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What’s the call?


Keelhaul
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I shoot duelist. The stage was written SG then rifle, and pistols last. I got a P on my rifle for shooting the targets in the wrong order. I then moved to pistols, while shooting them I pulled the 2nd pistol before I was done shooting the first….. I know I could have re holstered the second one before I cocked the 1st and avoided the penalty but I didn’t so two loaded pistols out at once would be shooting out of category which would give me a progressive P. Would I get the progressive over the regular P or the opposite? Thanks. 

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23 minutes ago, Three Gun Cole said:

Only one P per stage 

Yep, I understand that, but would the P be the progressive one or the one on my rifle for shooting the sequence wrong?

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That’s a good question.

 

It may be that you earned a penalty for failing to adhere to the requirements of your category but it was not assessed because of the prior procedural penalty on the same stage.

 

If that is the correct analysis the shooter would get a SDQ for an “out of category” action on a later stage.

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1 hour ago, Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 said:

That’s a good question.

 

It may be that you earned a penalty for failing to adhere to the requirements of your category but it was not assessed because of the prior procedural penalty on the same stage.

 

If that is the correct analysis the shooter would get a SDQ for an “out of category” action on a later stage.

What section of the rules shows this?

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Posted (edited)

If you ONLY had the P for shooting out of category then yes it would carry over but you got the P with the rifle first so.......hmmmm....good question! I can't seem to find it in the rulebook!

 

Edited by Rye Miles #13621
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1 hour ago, Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 said:

That’s a good question.

 

It may be that you earned a penalty for failing to adhere to the requirements of your category but it was not assessed because of the prior procedural penalty on the same stage.

 

If that is the correct analysis the shooter would get a SDQ for an “out of category” action on a later stage.

I don't know what rule book you have been reading? but it was not written by SASS

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59 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

What section of the rules shows this?

 

16 minutes ago, Von Dutch, SASS # 7995 said:

I don't know what rule book you have been reading? but it was not written by SASS

I think he's talking about this.

Screenshot_20220508-105627_Drive.thumb.jpg.57e56bcb9f98591a03343a3ece0b6c16.jpg

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2 hours ago, john brown said:

  Depends on motive as to why you chose  not to holster. Did you know you could only get the one P and on and on.

.

To clarify, I called the progressive P on myself cause I lost count and knew I pulled the second pistol early. After I told the TO that should be a progressive P I was told I already had a P for the rifle run and you could only get 1 P on a stage. 

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If you can get only one P per stage, than the first P would be the only P that counts, so the P-rogressive P would not be in play, since it would in essence be a no call P.   Excuse me, now I have to P...........:o

 

Kid Drover

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1 hour ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

What section of the rules shows this?

 

1 hour ago, Von Dutch, SASS # 7995 said:

I don't know what rule book you have been reading? but it was not written by SASS

 

Quote

Second offense, in the same match, for “shooting out of category.”

SHB p.22 - STAGE DISQUALIFICATION PENALTY (SDQ)

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I’m confused on this. I understand that shooting out of category was the second possible P in this stage, but I thought the “progressive” penalty was pertaining to repeatedly shooting “without having all the correct item for the category”.   I was under the impression that one could not receive more than one “P” per stage. 
 

please explain further. 
 

Sam Sackett 

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

OK, I'm dense this a.m.

 

So, he got 1 P on stage in question

 

if he would have two loaded guns out in a subsequent stage then SDQ?

 

39 minutes ago, Sam Sackett said:

I’m confused on this. I understand that shooting out of category was the second possible P in this stage, but I thought the “progressive” penalty was pertaining to repeatedly shooting “without having all the correct item for the category”.   I was under the impression that one could not receive more than one “P” per stage. 
 

please explain further. 
 

Sam Sackett 

The progressive P is for shooting out of category. Not for without having all the correct items for the category. I.e. a Duelist having two loaded revolvers out at one time is a P for shooting out of category, which is always progressive.

 

The OP is trying to figure out if since you can only get one P per stage, and he had two seperate Ps, does he get the one that's progressive or does he get the one that is not progressive.

Edited by Tennessee williams
Tried for clarity, probably failed miserably.
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got it..  Thanks

 

Sam Sackett

 

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First PROCEDURAL was earned and assessed for Shooting targets in the wrong order. (SHB p.21)

Second PROCEDURAL violation was for First offense in the same match for “shooting out of category.” (SHB p.21)

Procedural penalties cannot exceed one per stage. (SHB p.21).

The first "P" committed on that stage is the one scored against the shooter.

 

Second offense, in the same match, for “shooting out of category.” (i.e., on a subsequent stage) would be a SDQ even though the PROCEDURAL for the FIRST offense was not assessed due to the "one per stage" rule.

 

The correct call was made by the TO.

 

 

 

 

 

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Sounds like a good practice on the penalty situation we are talking about would be :

 

1 - inform the shooter that he was "out of category" when he had two loaded revolvers out at same time, but that P penalty is not being scored because of a target order Procedural.   BUT, if-and-when an  "out of duelist" category error happens again, he will be earning a SDQ for a second infraction.

 

2 - inform the scorer to make note on scoresheet of "Shooter has shot out of duelist category for the first time on stage # <current stage>"

 

This provides sufficient information so that on following stages, the scorer and the TO (even if they are other people) will understand the shooter is aware of a SDQ if they repeat the error.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

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3 hours ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

OK, I'm dense this a.m.

 

So, he got 1 P on stage in question

 

if he would have two loaded guns out in a subsequent stage then SDQ?

Even if he wasn't scored with the "out of category" procedural due to the prior rifle procedural... he still earned it.  A second infraction of the "out-of-category" rule in the same match would result in a SDQ for that 2nd occurrence.

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11 hours ago, Keelhaul said:

I shoot duelist. The stage was written SG then rifle, and pistols last. I got a P on my rifle for shooting the targets in the wrong order. I then moved to pistols, while shooting them I pulled the 2nd pistol before I was done shooting the first….. I know I could have re holstered the second one before I cocked the 1st and avoided the penalty but I didn’t so two loaded pistols out at once would be shooting out of category which would give me a progressive P. Would I get the progressive over the regular P or the opposite? Thanks. 

You get the first P earned, which would be the Rifle P.

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