Sun Tzu

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare.

Sun Tzu, The Art of War

[Yul Lose]

Some nations are real slow learners, just saying.

[John Kloehr]

There are multiple translations and commentaries on the text, but it is a wise read.

 

This book is required reading for all Japanese MBA (or close to what the Western system considers MBA) candidates.

 

And the Japanese philosophy back when I was involved in this stuff was "Win." It was not "Win-Win" (typical of American business philosophy at the time) nor was it "Win-Lose." Just a very simple negotiating stance to simply "Win."

 

This was a crucial element to understand in a business negotiation from a Western standpoint. The Japanese were not out to hurt us but neither were they trying to help. Our success or failure was simply irrelevant to them.

 

We (both teams) read the book again (I do not recall which translation, we used the same). We (both teams) talked about how we each interpreted the lessons. We (my) team learned a bit about how the Japanese were not motivated to have us succeed, it just did not matter. They learned we actually did want them to succeed, but not at our expense.

 

Once we got into these discussions, they went much longer than originally planned. Both teams took to heart that "the battle is already won or lost before the armies ever engage." Or something like that. So we both put off engaging until we were both confident in success.

 

But on edit: Which conflict or conflicts are you referring too?

[Alpo]

I thought he was talking about the 30 years we've been in the sandbox.

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

41 minutes ago, Alpo said:

I thought he was talking about the 30 years we've been in the sandbox.

 

30 years?  We've been there since 1948 in various ways.  

 

 

[Alpo]

"Never get involved in a land war in Asia."

 

You suppose nobody told those morons in Washington that the Persian Gulf is in Asia?

[Sedalia Dave]

11 hours ago, Alpo said:

"Never get involved in a land war in Asia."

 

Found this on the internet. Pretty much sums it up.

 

The historical answer: Because it never turns out well, Just ask Napoleon, Hitler, Alexander the Great, the Japanese, the Russians, etc.

 

The "Risk" answer: Because it's got too many territories to take and hold in one turn and too many borders to defend once you take it.

 

The real answer: Asia is a really big continent with really big countries that are filled with a lot of people, a lot of mountains, a lot of forests, and a lot of snow.

 

It's just hard to move men, armor, and supplies easily through such terrain. If one tried to invade Asia by going through the Middle East and into Central Asia, they'd hit no less than six different mountain ranges including the Hindu Kush, the Himalayas and the Pamir Mountains; essentially, you'd run into a wall of mountains which would make it really hard to advance. If one tried to invade Asia in the north, through Russia, they'd hit the Ural Mountains and would eventually be forced to fight in a whole bunch of snow, something most armies aren't all that well-trained to do. If you approached from the East, via the sea, you'd run into all the problems of an amphibious landing and assault approach.

 

That being said, even if you managed to get around the problem of moving your men and their supplies, you'd better have a pretty large army to hold on to any parts you can take because Asia is pretty big place; to put it in perspective, the US was stretched somewhat thin trying to hold two countries, both of which could fit inside Mongolia.

 

 

[Sedalia Dave]

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Alpo said:

You suppose nobody told those morons in Washington that the Persian Gulf is in Asia?

 

 

Those morons are too busy erasing history not learning from it.

 

I'm also betting they never played Risk

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

I have read it several times.  It is very good.

 

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

21 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

I'm also betting they never played Risk

Take Australia first. Easiest to defend. Mass your armies. Move when ready. 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

The cover work on many copies of art of war suggest that he wore a man bun.

[J-BAR #18287]

On 1/29/2024 at 8:47 AM, Sedalia Dave said:

you'd better have a pretty large army to hold on to any parts you can take because Asia is pretty big place...

 

I thought Grant proved that wars are not won by occupying territory, but by killing enemy soldiers.

[Alpo]

I thought that was Patton.

 

"...make the other poor dumb bastard die for HIS country!"

[Phantom Falcon, SASS # 46139]

2 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

I thought Grant proved that wars are not won by occupying territory, but by killing enemy soldiers.

 

You cannot kill all the enemy soldiers in Asia. Better to follow Ike's advice and stay the hell out of there. All the presidents since GHWB have pissed away all our resources with nothing to show for it but flag-draped coffins. 

 

PF

[DocWard]

On 1/28/2024 at 10:15 PM, Alpo said:

"Never get involved in a land war in Asia."

 

 

What if you have iocane powder?

[J-BAR #18287]

2 hours ago, Phantom Falcon, SASS # 46139 said:

 

You cannot kill all the enemy soldiers in Asia. Better to follow Ike's advice and stay the hell out of there. All the presidents since GHWB have pissed away all our resources with nothing to show for it but flag-draped coffins. 

 

PF

Actually I agree.  When the civilians are the enemy, there is no way to win.

[Alpo]

1 hour ago, DocWard said:

 

What if you have iocane powder?

I think that would only work if you were fighting in Australia, or if you were the Australian Army.

[Ozark Huckleberry]

11 hours ago, DocWard said:

 

What if you have iocane powder?

 

That only works if you have enough for your army to gradually develop an immunity to it.

[DocWard]

39 minutes ago, Ozark Huckleberry said:

 

That only works if you have enough for your army to gradually develop an immunity to it.

 

Ah, Sure, sure.

[Phantom Falcon, SASS # 46139]

22 hours ago, DocWard said:

 

What if you have iocane powder?

I don't know what this is!

 

PF

[DocWard]

8 minutes ago, Phantom Falcon, SASS # 46139 said:

I don't know what this is!

 

PF

 

 

 

[Alpo]

If I had never seen The Princess Bride, I don't think I would tell anyone.

