BATF and Firearm Searchable Database

[bgavin]

From VCDL:

 

The BATFE said they traced the gun used to shoot at Trump in 30 minutes!

Keeping in mind that since it is ILLEGAL for the BATFE to have a searchable gun-registration database, then riddle me this:  
how could BATFE get that trace done in 30 minutes without such a searchable database if they had to:

• Contact the manufacturer of the rifle ON A SATURDAY to get the distributor the gun was sold to
• Contact the distributor of the rifle ON A SATURDAY to get the dealer the gun was sold to
• Discover the dealer was out of business and BATFE had the dealer’s records
• Have an employee manually go through all those records looking for the rifle and then pull the purchaser’s information

So BATFE doesn’t have a gun registry - wait – was that a pig that just flew by my window?!

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

No, but they’re having a cold front in Hell!!

[DeaconKC]

They get a hold of the Manufacturer, who tells them what distributor it went to. The Distributor then gives the information of what dealer purchased the gun. The dealer then looks it up in their records.

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

Since it was used to shoot the former President, I suppos that requests may have been expedited at all levels.

[Blackwater 53393]

And my ass is a Chinese typewriter!!  

[DeaconKC]

3 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

And my ass is a Chinese typewriter!!  

Oh, and I definitely believe that the Feds are keeping every record they can, even in violation of the GCA 68.

[Alpo]

One of the theories about Kennedy was that the CIA was involved.

 

If the ATF was involved in this attempt on Trump then they would certainly be able to find out where the gun come from quickly. They got it in the first place.

 

Am I the only one that considers that conspiracy?

[Rye Miles #13621]

It was his father's gun, all they had to do was go to the gunshop where he purchased it. I'm sure Ol' dad complied.

[J.D. Daily]

7 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

It was his father's gun, all they had to do was go to the gunshop where he purchased it. I'm sure Ol' dad complied.

The gun shop is out of business so the ATF has the DROS.

[Rye Miles #13621]

5 minutes ago, J.D. Daily said:

The gun shop is out of business so the ATF has the DROS.

Ahh gotcha, you are correct sir!!

[bgavin]

3 hours ago, DeaconKC said:

They get a hold of the Manufacturer, who tells them what distributor it went to. The Distributor then gives the information of what dealer purchased the gun. The dealer then looks it up in their records.

All on Saturday, and in 30 minutes?
This is gonna give the gov't a big black eye... everybody knows they can't answer the phone in 30 minutes, let alone get anything done.

[John Kloehr]

From:

 

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/IF12057.pdf

 

ATF Collection of Transaction Records and Final Rule
A January 2022 ATF fact sheet indicated the bureau had collected 54.7 million firearms transaction records in 2021 from FFLs who had gone out of business. Responding to a congressional inquiry, ATF later reported November 2021 holdings of nearly 921 million out-of-business records, 94% of which were computerized, as of November 2021.

 

When ATF digitizes records, they are turned into images that cannot be detected using optical character recognition and can only be accessed for firearm tracing. Every trace requires ATF to review each FFL record and are only accessed to complete these requests.

 

Under Final Rule 2021R-05F, record retention requires FFLs to maintain their Firearms Transaction Records (Form 4473) until they discontinue licensed activity. It allows for paper records older than 20 years to be stored at a warehouse that is subject to inspection. Alternatively, these forms can be stored electronically in an ATF-accessible, read-only format and with a minimum of one electronic access point for every 500 Forms 4473 executed over the previous year. ATF maintains that its revised record retention requirements are authorized and instrumental for firearms tracing.

[Rye Miles #13621]

14 minutes ago, bgavin said:

All on Saturday, and in 30 minutes?
This is gonna give the gov't a big black eye... everybody knows they can't answer the phone in 30 minutes, let alone get anything done.

Look back at what J.D. Daily said.

[bgavin]

So therefore, the BATF has a database of gun registrations.

[John Kloehr]

6 minutes ago, bgavin said:

So therefore, the BATF has a database of gun registrations.

The ATF has a database of firearms transfers.

 

Given a serial number, it can look up who the transfer (4473) was too.

 

Given the way the disclosures are written, the ATF can not look up all guns transferred to an individual... Or a list of gun owners... And this is of course a matter of trust.

 

The disclosures also indicate the ATF has a list of prohibited individuals who have attempted a transfer.

 

[bgavin]

So, the BATF has an online database of gun registrations.
No matter how you spin it, they have the ability to quickly search and find what they want.
 

I live in CA, and know full well that all DROS is available 24x7 to LEOs, but now to "researchers" who are not law enforcement.

This is very comprehensive.

-------------------
Firearm DROS
-------------------
• Purchaser's First, Middle and Last Name
• Alias First, Middle and Last Name
• Street Address, City, State, ZIP'
• Telephone number
• ID Type, ID Number
• Gender
• Race
• Eye Color
• Hair Color
• Height and Weight
• Date of Birth
• Place of Birth
• U.S. Citizen
• Firearm Safety Course number
• Make
• Model
• Caliber(s)
• Serial Number
• Other Number
• Type
• Category
• Color
• Barrel Length
• Frame/Receiver Only
• New or Used
• FSD Compliance
• Material
• Comment

 

 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

1 hour ago, Alpo said:

If the ATF was involved in this attempt on Trump then they would certainly be able to find out where the gun come from quickly. They got it in the first place.

