73, vs 92, vs Marlin, vs Lighting

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

I found myself thinking, is there an objective way to determine which rifle is the fastest?  I got to thinking that the best way to do it is have the same shooter try the guns in question, and see how they come out.

Then it occurred to me that I happen to own, unmodified, an original Winchester 73, Winchester 92, Marlin 1888 and a Colt Lighting, all in .32-20.  And, I am a lower mid to bottom of the pack shooter.  This truly would be a test of the GUNS, not the shooter.  I figure I'll go out and do 2 left to right sweeps of 5 targets, 1 doubletap left to right on 5, and 1 "dump" on a single target.  

All I need to find is someone to operate the timer, and record it all.

Or find someone else who can do it before I get a chance.

Notice that with all the guns in the same caliber, all vintage, unmodified guns, and all fired by the same shooter, (who is mediocre at best speed wise) the only real variable is the guns.  Do others agree that this is an objective test?

Edited January 5 by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

What about the individual's skill and familiarity with each firearm obtained through continuous use?

All such a test would "prove" is how proficient that shooter is with those particular rifles.

 

...and most timers have a delay function that would allow the shooter to "self-start" with each rifle in the same ready position.

[Warden Callaway]

If you could video record the event and have edit software,  you can measure the time down to a frame. 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

1 hour ago, Warden Callaway said:

If you could video record the event and have edit software,  you can measure the time down to a frame. 

 

1/30th or 1/60th of a second?

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

1 hour ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

What about the individual's skill and familiarity with each firearm obtained through continuous use?

All such a test would "prove" is how proficient that shooter is with those particular rifles.

 

...and most timers have a delay function that would allow the shooter to "self-start" with each rifle in the same ready position.

Did not know the delay function existed, so that's a plus.

 

I suppose that even if all 4 rifles are owned by the same shooter, the shooter very well may do better with his or her favorite of the four.

It has been argued that there is no such thing as a truly objective test.  That may be true.  This was just as close to one as I could think of.

[Warden Callaway]

1 hour ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

1/30th or 1/60th of a second?

Depends on you camera settings.  1/30 I think is standard.  Most cameras (smart phones) can do 1/60 also. 

[Warden Callaway]

Embarrassing performance.  But here is the time study video I made.  I don't need faster guns. I need faster feet and hands.

 

 

 

[Reverend P. Babcock Chase]

Howdy Uriah and experimentalists,

 

I think the idea has some merit although I think most of us have a guess which gun would win. Certainly having an experienced 66 or 73 shooter pick up and shoot a marlin, a 92 or a Lightening for the first time might prove problematic. Having the same mid-pack shooter (no offense Uriah) shoot all of the rifles might provide some interesting results, especially given the array of different action mechanisms involved. Having said all that, experience has shown that any of the guns mentioned, properly prepared and in the hands of a talented and experienced shooter can be competitive.

 

The only thing that I see standing in the way of this experiment is the impending winter weather and temps in New England. 

 

Rev. Chase

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

No.  Not really objective.  There are variables.  Once the experiment is finished, what has been proved??  The differences are actually academic.  The real world difference in "speed" of the various selections is moot.  Unmodified rifles for CAS??  Your kidding??

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

I have 

1 - 1860 44-40

1 - 1866 44 special 

3 - 1873's 44 Special 

2 - 92's 44 Mag 

2 - Marlin 44 Mag 

1 - 94 44 Mag

1 - Henry BB 44 Mag

And I'm still on the bottom of the list and shoot them all about the same speed .

I have to say .

I prefer  the 92 44mag shooting loaded long 44 special's .

 

Edited January 5 by Rooster Ron Wayne

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Howdy HK.

 

Here is my elementary thinking on this.

 

The two folks in SASS known for world record speeds for 10 shots are Deuce and Smokestack.

Deuce uses a 'Carty' short stroke Marlin and Smokestack uses a short stroked 73.  

 

I think BOTH of them have a video of running 10 shots in 1.57 seconds.