[J-BAR #18287]

1 hour ago, Alpo said:

If I had never seen The Princess Bride, I don't think I would tell anyone.

Inconceivable.

 

well, someone had to say it.

[DocWard]

14 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Inconceivable.

 

well, someone had to say it.

 

To paraphrase, I do think that word means what you think it means!

[watab kid]

ive never seen the princess bride and im proud to say it ,, unless someone gives me a redeeming factor that will recommend it to my satisfaction , 

[DocWard]

2 hours ago, watab kid said:

ive never seen the princess bride and im proud to say it ,, unless someone gives me a redeeming factor that will recommend it to my satisfaction , 

 

"Are you kidding? Fencing, fighting, torture, revenge, giants, monsters, chases, escapes, true love, miracles..."

 

Peter Falk, Andre the Giant, Billy Crystal. Clever writing, funny to downright hilarious scenes, some of the most quotable scenes ever. There are likely a number of references on this forum alone you missed because you've not seen it.

[Ozark Huckleberry]

2 hours ago, DocWard said:

 

"Are you kidding? Fencing, fighting, torture, revenge, giants, monsters, chases, escapes, true love, miracles..."

 

Peter Falk, Andre the Giant, Billy Crystal. Clever writing, funny to downright hilarious scenes, some of the most quotable scenes ever. There are likely a number of references on this forum alone you missed because you've not seen it.

Add in the Noble Quest, chivalry, honor, complete absence of obscenity either spoken or displayed, good’s triumph over evil . . . 
 

[Chantry]

4 hours ago, watab kid said:

ive never seen the princess bride and im proud to say it ,, unless someone gives me a redeeming factor that will recommend it to my satisfaction , 

 

You heathen!!!  

 

I've watched The Princess Bride numerous times, its one of those rare films that never gets old or boring no matter how often you watch.

 

I'm no fan of Rob Reiner the person, but this was an extremely well directed and well acted movie, that operates very well a move good for small children while the adults can laugh at the jokes the children won't even see.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Princess_Bride_(film)

[Alpo]

1 hour ago, Ozark Huckleberry said:

Add in the Noble Quest, chivalry, honor, complete absence of obscenity either spoken or displayed, good’s triumph over evil . . . 
 

Don't forget the most romantic kiss in the history of kissing.

[Chuck Steak]

7 hours ago, watab kid said:

ive never seen the princess bride and im proud to say it ,, unless someone gives me a redeeming factor that will recommend it to my satisfaction , 

 

Submitted for review and consideration is my deconstruction of a key supporting character, Inigo Montoya. His character has a redeeming quality that reinforces themes of loyalty and determination - an ability to carry out a task to its completion, and a love of friends and family.

 

In one of his early roles, Mandy Patinkin played the character of Inigo Montoya as a swashbuckling revenge seeker - but the subtext is much deeper than just "swashbuckling revenge seeker".  

Two of the most well known movie quotes of all time belong to this character:

 

"You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means"

He shows that in spite of his rugged exterior and seemingly hardened heart that he also posses an intellectual knowledge much greater than many of his peers might give him credit for - and that he is not afraid to challenge those around him on an intellectual level even when it might be easier to just look the other way and feign ignorance.  In the context of Sun Tzu, it shows that Inigo is well aware of the need to "know your enemy" and the importance of being acutely aware of your surroundings when you are on the battlefield.

 

“Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die”

This iconic phrase has a much deeper meaning than just communicating a simple threat to a lifelong foe.  It serves as an example for ALL to follow when dealing with others.  It gives us a template on how to successfully handle any relationship - be it a friend or foe.

- Hello. - Always offer a polite greeting to everyone you meet. There is no need to be rude since you never know where the interaction might lead. A polite greeting also leaves you with options. You can break off an engagement without further conflict or expectations or you can escalate the exchange to more deliberate conversation and even violence if pushed into a more serious confrontation.

- My name is Inigo Montoya.  Introduce yourself.  People want to know who they are dealing with.  Who are you anyway?  Are you the mail man?  Are you here to deliver a pizza?  Making your presence known is a strong way of showing that you are here in the present and ready to interact in a lasting and meaningful way - good or bad.

- You killed my father.  Establish a common ground.  Find a way to relate to the people you are interacting with on a personal level.  Humanize yourself.  It allows you to work from a stronger position when you are able to set the condition.  

- Prepare to die.  Set realistic and achievable expectations early in your relationships.  

 

 

Yes indeed.  The Princess Bride isn't just a slapstick comedy with unrealistic character arcs and a disjointed story line.  It is a cautionary tale of love and loss and redemption that can help us all live a better life.

...or so I've been told.  

[watab kid]

14 hours ago, DocWard said:

 

"Are you kidding? Fencing, fighting, torture, revenge, giants, monsters, chases, escapes, true love, miracles..."

 

Peter Falk, Andre the Giant, Billy Crystal. Clever writing, funny to downright hilarious scenes, some of the most quotable scenes ever. There are likely a number of references on this forum alone you missed because you've not seen it.

i guess its one to add to my list ? 

[J-BAR #18287]

34 minutes ago, watab kid said:

i guess its one to add to my list ? 

Got grandkids?  Watch it together!

[watab kid]

i do - 6 - ill put it on that list 

[Alpo]

The only thing I dislike about the entire movie.

 

Peter Falk, Grandpa, is reading a story to Fred Savage, the sick grandson. And he tells him that his grandfather read him that story when he was a sick little boy.

 

The movie was made in 1987, but the novel wasn't written until 1973. So great great grandpa could not have read it to Grandpa when Grandpa was sick.

 

I hate it when grandparents lie.

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

“There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world. It would be a pity to damage yours.”