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Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967

Non-Lead Options?

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I hate to ask, but what are the current thoughts on CAS if the proposed ban on lead ammo for "sport shooting" becomes reality...?  Legislation looming in California, but unfortunately could spread.  :(

 

 A quick glance at the Interweb shows .38 copper bullets at 50¢ to 72¢ apiece.  Primer shortage aside, $10 - $15 a stage can get kinda priceyAnd then comes lead-free shotshells,  assuming we can adapt to targets that can be safely used with steel shot...  :huh:

 

Pending legislation in California, but certainly could spread.  

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Bismuth Shot

 

All target sports will drive the development of cheap target ammo.

 

Copper bullets and steel targets are not a good combination. The copper will crater even AR500 steel.

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2 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Bismuth Shot

 

All target sports will drive the development of cheap target ammo.

 

Copper bullets and steel targets are not a good combination. The copper will crater even AR500 steel.

Crooked River Pete has it right.  powdered metal polymer "frangible" bullets  & bismuth shot will be the rule of the day.  Another way for the hoplophob's in CA to make it hard for CA residents to exercise their 2A rights.   Composite bullets will never be as cheap as lead or copper jacketed bullets.  high density metals like tungsten & depleted uranium are way more expensive than lead.

P.S. the percent price premium for non steel nontoxic shot shells is greater than that for frangible metallic pistol caliber cartridges.

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18 minutes ago, Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L said:

Depleted Uranium?:rolleyes:

A little goes a long way.

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3 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

I hate to ask, but what are the current thoughts on CAS if the proposed ban on lead ammo for "sport shooting" becomes reality...?  Legislation looming in California, but unfortunately could spread.  :(

 

 A quick glance at the Interweb shows .38 copper bullets at 50¢ to 72¢ apiece.  Primer shortage aside, $10 - $15 a stage can get kinda priceyAnd then comes lead-free shotshells,  assuming we can adapt to targets that can be safely used with steel shot...  :huh:

 

Pending legislation in California, but certainly could spread.  

I worry about CA on some of these things.

 

Elemental lead in a bullet is not dangerous or harmful. Smoking in a lead-dust environment is harmful. The dustiness of lead deteriorating paint is harmful.

 

At this time in CA, San Francisco fans the RIP round because it is too deadly; as a contrast, I would not want to be on the receiving end of any of this sport's minimum power factor cartridges. Dead is dead. I do not acknowledge a concept of being more dead.

 

But the RIP round, being 100% copper, is legal at outdoor ranges in southern CA.

 

I worry about CA and unintended consequences. MTBE in fuel was worse than the formulation it replaced.

 

Back to ammo...Bismuth? Might have unintended consequences:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6281375/

 

"A 77-year old woman presented with a history of falls. Known health problems included biopsy-proven collagenous colitis treated with bismuth subsalicylate. On examination, in addition to impaired balance and gait, she was found to have tremors and cognitive deficits. Investigations revealed a markedly elevated urinary bismuth level. Withdrawal of bismuth subsalicylate led to marked cognitive and physical improvement."

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4 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

I hate to ask, but what are the current thoughts on CAS if the proposed ban on lead ammo for "sport shooting" becomes reality...?  Legislation looming in California, but unfortunately could spread.  :(

 

 A quick glance at the Interweb shows .38 copper bullets at 50¢ to 72¢ apiece.  Primer shortage aside, $10 - $15 a stage can get kinda priceyAnd then comes lead-free shotshells,  assuming we can adapt to targets that can be safely used with steel shot...  :huh:

 

Pending legislation in California, but certainly could spread.  

 

It will depend on how the law is written.  If they write the law in such a manner that no lead bullet or any other bullet exposed lead is banned, there may still be the option of polymer coated bullets.  Otherwise hope it can be overturned in a court case.

 

On edit:  I have already started to transition to polymer coated bullets for cowboy shooting and will switch over to polymer coated bullets as I run out of the lead bullets I currently have for handguns.  The only center fire rifle caliber I have that used lead bullets is the 45-70 and I have not explored what option, if any, there are for polymer coated 45-70 bullets

 

 

 

Edited by Chantry

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The bill - California AB3071 - Is pretty clear in its intent ~ and typically, quite self-justifying.  It also specifically refers to both "sport shooting ranges or indoor shooting ranges:"

 

Quote

 

This bill would prohibit a sport shooting range or an indoor shooting range, as defined, from selling or giving away ammunition unless that ammunition is certified as nonlead ammunition by the commission. The bill would also prohibit patrons or employees of a sport shooting range or an indoor shooting range from firing ammunition unless it is nonlead certified and would require a sport shooting range and an indoor shooting range to post a specified sign to that effect...
 