 

NOW, considering both rifles have been modified, my guess is that if BOTH rifles were Unmodified, their times

would still be about the same on any given day.   Maybe not 1.57 speed, but still faster than the rest of us.

 

Based on that thinking, my guess is that the Marlin and the 73 model rifles can be functioned and fired at equal speeds.

 

Just my opinion.

 

..........Widder

 

Edited January 6 by Widder, SASS #59054

[River Jordan, SASS 18742]

this is a good thought but there are factors like length of pull  and eye alignment that might a difference

 

For me -- a Marlin fits my body better than a 66 or 73  

 

 

 

 

[Mossy Horn Gent]

Agree with PaleWolf. 

 

Someone who likes shooting a 73 might not be comfortable and/or proficient shooting a 92 or vice versa. 

[Reverend P. Babcock Chase]

Hey Uriah,

 

Disregard the naysayers. If you have the time, the range and the ammo, go for it and let us know what you find. The test will be neither objective or scientific, but it may prove informative or it may not. How will know if you don't try?

 

I'm not a biologist,

Rev. Chase

[watab kid]

should be an interesting review if you apply the appropriate controls and record the single shooter using them all , 

 

i dont care really but it will be interesting read/watch , ill still shoot my 66 , i have all the others , i just prefer my 66 , i might even be faster with something else i have , i just prefer my 66 , 

[doc roy l. pain]

No. 

[Griff]

My rough take on this "experiment" is that the only thing proven is which YOU'RE fastest with on that given day, at that given hour.  On another day or hour, you might be fastest with one of the others.  

[Tom Bullweed]

That would be a good test, with one modification.

The separation between times is likely to be too small with the fastest or slowest shooters.  Those fast shooters are always fast and will likely have times with little differentiation.  A shooter who is relatively slow is not slow because of the rifle model and likely has too many other factors to produce times that vary mostly because of rifle design.

Getting a true middle shooter would minimize that factors that make a faster or slower shooter.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Sometimes there are post that are so embarrassing...

 

Phantom

[Kid Rich]

Then don't do it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

kR

[Captain Bill Burt]

On 1/5/2024 at 6:05 PM, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Howdy HK.

 

Here is my elementary thinking on this.

 

The two folks in SASS known for world record speeds for 10 shots are Deuce and Smokestack.

Deuce uses a 'Carty' short stroke Marlin and Smokestack uses a short stroked 73.  

 

I think BOTH of them have a video of running 10 shots in 1.57 seconds.

 

NOW, considering both rifles have been modified, my guess is that if BOTH rifles were Unmodified, their times

would still be about the same on any given day.   Maybe not 1.57 speed, but still faster than the rest of us.

 

Based on that thinking, my guess is that the Marlin and the 73 model rifles can be functioned and fired at equal speeds.

 

Just my opinion.

 

..........Widder

 

There’s no need for experiments. Widder has provided the answer. Go back and look at the top ten finishers at EOT for the last ten years or so and count how many of them were shooting a 92 or a Lightning. I’m pretty sure the number you will come up with is zero.

Edited January 7 by Captain Bill Burt

[watab kid]

i still want to hear the results and the parameters applied as controls etc , just for the edification value , its always interesting to me when someone needs to go beyond the great education you can get from actual application at a match or the great information provided by the wise here , we are not lacking for the wise info , and anyone that pays attention at any match [save a specialty one] will find the information they need if they want to compete and be successful , 

 

im not a compeitor anymore so i shoot what i like to shoot and i have all the versions so i can shoot them as well of i get the hankerin , sometimes i do other times i dont , om not going to win the match , its fine with me , i am going to enjoy shooting it or suffer my own choices in the process , i always have a great time , 

[The Surgeon]

The only way to tell witch rifle is the fastest is to have a robot shoot them. In leu of a robot you can just look at the fastest shooters in the game. If a gun was faster they would be using it... so id say the 73/66 and m94 are the fastest. I'm never going to discourage anyone from shooting though so if your looking for an excuse do what you want but the way you have it set up the only thing its going to tell you is which one you shot the fastest.