Crinkled Brass After Reloading on my Dillion 650

[Texas Maverick]

I am starting to see some reloads that have crinkled brass. It seems to be about every 6th or 7th round out of 10. I am getting ready to take the shell plate off and clean under it and just an overall cleaning of the head. Anyone else have any suggestions or know what is causing this issue? I am only using 3.5 grains of CleanShot so the shell isn't packed with powder. The brass has a nice bell on it and the lead projectile fits into the brass fine. It is crinkled enough that it doesn't fit into my case gauge so catches them but I would like to find the cause and get it corrected.

 

Thanks for any input on this issue.

 

TM

 

[Rip Snorter]

Call Dillon! Are you sorting your brass by size?

[Leroy Luck]

Which station is it doing it on?

[Blackwater 53393]

Check your cases after each station on the press to find where it’s happening! Also spot check your brass to be sure that the cases don’t need trimming!!

[Eyesa Horg]

Is it possible that you are way over crimping?

[Krazy Kajun]

3 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Is it possible that you are way over crimping?

^^^^^this.  Check your crimp die by backing it just a little and see if that cures it.  I've had the same problem on my 650 and that is what it was.

 

Kajun

[OK Dirty Dan]

Are you using a combination seat/crimp die? This has happened to me before when I have the die body screwed too far down such that the crimp starts being applied before the seating action is completed. I still use the combo dies but I make double sure they're backed off enough not to crimp, and I then crimp in a separate station.

[Hells Comin]

Is your station pin in place at position 5 and the right #

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Yes, that is due to pressure applied to the bullet that then transfers to the case, crumpling it

 

Usually a seat and crimp in one die causes this.   Although if you are not careful, even a two die set seating with one and crimping with the other can still be adjusted to crush a long case.  Along with cases of varying lengths.  The longest cases have the mouth tight up against the crimp groove's top.  Crimping then means that there is no place for the mouth of the case to turn into the groove.  So the case gives way.

 

You also have more crimp than is needed.  Back off the seater stem to let the mouth come to the middle of the bullet's crimp groove, and back off the die itself to lessen the AMOUNT of crimp being formed.  

 

You may need to do this in two steps.   Back off both the die body and the seater stem by a turn or two.

Lower the seater stem of the die to put the edge of the mouth in the middle of the crimp groove.

Then lower the die body (and slightly raise the seater stem before) until you form enough crimp turn in to hold the bullet.  Now the die body is set.

Try the next bullet by adding back the same amount of rotation that you took off the stem, back onto the stem. 

Check that you still have a good crimp and it's located a business card thickness below contacting the bullet band right above the crimp groove.

You have to have that "free space" between the mouth and the band of lead to prevent contact and the crushing.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

 

 

 

[Old Irish Shooter]

Crimp die needs adjusted. This happened to me when I was using mixed manufacturers. I now use Starline exclusively and after adjusting for these I have not had a problem. I also crimp in a separate stage to reduce this problem.

[Lead Monger]

Way too much crimp. Back the seating/crimp die off and correct the over all length as required.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

If you can, seat and crimp in 2 separate stations. 

Make sure you are using enough case mouth flare to let the bullet enter.

[watab kid]

my friend had this with his dillon 650 it was his crimp - it had gotten lose to the point bullets moved then he retightened a bit too much , its fixed now 

[Texas Maverick]

2 hours ago, Rip Snorter said:

Call Dillon! Are you sorting your brass by size?

Not sure what sorting you are asking about. It is sorted by caliber. 

 

TM

[Texas Maverick]

2 hours ago, Leroy Luck said:

Which station is it doing it on?

Not really sure. I don't notice it until I take it our of the tray and put it in the case gauge.

 

TM

[Texas Maverick]

2 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Is it possible that you are way over crimping?

I can back it off some and see if that helps.

 

TM

[Texas Maverick]

2 hours ago, Krazy Kajun said:

^^^^^this.  Check your crimp die by backing it just a little and see if that cures it.  I've had the same problem on my 650 and that is what it was.

 

Kajun

Will try this.

 

TM

[Rip Snorter]

3 minutes ago, Texas Maverick said:

Not sure what sorting you are asking about. It is sorted by caliber. 

 

TM

I have found reloading life to be more pleasant down the decades when I sort first by manufacturer and then case length.  By caliber, without question.

[Texas Maverick]

2 hours ago, OK Dirty Dan said:

Are you using a combination seat/crimp die? This has happened to me before when I have the die body screwed too far down such that the crimp starts being applied before the seating action is completed. I still use the combo dies but I make double sure they're backed off enough not to crimp, and I then crimp in a separate station.

Same here, combo die seats the bullet and then the last station does the crimping.

