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I have a .44 cal 200 grain full wadcutter, and a 155 grain full wadcutter mold. Loaded in .44 Russian cases with a full charge of black powder, which is going to recoil less? More lead, less powder, or less lead, more powder? I'm inclined to believe the 155 with more powder will produce less felt recoil. If'n 'twern't cold & snowing, I could step outside & try it. B)

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in a pistol, I'd put my money on the heavier bullet recoiling more, higher pressure, more powder burn, greater projectiles density (lead and unburnt powder), but I'm still not sure what affect the larger quantity of unburnt powder might have behind the lighter bullet,

 

Here's some BP data that might help you.

 

image.png.563a06d5286ed43591a7d3a2a9148cc4.png

image.png.f91745c3fccc79bc1c8cfa1a5065df5f.png

Table Credit PoconoShooting

Black Powder Ballistics (poconoshooting.com)

 

Edited by El CupAJoe
grabbed wrong table
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Without knowing anything about the weight of the powder charge I am going to guess the lighter bullet will produce less felt recoil.  Either way, if these are full WC designs loaded flush with the case mouth the little 44 russian is not going to have much room for powder, so felt recoil will be pretty mild.

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Recoil and "Felt Recoil" are the product of Physics.  The "Action - Re-Action" part.  The recoil is primarily the result of the Pay Load.  Heavier Bullet . . . more Recoil.

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Hey my brother...

 

Are you getting old and concerned about recoil, or are you becoming a gamer??!!

 

I suspect you will sense about the same reduction in recoil with your 155 grain .44 pellet as you would going from a 200 grain bullet to a 160 grain “flying ashtray” in a .45 Colt.  A bit, but not night vs. day difference.

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:D  Hey J-BAR  :D

 

I'm only a "Gamer" when It's MY turn to shoot.  I have always been a "Recoil Wimp."  Have always gone for the lightest bullet I could find (With an exception).  I like 160Gr pills in 44 Russian.  I like 180Gr for 45 rifle.  In my .45 Handguns (Suppository Shooters) I load big massive 130Gr BARNSTORMERS.  180Gr inna rifle.  44 Cap Guns 148Gr Round Ball.

 

The Exception:  For my .36 Cal. Cap Guns, I went UP in bullet weight.  Went from 80Gr Round Ball to 90Gr cast EPP UG-36.  The EPP gives a nice KLANG on steel targets.  Better-n the dull thump from 80Gr round ball.

 

Stay Safe Out There Pardner :) B)   

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Pistol... Good flame at night, step outside and try it.

 

The flame would indicate the powder did not fully burn in the barrel.

 

I'll go with heavier bullet produces more recoil.

 

Would be interesting to compare the energy of each combination with a chronometer (I just bought one because I'm a geek). Momentum is the same as power factor (mass X velocity). Felt recoil is due to momentum.

 

Energy is mass X velocity X velocity. I would not be surprised if the lighter bullet has more energy compared to the heavier slug even though it has less momentum.

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7 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Recoil and "Felt Recoil" are the product of Physics.  The "Action - Re-Action" part.  The recoil is primarily the result of the Pay Load.  Heavier Bullet . . . more Recoil.

 

Agree.

Do some math.   I could be wrong, but I think energy produced by your loads

also equates to recoil stuff.

 

..........Widder

 

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15 hours ago, July Smith said:

Without knowing anything about the weight of the powder charge I am going to guess the lighter bullet will produce less felt recoil.  Either way, if these are full WC designs loaded flush with the case mouth the little 44 russian is not going to have much room for powder, so felt recoil will be pretty mild.

 

FYI - "Ammunition with bullets recessed below the case mouth is not allowed"
pg.26 of the Shooters Handbook

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3 hours ago, Ya Big Tree said:

 

FYI - "Ammunition with bullets recessed below the case mouth is not allowed"
pg.26 of the Shooters Handbook

"Flush" is not recessed. I've had people tell me these round ball loads are illegal, but they very obviously have lead showing above the case mouth - 

RoundBall.jpg

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If one looks at the recoil calculation formulas, they will see Velocity squared is part of the calculation.
A small change in Velocity has more effect than a small change in Mass.

 

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10 minutes ago, bgavin said:

If one looks at the recoil calculation formulas, they will see Velocity squared is part of the calculation.
A small change in Velocity has more effect than a small change in Mass.

 

Energy is mass times velocity squared, momentum is just mass times velocity.  Momentum is conserved and is what creates the rearward motion of the gun we feel as recoil.  

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I used the calculation in the SAAMI "gun recoil - technical" PDF dated 2018.07.09 (my Dad's birthday.. )

They have a worked example for free recoil in a shotgun.
This translates well into an Excel formula that verifies their worked example matches the Excel results.

Following their worked example, they round to three significant digits, where Excel is precise.
The SAAMI worked example is 30.22 ft-lb
The Excel calculation is 30.17 ft-lb

A 5% reduction in Velocity, (1275 down to 1121) yields 23.33 ft-lb
A 5% reduction in shot weight yields 27.65 ft-lb


This tells me a 5% reduction in velocity yields a larger reduction in recoil, than a 5% reduction in shot weight.

 

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My understanding is recoil is momentum, mass x velocity.  So they both have equal effect, although I don’t know how many fps = 1g.  Should be easy to figure out in a calculator.    Energy is what does damage to the target and is 1/2mv^2.  In that case velocity is squared, so it’s effect is much higher.  This is why rifles tend to be small fast bullets.  Less recoil for the same energy. 
 

if you use a filler, the 150g can be launched at the same speed or slower which is a lot less recoil.  For my fc loads in 44 spl, I used a 180g and a 1/4” felt 410 shotgun wad.  That allowed less powder due to the short bullet vs a 240g.   The wad + bullet were about the same length as a larger bullet.  So that way the powder was close to the same. 

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On 3/31/2021 at 1:40 PM, Three Foot Johnson said:

"Flush" is not recessed. I've had people tell me these round ball loads are illegal, but they very obviously have lead showing above the case mouth - 

RoundBall.jpg

 

It was just a FYI cautionary post.

 

 

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Factory Winchester loads in .22 Hornet 40 gr. and .45-70 300 gr R.P. have about the same energy ,,,, Which recoils more???

 

Jabez Cowboy 

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Montana - if you don't like the weather, wait an hour. :D

It's supposed to be 70 today, 71 tomorrow, and 68 Sunday.

I might have to see if I can round up a Cowboy shoot somewhere tomorrow.

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Posted (edited)

Beautiful weekend to shoot, in the  70's both days, albeit a bit breezy. Today... in the 30's, and started snowing like all hell again this morning. :(

Snow.jpg

Edited by Three Foot Johnson
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