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Schofield's


Black Bart Sr

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Anyone shoot Schofields in competition?

What kind of grips do you use? 

Any gun work done and by who?

Do you have a 5" or 7" barrel? 

How do you lighten the safety (hammer won't cock if you're touching the trigger).

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Black Bart Sr said:

Anyone shoot Schofields in competition?

Yes but very few.  They are shot more for fun than serious competition.

1 hour ago, Black Bart Sr said:

What kind of grips do you use? 

Most people use the factory grips as there are few aftermarket grips.

1 hour ago, Black Bart Sr said:

Any gun work done and by who?

Not many people work on them.  You will have to shop around.

1 hour ago, Black Bart Sr said:

Do you have a 5" or 7" barrel? 

Matter of personnel preference.  The shorter barrels balance better.  The longer barrels are muzzle heavy but look "cool."

1 hour ago, Black Bart Sr said:

How do you lighten the safety (hammer won't cock if you're touching the trigger).

The trigger is not a safety.  The fact that the hammer won't cock when you are touching the trigger is part of the design of the gun.  On a Colt style revolver the cylinder locking bolt operates off a cam on the hammer.  On the Scholfield the bolt operates off the trigger.  There use to be a smith that would convert the S&W to operate off the hammer.  He retired many years ago.

1 hour ago, Black Bart Sr said:

 

 

About all you can do with them is lighten the springs but the built in hammer block safety makes that problematic as you will start getting misfires.  If you want to improve the action you can remove the internal passive safety.  The gun will then operate just like an original with a half-cock and full cock notch.  The firing pin will protrude when it is at rest just like a Colt so you can only load five safely.  You can then lighten the mainspring a bit.  There are no aftermarket parts so you have to use and modify the original springs.

 

The internal safety is part #656 on this drawing.  You  can go to VTI and look at the schematic and parts nomenclature.

 

Screenshot2024-11-24at11_19_44AM.thumb.png.486a779c3e7de61c6ec3d6ff3e503fb0.png

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I have a pair I shoot off and on. As a dualist the trigger block thingy was a PITA. I had the guy that did, change the internals to allow the trigger to be touched and hammer pulled. If you shoot two handed I don't know if you can slip hammer them.

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Larsen, that was some "great information" that you shared! It's hard finding any good info for Schofields.

 

Ike, I shoot double dualist. It "is a pain" with that internal passive safety. Did you ever noticed any problems after adjusting the  internal passive safety (thingy)?

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I think you are mixing apples and oranges.  The issue with the trigger not allowing the hammer to cock if you are touching it is not adjustable.  It is inherent in the design.  The only way around it is to do substantial modifcations to the internals of the gun and to completely change the way the cylinder locking bolt operates.  The guy that use to do this work (Bill English from The Smith Shop) is long retired and I donot know anyone else that is doing it.  The "passive" safety is the part I identified as part #656.  That is also not adjustable.  It can be removed but it cannot be adjusted.  Shooting double duelist with stock Schofields can be a challenge as you must train yourself to keep your fingers off the triggers while cocking the guns.

Edited by Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933
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6 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Have you had any mechanical issues with them?  :huh:

 

Just one. I kept getting sporadic misfires. Since I was not keeping them separate in the holsters, I didn't know if one or both had the problem. I started to place one S/N on the left, the other on the right. (Still do that.) I figured out which one it was. Then I tried to determine why. After some specific tests, I found that the cylinder was sporadically over rotating when I cocked the hammer rapidly. This did not happen every time, just occasionally. I left the frame open and cocked it rapidly many times and noticed that the bolt stop would sometime be all the way up and other times, it would be lower. After disassembling the bolt mechanism, I found that the bolt pin was bent! The pin would rotate and when the bend was at the bottom, the bolt stop would be too low to lock the cylinder Mind you that this is a very small diameter pin. I straightened it and problem solved,

 

It took me about four months to solve this problem! 