 

Am I the only one that considers that conspiracy?

Not THAT conspiracy. If the ATF were involved, the records they were "looking for" would never have been found. Lost, destroyed, or something else. 

Now if it were the CIA.... (Personally I think that THEY did JFK.)

[Sedalia Dave]

1 hour ago, John Kloehr said:

When ATF digitizes records, they are turned into images that cannot be detected using optical character recognition and can only be accessed for firearm tracing. Every trace requires ATF to review each FFL record and are only accessed to complete these requests.

 

There is absolutely no way a person could scan a database of 54.7million records visually and come up with an answer in 30 minutes.

 

BTW, There is no such thing as a picture of text that cannot be scanned using OCR software by a government with unlimited resources. The post office does it 10's of millions of times every day. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, bgavin said:

So, the BATF has an online database of gun registrations.
No matter how you spin it, they have the ability to quickly search and find what they want.
 

I live in CA, and know full well that all DROS is available 24x7 to LEOs, but now to "researchers" who are not law enforcement.

This is very comprehensive.

-------------------
Firearm DROS
-------------------
• Purchaser's First, Middle and Last Name
• Alias First, Middle and Last Name
• Street Address, City, State, ZIP'
• Telephone number
• ID Type, ID Number
• Gender
• Race
• Eye Color
• Hair Color
• Height and Weight
• Date of Birth
• Place of Birth
• U.S. Citizen
• Firearm Safety Course number
• Make
• Model
• Caliber(s)
• Serial Number
• Other Number
• Type
• Category
• Color
• Barrel Length
• Frame/Receiver Only
• New or Used
• FSD Compliance
• Material
• Comment

 

 

That’s California not everywhere. ATF only has records of FFLs that have gone out of business. They can however come in an FFL dealer and search records anytime they want to check for guns used in crimes or to check for errors, I worked at a gunshop/range and it happened once while I was there, 

They had records from the gunshop that apparently went out of business where the shooter’s dad bought the AR used in the attempted assassination. 

[John Kloehr]

52 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

BTW, There is no such thing as a picture of text that cannot be scanned using OCR software by a government with unlimited resources. The post office does it 10's of millions of times every day. 

Yes, I know that too. It is the equivalent of a marketing claim, or an engineering spec.

 

It can be done, but they have not done so. What they have done is a scan as a human-readable picture indexed in a database by manufacturer and serial number.

 

Anyway, I will stop here but I do have concerns.

[sassnetguy50]

2 hours ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

Not THAT conspiracy. If the ATF were involved, the records they were "looking for" would never have been found. Lost, destroyed, or something else. 

Now if it were the CIA.... (Personally I think that THEY did JFK.)

I disagree, they would want the records found.  Then they could say "see?  These legal purchases are bad.  We need to abolish all guns."

[sassnetguy50]

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

That’s California not everywhere. ATF only has records of FFLs that have gone out of business. They can however come in an FFL dealer and search records anytime they want to check for guns used in crimes or to check for errors, I worked at a gunshop/range and it happened once while I was there, 

They had records from the gunshop that apparently went out of business where the shooter’s dad bought the AR used in the attempted assassination. 

ATF also has some records of active FFLs from the E form, 3310.4 form, and boarder purchase reports.  I heard FFLs can turn in their records over 20 years old instead of storing them now, don't know this for a fact.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

I realize you guys are just frightened out of your skulls by Big Brother.  However, nothing in this entire thread has anything of substance to contribute to anything that makes any difference at all to the subject matter at hand.  Just lots of drivel and pointless chest thumping.  Sheesh. 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

Big Brother IS watching you in spite of the rules and laws and Constitutional guarantees.

[watab kid]

i know the manufacturer - he knew on Saturday , i knew it on Sunday , they are put of business since the Remington/freedom group debacle , the news media says it was legally transferred from his father to him , wonder if he will be facing any after charges ? 

not sure which rifle it was but they made millions of them for LE , Gubmint and commercial sales - its not the rifle - its the perp that we should be concerned with , but then i agree that since the BATF are forbidden from having such a database thats really concerning as well , but we all know that the laws dont apply to them in the end , its only going to be on us honest citizens - wonder whats up with hunters convictions ? any penalties or was that part of the deal with biden bowing out ? 

[Rye Miles #13621]

48 minutes ago, sassnetguy50 said:

ATF also has some records of active FFLs from the E form, 3310.4 form, and boarder purchase reports.  I heard FFLs can turn in their records over 20 years old instead of storing them now, don't know this for a fact.

I doubt any FFLs would turn over anything they don’t have to! Just MHO

[Rye Miles #13621]

26 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

I realize you guys are just frightened out of your skulls by Big Brother.  However, nothing in this entire thread has anything of substance to contribute to anything that makes any difference at all to the subject matter at hand.  Just lots of drivel and pointless chest thumping.  Sheesh. 

What have I said that was drivel and pointless? Look back at what I said. I didn’t say anything that implied I was frightened by big brother. What I said was how it works. Cmon Bro gimme a break! 🤠

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

OOPS.  Sorry Rye.  Too wide a brush