 

TM

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

A combination die seats and crimps in one die.   You are using two dies, at two stations.  So, seat less deep, put mouth at the middle of the crimp groove.

 

Then crimp less - just enough that you can see a turn in, you are smashing a heavy crimp in from the pictures.

 

good luck, GJ

[Hells Comin]

I noticed it was more prevalent with bayou bullets - no so much with badman bullets

I'm seating/ crimping at one station 

 

[Cholla]

1 hour ago, Texas Maverick said:

Not sure what sorting you are asking about. It is sorted by caliber. 

 

TM

Length. If the case has stretched, it can cause problems and they need to be trimmed back to the starting point. But, I have never had straight-wall pistol brass grow so long that it caused this issue.

[Reverend P. Babcock Chase]

Howdy Texas,

 

I noticed a similar problem while loading my .45 Colt mixed brass. I seat and taper crimp separately. I measured my mixed cases and found that, having set up my crimp station with some of the shorter cases, the longer cases were being over crimped. Trimmed all the cases that were long and the problem went away. By the way, I use a Lyman two step "M" expanding die adjusted to just let the bullet fit the case mouth with almost no "belling". Then with the taper crimp, the case mouth is worked as little as possible. With Cowboy level loads my case life is almost infinite. I can't remember more that a few split cases in 20 years. This is using light, but not gamer, level loads.

 

Rev. Chase

[Eyesa Horg]

9 hours ago, Texas Maverick said:

I can back it off some and see if that helps.

 

TM

I think I'd back that crimp die off a bunch and run some through uncrimped and see if the issue disappears and then readjust the crimp die if all is good. For as best I can see in the pic, they look way over crimped to me. But then, I haven't slept at Holiday Inn in a quite a while.

[Sam Sackett]

Is there a chance a few 357 cases got mixed in with your 38’s?

 

Sam Sackett 

[Eyesa Horg]

Although you'd notice that real quick  when you place the bullet at the seating station.

[Rance - SASS # 54090]

11 hours ago, Texas Maverick said:

Same here, combo die seats the bullet and then the last station does the crimping.

 

TM

Ok.. ain’t the sharpest knife in the drawer but..

Sounds like your using 2 crimp dies to me.. in 2 different stations..

that would certainly give you too much crimp..

I’d try backing off the last one as it seems the first one

is already doing yer crimping..

Just sayin’

[Texas Maverick]

14 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Is it possible that you are way over crimping?

I guess I could be. I have had others check my crimps and all thought they were good. I will back it off some and see if that helps. I have loaded around 10,000 rounds without issue. This just started during the last couple hundred rounds and I get 1 or 2 out of around 10 loads. 

 

Thanks

 

TM

[Texas Maverick]

14 hours ago, Hells Comin said:

Is your station pin in place at position 5 and the right #

yes

 

TM

[Texas Maverick]

11 hours ago, Hells Comin said:

I noticed it was more prevalent with bayou bullets - no so much with badman bullets

I'm seating/ crimping at one station 

 

I am using Cimarron Bullets which is now Boss Bullets. 

 

TM

[Texas Maverick]

10 hours ago, Cholla said:

Length. If the case has stretched, it can cause problems and they need to be trimmed back to the starting point. But, I have never had straight-wall pistol brass grow so long that it caused this issue.

Me either, quess I can get a case gauge and start checking them for length.

 

Thanks

 

TM

[Texas Maverick]

2 hours ago, Sam Sackett said:

Is there a chance a few 357 cases got mixed in with your 38’s?

 

Sam Sackett 

I have had a few but they get caught pretty quick. Maybe 2 or 3 in the last year have slipped by my checking.

 

TM

[Texas Maverick]

26 minutes ago, Rance - SASS # 54090 said:

Ok.. ain’t the sharpest knife in the drawer but..

Sounds like your using 2 crimp dies to me.. in 2 different stations..

that would certainly give you too much crimp..

I’d try backing off the last one as it seems the first one

is already doing yer crimping..

Just sayin’

I can try that. I have the seating/crimping die set right now to basically just seat the bullet. I let the next station with the crimp die do the crimping. I will back off on the crimp and see if that helps.

 

Thanks

 

TM 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Hey Mav, since this just started, can you remember adjusting anything recently?  I would do the cleaning you mentioned, make sure everything is tight, and then just start loading slowly.  It seems to happen often enough that you should be able to spot where it is happening.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Quote

This just started during the last couple hundred rounds and I get 1 or 2 out of around 10 loads. 

 

Ok, then your seater die probably picked up enough dirt and lube to make the seating "half a turn" too deep.  Clean the stem of the seater die (and body if dirty in the bore), then adjust to seat to MIDDLE of the crimp groove, not touching the band at top.

 

Happens to all of us cast boolit loaders, eventually even to the folks loading poly coated slugs.  GJ