 

It probably got bent by the previous owner when closing the frame hard with the hammer down causing the cylinder to hit the bolt stop.

 

I would estimate that the two Schofields I use have over 10000 rounds through each of them.

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On 11/24/2024 at 12:02 PM, Black Bart Sr said:

Anyone shoot Schofields in competition?

What kind of grips do you use? 

Any gun work done and by who?

Do you have a 5" or 7" barrel? 

How do you lighten the safety (hammer won't cock if you're touching the trigger).

 

 

I do take mine out every so often for fun.

 

My first Schofield is a Uberti replica in .45 Colt that I usually pair with a Colt in the same caliber.  I shoot double duelist style, and the grips are the stock wooden ones that came with gun.   7" barrel on this gun, so it get's paired with a 7.5" Colt.   That is, until the last time I took it out.  I instead paired it with a Uberti replica of the S&W American in .45 Colt.   The two guns are very different, but it didn't bother me any.    No work has been done to it, and the safety thing has never bothered me.  

I have more recently obtained a real S&W "Third Model" Schofield in .45 S&W.   I have finally gotten all the needed stuff to load the caliber, so at at least one shoot next season, I'll use a pair of Schofields.   It'll be interesting to see if the S&W rounds will chamber in the Uberti,  I've read that sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't.

S&W Top Breaks are fun.

Edited by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619
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I've shot Schofields for about 30 years in competition now.  5" and 7" both.  I shoot duelist, and they fit my hands well.  As a friend of mine said, if you buy a Schofield and have it changed so the finger on the trigger is not a problem you basically have a Colt in a Schofield body.  Mine are all .45, and I shoot both .45 long Colt and .45 Schofield in them.  I have real ivory grips on two of the 5" and those are the guns I shoot regularly, they can come on target a little faster.  I have stag grips on three of the 7" I have, they are a little steadier and work well for targets at longer distances.  I have various wood grips on the others - don't ask how many.  Like Uriah says, they are fun to shoot.

Oh, you need to learn to work on them if they have simple problems, smoothing rough parts or replacement of broken parts.  Either that or have enough money to find someone who can (and can do a good job).

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The reproductions do not have blast shields on the front of the cylinder.  The cylinder gap is directly over the base pin.  They do not do well with heavy loads of BP.

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I have four of them. 

Two 7 1/4 and Two 5" 

They both are fun to shoot but I don't use them at all in competition .

They are a lot of fun to shoot .

And they sure are Beautiful to look at .

Just Sayin. 

Rooster 

 

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Before you start grinding on the main springs, pull the grip panels and cock the guns a few times, watching the spring travel.  On mine, the springs bound up on the grip frame at about half the cocking stroke, causing the hammer to become much harder to pull through the last half of its stroke.

 

I carefully re-arched the springs so that they didn’t touch the grip frames and the guns became a real pleasure to shoot!

 

I didn’t actually discover this trick myself. I took the guns to a match right after I bought ‘em and another shooter told me about the issue.

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On 11/24/2024 at 11:02 AM, Black Bart Sr said:

Anyone shoot Schofields in competition?

What kind of grips do you use? 

Any gun work done and by who?

Do you have a 5" or 7" barrel? 

How do you lighten the safety (hammer won't cock if you're touching the trigger).

 

 

 

 

Do you actually own some now or are you just thinking about getting some?  If you have not purchased any yet make sure you shoot some before you buy to make sure you can shoot them.  I did not do this years ago when I purchased a pair only to find that my small hands did not work well in shooting them duelist style and I sold them pretty quickly.  My mistake.

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I shot a pair of 5" Uberti top breaks for several years as a duelist shooter. My forearms would tire before the match ended so I ordered a pair of new springs and then ground the springs. They were useful when we used to do pistol reloads, but haven't done any in years.

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Cowtown Scout, I have 3 sets (four 7" & two 5".

I have 2 problems:

When cocking I sometimes  just verily touch the trigger, thus freezing the cocking action.

