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For those who live in a dense urban area and never go far like S J I think they might be OK. For those of us in the Wilderness not useful at all.  Went to closest grocery store Friday. 126 miles round trip. Taking my Kawasaki bike to the closest dealer for service tomorrow. 176 miles ONE WAY. There is a Tesla only charger station 69 miles away. Closest for other electric vehicles is 148 niles away.  

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I didn’t get my EV to save the world or to feel good about my choice in a vehicle.   I got it because it was fun to drive.  It’s fast, 6 sec 0-60, 14 sec quarter.  Torque right now.   It didn’t hurt that I could drive for $.02 to $.04per mile.   I would charge at night when electricity was $.06/kwh  The closest car to it were my old TDI’s, but those are now neutered and not like the old days.   I like driving it and use it when possible because it’s nicer to drive.   My brother got one as well and he found the same thing.   His gas crv sat and they used the EV except for long trips.   
 

the down side is long distance travel.  EV’s can add hours or days to long trips.  Battery and charging tech is not even close to allowing  a large suv sized vehicle to travel at highway speeds in cold weather.  The math is pretty simple.  Take a suburban sized vehicle, let’s say it get 20 mpg.  That would be 60 mpg for an ev as they are about 3x as efficient as gas.  A gallon of gas is about 36 kwh.   So we take 60/36 to get miles per kWh ie 3m/kwh.  In cold, we cut that by at least 30%, possibly closer to 50%.  So let’s say its 2m/kwh.  That means to go 240 miles or 4 hrs  you need a 120kwh pack.   No EV has a pack that big right now.  The tesla X is close, but they cost $125k.    Now to charge that in 10 min, you would need a charger that puts out about 720 kw.   At 480v, that’s a 1500 amp, since electric is rated at 80%, you would need almost a 2000 amp service per car to do that sort of charging.    Can’t imagine how big those cables have to be.   Right now we have 50-60kw fast chargers.  At that rate it would take 2+ hrs to charge, every 4 hours.  Then you look at the fact that the current lithium batteries really like a cycle from 15% to 85%, not 0-100.  That means to have 120kwh truly usable, you need about a 150kwh pack.   

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For us it was affordability.   Do we put $5000 or more into repairs on a 20 year old pickup that costs about $40 to $50 per week to run,  or do we put a few grand down on something new, with $200 per month payments that costs maybe $12 per week to run and that is more comfortable for my wife?

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1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

For us it was affordability.   Do we put $5000 or more into repairs on a 20 year old pickup that costs about $40 to $50 per week to run,  or do we put a few grand down on something new, with $200 per month payments that costs maybe $12 per week to run and that is more comfortable for my wife?

I don't have a problem with EVs in general. If it serves your purpose, then that's great. The problem I have is with the environmentalist  wackos that think that if we all drive EVs, the skies will clear, the oceans will be pure, landfills will no longer be needed, people will stop warring over every little thing, and All Will be Right With the World.

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27 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

I don't have a problem with EVs in general. If it serves your purpose, then that's great. The problem I have is with the environmentalist  wackos that think that if we all drive EVs, the skies will clear, the oceans will be pure, landfills will no longer be needed, people will stop warring over every little thing, and All Will be Right With the World.

 

On the test drive the salesman asked me if I  was thinking about going electric for economic or "moral" reasons.   I managed not to laugh as I  said, "Purely money. "

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Been reading about Thomas Edison. The number of things besides the incandescent light bulb that he invented is astounding!  One thing he was working on in the 1910-1912 period was rechargable batteries that were better than lead-acid, for cars, submarines, etc.  Not sure what we have today that is based on some of his designs. His portland cement process is apparently still considered the best.  Wonder how today's car batteries relate to his designs???

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2 hours ago, Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 said:

Edison is known for having his name on a lot of patents taken out for things his employees invented.

 

That's kind of how it works.  You work for a person or company who pays you to come up with ideas.  The person or company takes out the patent and gets the credit.

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7 hours ago, Alpo said:

I don't think of it as going green, or saving the planet, or any of that kind of nonsense. It's just easier for me.

 

I don't have an electric car. But after fighting with them for more than 50 years, with the "gas went bad over the winter", and the "have to remember to prime the carburetor", and the "pull the rope until your damn arm feels like it's going to fall off", I broke down and got an electric lawn mower. When I'm through with it in the winter time, I go push it in the corner and forget about it. When I want to use it next spring, I pull it out, plug it in, push the button and I'm going. It's lighter than a gas mower. It's quieter than a gas mower.

 

I also have an electric chainsaw. I don't go out in the woods and play lumberjack. I do occasionally have to prune a tree. And when that chainsaw has not been used for a year or two, it still starts as soon as I pull the trigger.

 

I get the electric mower and chainsaw.

