Interesting observation

[Sedalia Dave]

 

[Rip Snorter]

There are still a few, very few warriors that often tip the balance.  You can find references back to Imperial Rome and before.

[Sedalia Dave]

What the Heck is a “Dum-Dum” Bullet Anyway

 

 

[Blackwater 53393]

“Dum dum” was a descriptive term used for lead bullets that had the tip defaced to cause extra expansion.  
 

A lot of them had an X or a cross cut or filed in the tip.

 

I believe it was coined in the twenties!  The 1920s!!

[Buckshot Bear]

19 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

“Dum dum” was a descriptive term used for lead bullets that had the tip defaced to cause extra expansion.  
 

A lot of them had an X or a cross cut or filed in the tip.

 

I believe it was coined in the twenties!  The 1920s!!

 

There's untold amounts of references by Aussie troops at Gallipoli from the day of the landing in 1915 of the Turks using Dum Dum rounds (the Aussies were also accused) -

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-24/wwi-soldiers-letter-provides-vivid-account-of-gallipoli-landing/5401882

[Alpo]

I gave up on the video maybe 10 minutes in. He had just finished talking about how they had started making jacketed bullets. So maybe he covered this - I don't know.

 

The British army, in the armory in Dum Dum India, were experimenting with making bullets that would expand and do more damage. That's where the term came from. Just like it's a crescent wrench, just like they're a pair of channel locks, any expanding bullet is a dum dum bullet.

 

Since all bullets up until the very late 1800s were pure soft lead, the whole idea of dum dum bullets didn't happen until they started using jackets.

 

 

[Sedalia Dave]

6 hours ago, Alpo said:

I gave up on the video maybe 10 minutes in. He had just finished talking about how they had started making jacketed bullets. So maybe he covered this - I don't know.

 

The British army, in the armory in Dum Dum India, were experimenting with making bullets that would expand and do more damage. That's where the term came from. Just like it's a crescent wrench, just like they're a pair of channel locks, any expanding bullet is a dum dum bullet.

 

Since all bullets up until the very late 1800s were pure soft lead, the whole idea of dum dum bullets didn't happen until they started using jackets.

 

 

 

That is exactly what the stated in the video. The name came from the Dum Dum armory and stuck.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

11 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

It’s why a dog fights until it can’t.

[Pat Riot]

I personally believe that “rules of war” and the use of non-expanding projectiles is stupid and a result of centuries of the aristocracy agreeing to rules of battle as if they were playing a game. 
An enemy combatant shot and killed with efficient expanding projectiles is not an enemy soldier that will heal and come back to the fight meaner and with more confidence that he can’t be killed. 
 

Yes, I do have a bit of berserker in me. 
 

General George Patton and General “Chesty” Puller had it right. 

[Stump Water]

1 hour ago, Pat Riot said:

An enemy combatant shot and killed...

 

An enemy combatant wounded takes one or two others out of the fight.

 

One of the reasons the .223 Rem/5.56 was adopted.   Although you won't find that "documented" anywhere.

[Pat Riot]

1 minute ago, Stump Water said:

 

An enemy combatant wounded takes one or two others out of the fight.

 

One of the reasons the .223 Rem/5.56 was adopted.   Although you won't find that "documented" anywhere.

I personally think that’s a lame theory developed by politicians and brown nosing military types. 

Modern “Aristocrats”.

 

[Texas Joker]

Dead soldiers can be dealt with later. 1 loss

 

Wounded soldiers require a logistical tail. 2 stretcher bearers, medic, aid station (personel). Transport to MASH (personel). Transport to rear convalescence. PR about the ghastly wounds.  Lots of people tied up in taking care of 1 wounded guy.  And if he's an experienced hand the fng that replaces him is going to cause an overall decrease in unit effectiveness and be more likely to get wounded and start the cycle all over

[Pat Riot]

Carpet bombing = no wounded to deal with 

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

I have a book, (from my Uncle Ernie, a WWI vet), that describes and depicts the effects of bullets reversed in the cases and the results of the wounds inflicted from those and other types of expanding bullets, encountered in WWI, along with discussions about the effects of Mustard and Chlorine Gas, protections and treatment.

[Sedalia Dave]

4 hours ago, Texas Joker said:

Dead soldiers can be dealt with later. 1 loss

 

Wounded soldiers require a logistical tail. 2 stretcher bearers, medic, aid station (personel). Transport to MASH (personel). Transport to rear convalescence. PR about the ghastly wounds.  Lots of people tied up in taking care of 1 wounded guy.  And if he's an experienced hand the fng that replaces him is going to cause an overall decrease in unit effectiveness and be more likely to get wounded and start the cycle all over

 

True when we were fighting in "civilized wars on European soil". Not true today. The radicalized terrorists of today are worse than the brainwashed Japanese of WWII. Today, their only goal is to take as many with them as they can.

 

Look at Hamas and Hezbollah, thousands wounded and it hasn't slowed them down in the least.. 

 

Or look at what is happening with the Houthi terrorists in Yemen. They are more than happy to fight a war of attrition. They send a $25,000 UAV or USV to attack shipping in the Red Sea and we have to counter it with a Million dollar missile. We bomb their launch facilities with at a cost of hundreds of millions of dollars and it has zero impact to their capabilities.

 

We lost in Iraq and EVERY nation that has fought in Afghanistan has lost because they don't care about casualties. They win because every occupying army eventually looses because their citizens cannot stomach their own casualties or collateral damaged no matter which side is responsible. 

 

War has changed and is becoming increasingly more brutal. Army's loose not due to a lack of superior fire power but because they cannot win over the media.

