Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I've wondering about those old cars like the 64 GTO. Heck, with all that displacement they don't hardly match the HP put out by todays engines which are smaller on average. Whats the reason: carbueration/fuel injection; better fuels, outright superior engineering, or what? My Ford 3.5L v6 turbo exceeds the HP of that old GTO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sloe Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Many of the old hp numbers were scaled down for insurance purposes. These days the engines can be dialed in so much better: electronic ignition, fuel injection, etc. Barry Sloe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan Cord Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I think you nailed with superior engineering. Add computer aided design and advance materials to the mix and you get more horsepower. But..........it will never be the same as sitting shotgun in my best friends 1967 GTO while he smoked the tires on that old goat! No V-6 aluminum and plastic, fuel injected computer controlled engine will ever make me smile like that old 389 topped off with a six pack! Rick sold it for $1500 in 1979. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Tull, SASS #66742 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 COMPUTERS ? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN COMPUTERS ! 466 cubic inches...........694 ft lbs torque............720.9 horsepower.......... And more fun that a person should be legally allowed to have on the highway. You can keep your computers, variable timed cams and valves, fuel injection....................I like Detroit MUSCLE! Though in all fairness, what they are doing with engines is amazing. Just look at the V-16 Bugati Veyron - it is high tech engineering that is off the scale. But.......................................... When was the last time you heard a new computer controlled car start up in an enclosed parking lot, and set off car alarms on 3 floors of the garage? ? ? ? That Boss Nine pictured above does every time I go to St. Dominics Hospital. Professor Tull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond S Doug Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Most of the old muscle car HP numbers were flat out lies for insurance purposes. 3500 lb cars going as fast and quick as they did had way more HP than advertised. Good thing now we have the government to keep things honest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Hawk 60642 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 COMPUTERS ? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN COMPUTERS ! 466 cubic inches...........694 ft lbs torque............720.9 horsepower.......... And more fun that a person should be legally allowed to have on the highway. You can keep your computers, variable timed cams and valves, fuel injection....................I like Detroit MUSCLE! Though in all fairness, what they are doing with engines is amazing. Just look at the V-16 Bugati Veyron - it is high tech engineering that is off the scale. But.......................................... When was the last time you heard a new computer controlled car start up in an enclosed parking lot, and set off car alarms on 3 floors of the garage? ? ? ? That Boss Nine pictured above does every time I go to St. Dominics Hospital. Professor Tull MY....MY......MY Professor Tull......Do my eyes deceive me ? ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C. W. Knight # 47289L Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I think you nailed with superior engineering. Add computer aided design and advance materials to the mix and you get more horsepower. But..........it will never be the same as sitting shotgun in my best friends 1967 GTO while he smoked the tires on that old goat! No V-6 aluminum and plastic, fuel injected computer controlled engine will ever make me smile like that old 389 topped off with a six pack! Rick sold it for $1500 in 1979. Ethan, come on out to TN and you can relive a little of that with me on some back road. '65 GTO, 3 dueces, a 4 speed and a 389, with "ram air". I still can't do pictures but the car is listed with photos on Cars-on-Line. Burgundy w/ red interior!! Major wow factor when the 3 X 2' kick in. C.W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Bob Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Maybe we can give him a little fun and pair off my dodge truck and your goat. 51 1/2 ton with a 440 with 9.5 to 1 compression, high rise with offset dual quads and high lift cam. No rice rockets for me. And yes, its atotal laff to set off those car alarms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Tull, SASS #66742 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 MY....MY......MY Professor Tull......Do my eyes deceive me ? ! Hawk - Do you mean the redesigned Jon Kaase BOSS429 Heads that now fit on a 460 block? Call it what you will - Boss Nine, Boss 466, Semi-Hemi, or my favorite - "SHOTGUN HEMI" - it is Fords version of the HEMI. It is big, bad, noisy and scares he77 out of the 'tuner' cars. I LOVE IT ! Tull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clueless Bob Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Here's a thought, if those engines of yester-year were built to today's tolerances what power they could have made. Of course how quickly they would have blown too!! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustyfinger 22618 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 427 small block,single quad,487hp 534ft# of ground thumping torq.its like avery finlly tuned 73. Ilike to call it my pony killer.Bowtie for ever.Amen,Rusty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Smokepole #29248L Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I have driven quite a few current musclecars and none of them had the absolute raw power and slamming your head into the headrest that my warmed over 1972 Cuda with a heavily massaged 440 Six Pack.... Newer cars are aided by traction control, betyter tire compounds, more gearing and 6 speed trannies.... If they had these along with things like good EFI. head porting, roller cams and lifters, CNC porting, close tolerance machining, suspensions that worked with you instead of just sitting under the cxar, etc., My Cuda would have been a 750 HP at the rear wheels with ET's in the low 10's or even the upper 9's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Branch Louie Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I love 