Two of my other sets are hard to cock, unlike my Navy Arms/Uberti which is supper smooth.

 

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Howdy Fellers,

 

I got a pair of Schofields that had been slicked up (and engraved) but not modified to eliminate the trigger deal. I have small hands and shoot duelist (glacially slow) and rarely notice the trigger deal. I also shoot Colts and Remingtons and never notice a difference in the grip shapes. It may be that because I move my grip all the way up the stock so I can easily cock all my six-guns that this minimizes the differences in stock shapes for me. 

Rev. Chase

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Reverend P. Babcock Chase, who slicked up and engraved your Schofields?

What was all done in slicking them up?

Do you have a picture?

 

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Anyone shoot Schofields in competition?

Yes I've shot my (4) 7" blue & (2) 5" nickel for 20+ years. along with my Marlin Cowboy Comp which Widder adjusted the timing to reliably feed the shorter .45 S&W's and reshaped the lifter to prevent the dreaded Marlin Jam..

The S&W No.3  Schofield 2000 are internally completely different than the original 1875 S&W Schofields as well as the Uberti clones.

They will not shoot BP or substitute as they eliminated the gas ring like the originals had on the front of the cylinder and the cylinder to topstrap clearance is too tight. I talked to a Smith at the Performance Center decades ago and he said they intended them for smokeless powder only and that S&W lost $150.00 per pistol due to long lost manufacturing techniques/skills which had to be reinvented/learned,. S&W Historian Mr. Roy Jinks had proposed to the S&W Board to reproduce all the No.3 models in honor of their 125 year anniversary, but due to cost overruns the program came to a sudden end after the 2002 run of the 5" Wells Fargo model.. They sold for $1300.00+- in 2000 when they were released and sell for $2450.00 +- today on Gunbroker. The 7" serial # prefix was GWS for blue & NKL for nickel with. 2600 mfg in 2000. I'm waiting on a letter for a 7" nickle to determine how many were blue and nickle. Their were 71 blue 5" with a  WFS prefix and 107 nickel with a WFC  prefix mfg in 2002.

Shot The High Sierra Shootout this year "Josie Wales" style:  (1) 5" nickel in a Black Hills Leather shoulder holster tabled at the line (same Rig as he made for Val Kilmer in Tombstone) for the SG targets, (2) 7" blue in my Deuce rig for pistol targets and (2) 7" in hand going to the line then tabled at the line for the rifle targets.

I have never had so much fun at a match as did shooting "Josey Wales" and wish SASS would add the category. High Sierra Shootout, Peacefuls End of Track and the East/West Sierra Shootout in Railroad Flat Ca.  all offer this category along with "Tom Horn". The Famous "Ore Cart" stage where all (5) pistols are tabled on the Ore Cart's tray all in a row drew a lot of oooh's & aaah's  as you can imagine, it was quite a sight to behold as therei s no better looking pistol than a No.3...you'd be lucky to see 2 at a match, certainly not 5 and especially with one Cowboy....Sweet! 

What kind of grips do you use?

I shoot the factory grips which are  exotic "Cake Walnut". Thought about having Charlie Parkhurst checker them as she did with my 1858's for Frontiersman/Plainsman, but shooting two handed partially gripping the front of the triggerguard with my weak hand they stay right on target. If you shoot GF or duelist and think you need a more aggressive grip, she is the one to do them, absolutely beautiful work in two styles of checkering. If you would like er contact info, PM me.

The Schofield frame size is the forerunner of the S&W N-Frame, the plow handle square butt style grips are size wise like S&W N-Frame Targets grips.

If you have small hands the Uberti New Model No.3 or Russian Mod.3 would suit you better as their frames have a round butt grip which is way smaller similar to a round butt L frame.

Any gun work done and by who?

As said above "The Smith Shop" closed long ago and I have never found a Smith who would touch them due to No replacement parts available.