Edited August 9 by Sedalia Dave

[Texas Joker]

We refuse to commit to a war. We simply fight 'police actions'. 

 

Houthis could be dealt with by an MEU And a one page frag order of fix it and win.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

On 8/8/2024 at 6:47 PM, Blackwater 53393 said:

“Dum dum” was a descriptive term used for lead bullets that had the tip defaced to cause extra expansion.  
 

A lot of them had an X or a cross cut or filed in the tip.

 

I believe it was coined in the twenties!  The 1920s!!

Came from the Dumdum Arsenal in India.  Many were cast that way.

[J-BAR #18287]

On 8/9/2024 at 11:10 AM, Texas Joker said:

 

Wounded soldiers require a logistical tail. 2 stretcher bearers, medic, aid station (personel). Transport to MASH (personel). Transport to rear convalescence. PR about the ghastly wounds.  Lots of people tied up in taking care of 1 wounded guy.  And if he's an experienced hand the fng that replaces him is going to cause an overall decrease in unit effectiveness and be more likely to get wounded and start the cycle all over

If they are Americans.  Otherwise not so much.

[watab kid]

a few years back we had a jihadist Attack at our local mall ,multiple  stabbings of innocent shoppers , an off duty cop stopped it but it took multiple 9mm rounds at close range because he did just that - kept coming [probably on something] until he was neutralized , not a great day here 

[Linn Keller, SASS 27332, BOLD 103]

My Fire Department mentor had been a B17 pilot in the Second Disagreement.

Pilots everywhere speak a common language, pilots everywhere compare their aircraft to what someone else is flying, my now-deceased friend was discussing matters with a British Lancaster pilot over a cold one, and the conversation turned to the issue sidearm.

Their conversation touched on both major facets of this thread.

An Army Air Force captain, descended from a certain jurist from Colorado I've written about, expressed his appreciation for the size of the hopper in the Browning 9mm the Brits carried.

His British counterpart laughed and said, "Old boy, in Europe, war is a civilized thing: a man is shot, he says 'Oh I've been shot,' he lays down and stops fighting.

"You Yanks, now ... you Yanks fight such uncivilized and nahsty sorts that you actually have to KILL them, and that's why you have to carry such big guns!" -- referring to the slab sided Democratic Laundromatic.

I'm not sure if that was the night he heel locked a bigmouthed shavetail and had him snapping salutes at the barmaids or not ... when he was of a mood to speak, I was inclined to listen ...

 

[Alpo]

5 hours ago, watab kid said:

a few years back we had a jihadist Attack at our local mall ,multiple  stabbings of innocent shoppers , an off duty cop stopped it but it took multiple 9mm rounds at close range because he did just that - kept coming [probably on something] until he was neutralized , not a great day here 

That was the reason for the 45 automatic.

 

In the Philippines the local Muslims got hopped up on bhang and ran amok, killing all the white soldiers they could find. The soldiers would shoot them with their 38 Long Colt revolvers, which had little to no effect. If they shot them with their 30-40 Krag rifle they fell down and died. But they acted like they didn't feel the 38 bullets. So the Army reissued the 45 single action, and started looking for a new more powerful gun with a bullet size of 45. Enter 1911.

[watab kid]

yes - they were running the 45colt in the M1909 revolvers , i have both the M1892-1905 in 38LC as well as that M1909 ,in 45coltin my collection , really nice revolvers , the M1917 was the same as the M1909  in 45acp , co;lt made the predecessors but both colt and s^wmade the M1917 ,  

[Pat Riot]

Adding weight to a crazy is a sure way to stop the crazy. 
 

[bgavin]

On 8/11/2024 at 5:50 AM, Alpo said:

That was the reason for the 45 automatic.

 

Yep.
You beat me to it.

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

On 8/11/2024 at 2:59 AM, watab kid said:

a few years back we had a jihadist Attack at our local mall ,multiple  stabbings of innocent shoppers , an off duty cop stopped it but it took multiple 9mm rounds at close range because he did just that - kept coming [probably on something] until he was neutralized , not a great day here 

Was he not using Jacketed Hollow Points?

Even here in Ontario, Canada, they are mandated for police use.

[watab kid]

2 hours ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said:

Was he not using Jacketed Hollow Points?

Even here in Ontario, Canada, they are mandated for police use.

actually i dont know , he was off duty carrying his off duty gun , thats all i know of that , i could ask him next time i see him but not sure when that will be , 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

On 8/9/2024 at 6:58 AM, Stump Water said:

 

An enemy combatant wounded takes one or two others out of the fight.

 

One of the reasons the .223 Rem/5.56 was adopted.   Although you won't find that "documented" anywhere.

Not much of this is true.  An enemy combatant may lay there untreated until he dies.

 

The 5.56 was originally designed to enable a soldier to carry much more ammo.

[watab kid]

11 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

Not much of this is true.  An enemy combatant may lay there untreated until he dies.

 

The 5.56 was originally designed to enable a soldier to carry much more ammo.

that was my understanding as well , 

[Pat Riot]

23 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

The 5.56 was originally designed to enable a soldier to carry much more ammo.

That’s what I learned in the Navy. At that time the Navy used M14s, but there was talk of phasing them out for the M16. Apparently the CNO wanted to switch but had no idea the M14 wasn’t just for shooting bad guys and keeping sharks at bay, but it was also used for shot lines and such. 
 

Carry mags with 100 rounds of 7.62x51 and an M14 and then do the same with 100 rounds of 5.56x45 and an M4. Big weight difference.