the rifle is tuned/action lightened. I prefer carrier made of some qty. of Si, Cu, Mg, Cr, possibly a little Mn, Fe, Ti, Zn with the remainder and 95-98% majority Al combined with a hard anodized surface coating. I have been using one for 3 seasons now and while it shows wear in the coating where described previously, it still performs flawlessly. Since the carrier is relatively inexpensive, I'll likely buy another one after this coming season just for grins. Does anyone have any figures for the weight of a lightened OEM brass carrier versus the weight of an aftermarket Al version? To answer OP's question concerning longevity, I'd say brass for obvious reasons. OEM Brass carrier is about 4 ounces Machined/lightened brass carrier is about 3 ounces Aluminum carrier is about 1 ounce Personally, I have never seen either one that has "worn out" in a gun that is properly tuned and timed. I prefer to install aluminum for a number of reasons - but different strokes for different folks. P.S. I do not know of any Aluminum carriers that are "hard" anodized -- the ones I have seen and used are just "colored" and, yes, the color wears off in spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twelve mile REB Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Brass comes in at around 70 Rockwell and 7075 t-6 which one manufacture claims comes in at 80 Rockwell. What alloy is in use in either case will change results. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monco Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 P.S. I do not know of any Aluminum carriers that are "hard" anodized -- the ones I have seen and used are just "colored" and, yes, the color wears off in spots. Good point and was only going off of the product description from PGW website. The coating on their carriers appears to be similar to the hard anodized components I have been exposed to in the past (racing shock absorber bodies) but does seem to be less durable that what I saw in those parts. However, I haven't done any type of testing. The Hard Anodize process might be overkill in this application especially since any wear doesn't really seem to affect function even if they are just color anodized. I suppose the idea was to make the Al appear a little more like brass.....don't wanna jump start that "Period Correct" debate. twelve mile Reb, PGW states 6061 T-6.....which is softer than 7075 T-6...and std brass.....variations in alloy composition not withstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargo Bill, SASS #4942 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I have often wandered if one milled from titanium could be friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Dan Dawkins Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Once in my heyday I had a a 73. I preferred a milled brass carrier but the Marlin is far superior, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt McAllister Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Depends what the shooter wants to do. If you're going to compete for a world championship and shoot 10,000 rounds a year and shoot a 105 grain bullet use a brass one. If you just shoot a few annuals and some monthly matches and want to shoot 125 grain bullet and above and like the feel of an aluminum carrier spend the money and get an aluminum one. Aluminum carriers wear out with hard use and don't offer any benefit as far as speed. Where they wear out is right where the extractor scoops the case off the carrier. It creates a small divot on each side of the bevel. How do you know it has wore? It will trap a spent case on top of the carrier at a 45 degree angle. I even developed my own aluminum carrier and didn't like the wear characteristics. Of course this only comes from 12 years of doing rifles. There is a cost/benefit factor to anything we do. I can't justify the cost of this option to any benefit. This is not an opinion, this is from hour upon hour of testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Mulo Vaquero, SASS #55942 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I have to agree with Colt on this one. I have seen aluminum carriers wear out and cause jambs as he also describes. I prefer a milled brass carrier as do most of my customers over the last decade+. There may be some that don't have the ability or capability to machine a brass carrier, and using an aluminum one for parts changing works for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Cinch mills them... wore out 2 aluminum before I went to milled brass. Of course they don't jam when you're practicing; they jam with 8 left in the gun and you're diggin' it out on the clock. Milled brass....by experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Dutch, SASS # 7995 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I have had C&I Aluminum Carriers for about ten years in two of my 73's' they have about the same amount of shooting time on them and the carriers still look almost new. And a lot of rounds have been shot in them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloradoblackjack Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I have had an aluminum carrier in my '73 since 2007. I have shot it quite a bit. it has never given me any trouble...yet. I hope I didn't just jinx myself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spades Hanlin SASS#66204 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Magniesium works great.. Light weight, strong, burns real well once started!!!! Milled brass seems to run good for me.. Spades H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The aluminum seems to accumulate lots of BP scum. My C&I aluminum carrier has beveled edges at the back (that support the case head) instead of the radiused edges on the brass. These beveled edges make a harder travel for the case head. I guess I could round them slightly, but the BP build up made me swap back to the brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 There are currently at least four different aluminum '73 carriers being sold in the U.S. They are not all the same and at least one has been modified (and improved) in the last year or so. As some of the other gentlemen have said, sometimes carriers will be deeply gouged and wear where the rim of the cartridge case rotates as the carrier knocks it off the extractor. But, as I stated, "Personally, I have never seen either one that has "worn out" in a gun that is properly tuned and timed." One brand of aluminum carrier used to be notorious for doing the damage described by these gentlemen but that brand has been improved recently and the problem largely corrected. As most 73 smiths know (and I'm certain these other knowledgeable smiths know) , if the rise of the carrier is delayed, the carrier will pin the case because the face of the bolt (extractor) has drawn the case too far into the back of the mortise --- the gun is out of time (or the carrier is not made to the best dimensions) . Whether you like machined brass or aluminum is a personal preference thing. I am sure all these gentlemen do good work but we all do things a little differently and have different druthers and different beliefs I suspect we are all correct for our own work -- even when we disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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