60's muscle cars, but they truly are no match for today's cars. Back in the 60's, hoorsepower was rated at the flywheel without accessories installed, so if they were still rated the same, today's cars would show even more horsepower. Old cars rarely lasted 200,00 miles, either, and today it's pretty common. Tighter manufacturing tolerances, tighter manufacturing techniques and computers are mostly to thanks for that, along with much superior oils today. The fastest 1/4 mile car ever tested by Hotrod magazine was a 455 Buick Gransport, believe it or not, but today's cars will blow them away. Now, having said all that, NOTHING made today sounds like a high compression, solid lifter engine with a big old honkin' cam in it. I like today's technology, but the old school stuff still reigns supreme in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bama Red Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Professor, I guarantee you that the Boss Nine is computer designed from oil pan to air cleaner, fan to transmission. But I do get your point - there is nothing like a monster V8, with a lovely cam, loping away at idle while sitting at a stoplight. Then, when the light turns green........................Katy bar the door!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I love 60's muscle cars, but they truly are no match for today's cars. Back in the 60's, hoorsepower was rated at the flywheel without accessories installed, so if they were still rated the same, today's cars would show even more horsepower. Old cars rarely lasted 200,00 miles, either, and today it's pretty common. Tighter manufacturing tolerances, tighter manufacturing techniques and computers are mostly to thanks for that, along with much superior oils today. The fastest 1/4 mile car ever tested by Hotrod magazine was a 455 Buick Gransport, believe it or not, but today's cars will blow them away. Now, having said all that, NOTHING made today sounds like a high compression, solid lifter engine with a big old honkin' cam in it. I like today's technology, but the old school stuff still reigns supreme in my head. This is off the HP topic but don't forget the cars have much better steel now, cars used to rust out at 3-4 yrs.! (At least in climates with winter) Now the bodies last a lot longer. Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 Posted September 9, 2012 Author Share Posted September 9, 2012 I never had a true muscle car. Weill I did too for a short span. What I had was a 57 chev 2 dr hardtop fire engine red. The sound of those smutty glass pacs still rumble in my head. My ford pickup would leave it so far behind it ain't funny but you're right......it ain't the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond S Doug Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Most importantly no one ever put on of those fart can mufflers on a muscle car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan Cord Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Ethan, come on out to TN and you can relive a little of that with me on some back road. '65 GTO, 3 dueces, a 4 speed and a 389, with "ram air". I still can't do pictures but the car is listed with photos on Cars-on-Line. Burgundy w/ red interior!! Major wow factor when the 3 X 2' kick in. C.W. C.W. I would love too! My muscle car "back in the day" was a '70 1/2 Z-28 Camaro with an LT-1 350, 4 speed M-22 Muncie "Rock Crusher" and 3.73 posi rear end. She had been worked over by the previous owner and the dyno said 425 HP to the rear tires! Some of my other money pits were: 1972 Four Courier(stuffed a 2600 cc V-6 from a Capri in it), 1972 El Camino, 1965 Mustang, 1958 Chevy Fleetside pick up, 1964 Falcon Ranchero, 1941 Ford Super Deluxe Convertible. I also wasted, err I mean invested, a lot of money in Jeeps too. Here are a couple things I learned building cars: You CAN break an M-22 Muncie and shear a Z-28 drive shaft off right at the u-joints. I was never able to do both at the same time though! You can still close the stock hood on a '58 Chevy truck even after you put a blower and dual quads on top of the 350 engine! Ford Flat Head V-8's sound AWESOME, but boy does it cost A LOT of money to go that slow! Four wheel drive is only to get you out of the trouble two wheel drive got you into! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan Cord Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 For all you Goat fans! I'll betcha no one ever writes a cool song about Yugos or Hyundais! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 COMPUTERS ? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN COMPUTERS ! 466 cubic inches...........694 ft lbs torque............720.9 horsepower.......... And more fun that a person should be legally allowed to have on the highway. You can keep your computers, variable timed cams and valves, fuel injection....................I like Detroit MUSCLE! Though in all fairness, what they are doing with engines is amazing. Just look at the V-16 Bugati Veyron - it is high tech engineering that is off the scale. But.......................................... When was the last time you heard a new computer controlled car start up in an enclosed parking lot, and set off car alarms on 3 floors of the garage? ? ? ? That Boss Nine pictured above does every time I go to St. Dominics Hospital. Professor Tull What's it burn for fuel? LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jake1001 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I'll betcha no one ever writes a cool song about Yugos or Hyundais! http://humor.beecy.net/songs/Elvis/ .give it a second to load. They say, “People don’t you understand? Those Suburbans are ruining the land!” But they’ll wish they had a full-size van one day They’re pointing fingers at you and me They say we’re too blind to see But do we simply use our heads And choose a better way As those small wheels turn Fifty miles to the gallon and their knees on their chests They’re gonna save a lot of gas for all the rest In a Yugo Then one day on the interstate They suddenly lose control They swerve to miss a baby duck And are squashed by an SUV—they’re out of luck But they drove with pride And as the crowds drive past the little flat car You know they saved a lot of gas but they didn’t get far In a Yugo Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Tull, SASS #66742 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 What's it burn for fuel? LG Straight 10% ethanol, 93 or 92 octane pump gas. Have tried non-alcohol gas - it doesn't like it. In 2 1/2 years, have about 23,000 miles on it. Gear Vendor overdrive h-in back of the C-6 [2500 stall] trans. 