 

My dad had an electric chainsaw for trimming trees. Always started when up in a tree and if you dropped it cost a lot less than his gasoline saws.

 

However if you would have bought a battery powered mower and saw you would have issues with the battery life span due to them being inactive for long periods of time.

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20 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

I get the electric mower and chainsaw.

 

My dad had an electric chainsaw for trimming trees. Always started when up in a tree and if you dropped it cost a lot less than his gasoline saws.

 

However if you would have bought a battery powered mower and saw you would have issues with the battery life span due to them being inactive for long periods of time.


unfortunately lithium batteries lose capacity and increase IR with both age and use.  So even if they are not used much the batteries still age and will fail at some time.  With mowers and chainsaws they work fine for small amounts of use.  If you have a big yard or need to cut big trees, they won’t do the job.  Simply not enough capacity in the batteries.   It’s really hard to meet the energy density of liquid fuels.   At 36kwh per gallon, even when you adjust for the increased efficiency, it’s still about 12kwh/gallon.   Look at any battery powered yard tool and see what it’s equivalent is in gallons of gas.  I guarantee it’s small fractions of a gallon. 

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4 minutes ago, Still hand Bill said:


unfortunately lithium batteries lose capacity and increase IR with both age and use.  So even if they are not used much the batteries still age and will fail at some time.  With mowers and chainsaws they work fine for small amounts of use.  If you have a big yard or need to cut big trees, they won’t do the job.  Simply not enough capacity in the batteries.   It’s really hard to meet the energy density of liquid fuels.   At 36kwh per gallon, even when you adjust for the increased efficiency, it’s still about 12kwh/gallon.   Look at any battery powered yard tool and see what it’s equivalent is in gallons of gas.  I guarantee it’s small fractions of a gallon. 

 

That's why our lawn mower is just like Alpo's and needs a really long extension cord.

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1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

However if you would have bought a battery powered mower and saw you would have issues with the battery life span due to them being inactive for long periods of time.

Which is why I went corded.

 

My truck has been on the battery charger today. I checked my record book and I charged it last Groundhog Day. And in the two months and 10 days since I recharged it last I have driven it 25 miles. The furthest I have driven at one time was 4.8 miles, round trip. I don't drive it far enough to put back the juice it took to start it.

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2 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

That's kind of how it works.  You work for a person or company who pays you to come up with ideas.  The person or company takes out the patent and gets the credit.

I’m on a couple of patents from work. I have a couple fancy coins that say I’m an inventor . When you hire into just about any large company you sign away your rights to just about everything except your first born . Just the way the system works 

Edited by Buckshot Bob
I can’t spell
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Where I work you don't own the patent or get any long term financial benefits from the it but your name is on it. Was the same for one other company I worked for. There was a whole wall of plaques that had the patent number and the actual inventors name on them. 

 

Edison always made it look like he was the genius that did the actual work. 

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4 hours ago, Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 said:

Edison is known for having his name on a lot of patents taken out for things his employees invented.

 

One of the reasons Tesla left him and went to work for Mr. Westinghouse.

If what I read was true he died penniless. So apparently Westinghouse didn’t do much better for him . He’s one of those guys I find interesting but have not taken the time to read about. 

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1 hour ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

And replacement for your EV is on the order of several THOUSAND dollars. I believe after 5 or 6 years.  

Actually about $12,000 for my car.  It’s 4 years in and capacity is down maybe 10%.  I expect it will go 8-10 years before it’s  capacity is too low for anything more than simple city trips. Even then it would still have more capacity than some of the first generation cars had when new.  

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7 hours ago, Buckshot Bob said:

If what I read was true he died penniless. So apparently Westinghouse didn’t do much better for him . He’s one of those guys I find interesting but have not taken the time to read about. 

 

Tesla died broke for a couple of reasons.

 

1. He was not the best business man.

 

2. Others with the financial resources to do so, took advantage of #1 and made it a point to ruin him.

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This is an interesting thread but so far nothing said has me even remotely thinking about going electric.  I'll stick with the good old combustible engine!;)

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20 hours ago, Tequila Shooter said:

I’m waiting for hydrogen power to be perfected. 

Hydrogen has perfect power, it also has perfected corrosion to common materials and is the smallest and very reactive atom so it's perfected being darned cantankerous to store... bypassing the storage requirements by creating it from water reduces the power gains attainable... at least that's how I understand it.

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I wasn't trying to convert anyone,  or sing praises to electric cars, nor denigrate internal combustion engines.  Just pointing out an oddity I noticed on one drive.   

 

Yesterday I started with 100% charge and an estimated 177 mile range.  When I got home from work,  with a 26 mile round trip,  I  was down to 80% and an estimated remaining range of 139 miles.  

 

I agree that they aren't for everyone,  especially the shorter range ones like this.

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