The United States Environmental Protection Agency defines lead as toxic to both humans and animals. Lead can affect almost every organ and system in the human body, including the heart, bones, intestines, kidneys, and reproductive and nervous systems. It interferes with the development of the nervous system and is therefore particularly toxic to children, causing potentially permanent learning and behavior disorders...
 
Lead is spread through the vapor when a gun is fired and by the dust that comes off the bullet when it is fired. While some ranges have filters and other devices to remediate the lead dust, containment of lead dust in shooting ranges varies considerably between facilities. The only means to ensure that there will not be exposure to those inside and outside of the range is to stop using lead ammunition.

 

 

:(

 

 
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10 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

The bill - California AB3071 - Is pretty clear in its intent ~ and typically, quite self-justifying.  It also specifically refers to both "sport shooting ranges or indoor shooting ranges:"

 

 

:(

 

 

 

Hopefully it will be overturned in a court case because I have little doubt that it will pass in the CA Legislature

Edited by Chantry

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squirt guns

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im not ever moving or visiting CA , nothin there , i got everything i need and nothin that i dont 

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3/8" dowel sliced into 1/2" lengths.

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There are a number of companies making lead free frangible ammunition .   The big question is how many are making ammo in cowboy calibers (probably only 38 Special) and how much does it cost.  From what little I have read, frangible bullets are not sold to the public for reloading purposes,

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3 hours ago, Chantry said:

From what little I have read, frangible bullets are not sold to the public for reloading purposes,

 

They are available.

 

Welcome to Frangible Bullets

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

If you're wondering what ammo will still be CA-approved by next year, here's a start:

 

biodegradable-BB.jpeg

 

SS, won't open.  :(

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You must be having computer issues. I was referring to biodegradable Airsoft pellets. Of course knowing CA they'll probably even find an issue with them as well, like some rare breed of squirrels are choking on them so they must be outlawed too.

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If only Superman hadn't stopped Lex Luther from pushing California into the ocean...

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Here in Sacramento County, it is illegal to shoot BB guns.
Kinda silly taking one to a gun range...

We have two nice German .177 pellet rifles and one pistol that we can no longer shoot.

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2 hours ago, bgavin said:

Here in Sacramento County, it is illegal to shoot BB guns.
Kinda silly taking one to a gun range...

We have two nice German .177 pellet rifles and one pistol that we can no longer shoot.

 

That just bites.  It's like making bowling alleys illegal just 'cuz some legislator and his buddies don't like bowling.  :angry:

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18 minutes ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

 

That just bites.  It's like making bowling alleys illegal just 'cuz some legislator and his buddies don't like bowling.  :angry:

Must not own stock in any beer companies.

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And you wonder why there is a mass exodus from California these days?

 

If it were me I'd just shoot those airguns indoors and not worry about it. There is absolutely no reason to restrict BB, pellet or Airsoft guns unless you simply hate guns so much you're trying to remove all traces of them from society.

 

Unfortunately I think the day will soon come when some progressive governor in CA will announce that he/she/it is going to push for California to become the nation's first completely "gun free" state.

.

Edited by Sixgun Sheridan
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Apparently, the mass exodus from CA also contains herds of Democrats.
If only Conservatives moved from CA to Phoenix, then AZ would remain Red.
This is not the case.

As a native son, I looked at Idaho counties for vote counts.
There is a steady 30% of Blue votes in nearly ever county... including those in the far north panhandle.
I was shocked to see this.

CA appears to be taking a different tact...
You can own your gun, but it will be damn difficult to buy a new one, or find ammo that is legal to shoot.

 

Edited by bgavin

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The only reason why California hasn't just flat out banned all guns and ammo yet is because their politicians need a boogeyman to keep getting re-elected. Pretty hard to say you're going to do something about gun violence when you've already banned them all.

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