3.50 rear gets about 17 1/2 to 18 mpg on the highway. Tull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 This is off the HP topic but don't forget the cars have much better steel now, cars used to rust out at 3-4 yrs.! (At least in climates with winter) Now the bodies last a lot longer. Rye Today's cars don't rust cuz they ain't got no metal in them bodies....all fiberglass and plastic today!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Tull, SASS #66742 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Professor, I guarantee you that the Boss Nine is computer designed from oil pan to air cleaner, fan to transmission. You got that right. The computers have a great deal to do with Jon Kaase winning the National horsepower challenge 4 of the last 5 years, and supplying over 70% of the IHRA Pro Stock 800 inch 'mountain' motors. Tull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Chevy Chevelle SS 396, 375-hp -- now that was a car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Tull, SASS #66742 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 2008 Mustang 'BOSS Nine' - Jon Kaase personal car Computer technology, modern materials, and extreme out of the box thinking, produced Kaase's personal BOSS Nine Mustang. Since this article was written, the power has been upped to 967 HP - on a carburetor, and without any power additives. Just pure engine - and completely streetable. If anyone is interested, you can go to the top of the page in the article and click on "BOSS Nine Customers", then go to the bottom of that page, you will find 2 pics of the very first Kaase crate "BOSS Nine/BOSS 466" engine to be ordered , delivered and installed - Putting a smile on my face every time I climb in to that big yellow Merc. Above Link Repaired 6:25, 9-10-12 Tull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Today's cars don't rust cuz they ain't got no metal in them bodies....all fiberglass and plastic today!! I beg to differ with you. My 2012 Buick Verano's body is not fiberglass and plastic! That may be the case inside the car but not the body 'Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Today's cars don't rust cuz they ain't got no metal in them bodies....all fiberglass and plastic today!! I beg to differ with you. My 2012 Buick Verano's body is not ALL fiberglass and plastic! That may be the case inside the car and certain parts like the grill front and bumper but not the entire body. 'Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 Chevy Chevelle SS 396, 375-hp -- now that was a car! The very first true muscle mar I ever rode in. If there had been any buttons on that seat before they woulda been sucked off afterwords. His was stripped down with no AC. Just positrac and a four speed. The next one was a Dodge 440 Magnum. Thereafter I decided that stock 57 chevies and 63 impalas with 327's were bout as fast as I needed to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan Cord Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Dang, I just love love the GoogleNet! Tons of info out there, some good, some bad, some true and some that is just plain fun! http://humor.beecy.net/songs/Elvis/ Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 The very first true muscle mar I ever rode in. If there had been any buttons on that seat before they woulda been sucked off afterwords. His was stripped down with no AC. Just positrac and a four speed. The next one was a Dodge 440 Magnum. Thereafter I decided that stock 57 chevies and 63 impalas with 327's were bout as fast as I needed to go! I forgot about the 440 Magnum. A guy named David (can't remember his last name to save my soul) had one in high school. I got to ride in it one night when we were doing some street racing out in the country. That thing would sure sit you back in your seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 1970 1/2 Firebird Formula 400, Hurst 4 speed, no A/C, power steering and brakes. am/fm radio, not much else but speed...and a beautiful body with Aegean Blue metallic paint. With gas at over $4.15 a gallon I couldn't use it for anything but a coffee table these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Duckett Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 If you had to use only one word, I would use compression. Typical engine has more compression than they used to. That's how we are getting high hp and high fuel economy. Along with high pressure fuel managment systems, etc... Cash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan Cord Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Not long after I bought my '70 1/2 Z-28 my brother bought his 1st '69 Road Runner with a 383 and 4 speed. My Z-28 cleaned his clock no matter how we started. Off the line, rolling 15, rolling 60 it didn't matter. He went out and bought a second '69 Road Runner, this one had the 440 Magnum and automatic trans. It did not run as fast as the other. He gave up on Mopars and started building a nitrous powered 4 wheel drive Ford pick up. I forgot about the 440 Magnum. A guy named David (can't remember his last name to save my soul) had one in high school. I got to ride in it one night when we were doing some street racing out in the country. That thing would sure sit you back in your seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 When I was 15 (way back in 1973!) my parents bought me a nice used Pontiac from a neighbor lady who got it in a divorce and did not need it. Did I mention it was a '67 Pontiac GTO? I don't know if my dad did not know, or what, but no 15 year old should have a car like that. I don't remember the size of the engine, but it was pretty strong. Had a 3 speed tranny, and a holly 4 barrel. It would smoke the rear tires as long as I stood on the gas in 1st, rip about 2 yard of rubber when I shifted to 2nd, and would make the tiresd "chirp" when I went to 3rd. Car was so fast, when running full speed the front end floated off the ground. I thought it was way cool to turn the steering wheel back and forth while the car went straight. Its a wonder I survived to shoot in CAS today! Believe it or not, I sold it to buy a International Harvester PU truck in 1975. I needed a truck to haul a horse trailer around with. Talk about a change in driving habits. That truck was UGLY, would only go about 70, but it would pull whatever you tied to the bumper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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