There is a 7" on Gunbroker which the owner states it has a shortened cylinder to accept .45acp moons and has an action job preformed by Jimmie Spurs well know for his Outstanding Ruger Vaquero work. You might contact him and see what he can do, I plan to.

Do you have a 5" or 7" barrel?

The 5" are quicker out of the leather in a standard cowboy rig the 7" not so much. I was using Black Hills Leather holsters which S&W offered in 2000, they were highly tooled with silver/brass S&W inscribed conchos. I also had Rudy at BHL make me a crossdraw rig, the X was fast ,but the strong side was still slow on the draw due to the barrel length. Then I saw a Deuce Steven's video on the Mernickle site, he was shooting 7-1/2" Colts out of his Mernickle designed  "Deuce" rig and I saw how quick they came out/in...Yes I know he is one of the Best, but every little bit of timed shaved helps the OAT, so I ordered up a rig and what a difference...it's like having (2) crossdraw holsters, the  7" come out and in smooth and fast. I liked the Rig so much I had one made for my 4-1/2" Colts and 7" 1858 Remington C&B's.. see pics

How do you lighten the safety (hammer won't cock if you're touching the trigger).

The hammer not cocking when you touch the trigger is because touching the trigger engages the hammer block allowing you to carry 6rds safely just like any modern S&W. This also will not allow slip hammering..so it's cock & squeeze. The trigger spring is actually a leaf spring riveted to the frame, the hammer spring is the typical S&W leaf, slightly adjustable with the forestrap adjustment screw or it can be hour glassed ground as is done with S&W competition guns., both springs will lighten up with use though.

Loads for the .45 S&W:

Someone above said you an shoot .45Colt in a S&W, well you can't as they are 1/8" too long. The S&W .45 will fit Colt SAA's as it was supplied to the Calvary as it worked in both. The Uberti chamber will fit the .45S&W, but might have extraction issues due to the different head size..

I use Starline .45 S&W brass, Fed LP primers, 4.3gr Trailboss under a Bang & Clang 200gr RNFP ceramic coated bullet...Perfect!

A little Schofield history from the S&W letter:

The Horse Soldier could rapidly fire, unload and load the Schofield with his horse at a gallop.

You can load & unload a Schofield in 26secs.

Testing at the National Armory indicated you could reload a Schofield SEVEN times in the length of time it took to reload a Colt SAA.

 

Marlin Schofield

 

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Marlin Schofield, thanks for the info you supplied.

I plan on shipping several pairs to Jimmy Spurs. He had done some excellent work for my son (Jr.).

 

As far as performance and competition shooting is there any difference between S&W vs Uberti?

 

 

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No difference in shooting except you can slip hammer the Uberti's and shoot .45LC.

I have shot a Uberti at cowboy steel and it rang the steel, but have never printed one on paper, not quite as smooth as my S&W which I have papered.

I shot my Schofield 7" .45S&W 180gr Black Hills in a indoor handgun league for kicks instead of my normal league pistols a S&W Mod. 27-2  8/3/8" or a S&W Mod. 627 5"  WinClean .38sp 130gr.

We shoot Big Blue silhouette targets, 12rds each at 7yd, 10yd, 15yd and 25yds.

I shot a 240 on the front 7 & 10yd combined and a 235 on the back 15-25yd combined which are my average scores with my Mod. 27 or 627.

Schofields Rule!!!

The S&W's are Cadillac's the Uberti's are Pontiac's.

Marlin

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On 11/26/2024 at 3:16 PM, Black Bart Sr said:

Cowtown Scout, I have 3 sets (four 7" & two 5".

I have 2 problems:

When cocking I sometimes  just verily touch the trigger, thus freezing the cocking action.

Two of my other sets are hard to cock, unlike my Navy Arms/Uberti which is supper smooth.

 

My Navy Arms Uberti No.3's  and My Cimarron Uberti No.3's Are Night and Day different in smoothness feel and quality IMHO .

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