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Utah Bob #35998

Politically Correct history

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Local news anchor almost screwed up when she was saying there were 2000 service members killed at Pearl Harbor. She said Servicemen! Heaven forbid! Then corrected herself. Obviously the teleprompter said Service Members.

There were 82 Army nurses at Pearl Harbor. None were killed. No women were stationed on war ships in WWll. No women flew combat planes. Things have changed.

But youngsters who write the new scripts don’t know much about history do they? 
And then there was a story about the two sailors who were recently identified through DNA. They interviewed a young woman who found out one of them was her great uncle who she had never heard about. She thought it was “cool”. Yeah. Cool. :(

And I assumed that one of the networks would be showing In Harms Way, Air Force, Back to Bataan or some such classic (but hopefully not the ridiculous Pearl Harbor). But I was wrong.

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Time for that drink, Bob!B)

Not in a good enough mood yet.

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In harms way would have been great but alas it is getting hard to find good war movies even on important dates like today.  

 

 

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Actually, I think it is ignorance and indifference.  And it Sux!

 

LL

I agree to that as well. 
 

It’s Politically Correct, Revisionist, Ignorant and Indifferent and it SUCKS! 

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Bob

You're way more of an expert on military history than most on the wire but...

Women flew combat planes, but they didn't fly them in combat!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_Airforce_Service_Pilots

Ike

 

Kind of difficult to tell if they were organized prior to Pearl Harbor. I think this is the time period Utah is in reference too. We all agree after the start of WW II many women were flying, but were they flying combat planes in Pearl at the time of the bombing?

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Bob

You're way more of an expert on military history than most on the wire but...

Women flew combat planes, but they didn't fly them in combat!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_Airforce_Service_Pilots

Ike

I’m aware of the WASPs and their valuable contribution. My point was the comment of the anchor (or news writer) in substituting “servicepersons“ for servicemen as KIAs in speaking of the Pearl Harbor attack, which was in my opinion just ignorant, substituting today’s verbiage to an incident that occurred in another era.

And I’m far from an expert. Just a student of history.

 

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Kind of difficult to tell if they were organized prior to Pearl Harbor. I think this is the time period Utah is in reference too. We all agree after the start of WW II many women were flying, but were they flying combat planes in Pearl at the time of the bombing?

No. They were formed in 43. The precursor to the WASPs was the Women’s Flying Training Detachment which was formed in Nov of 42.

 

 

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While Bob DID say, "No woman flew combat planes", I took that to mean NO WOMAN FLEW A PLANE IN COMBAT.

 

A woman might ferry an F4F from the Grumon factory to the ship that is going to take it to the Solomons, but that does not make her a fighter pilot.

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While Bob DID say, "No woman flew combat planes", I took that to mean NO WOMAN FLEW A PLANE IN COMBAT.

 

A woman might ferry an F4F from the Grumon factory to the ship that is going to take it to the Solomons, but that does not make her a fighter pilot.

Yeah, that’s how I should have worded it.

 

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I don't have the numbers, but there were WASP's who were killed in flying accidents involving combat aircraft.  Like the LTC and his 2LT student who were killed in a crash at Vance AFB recently, they were still in the service to our country!  May they all RIP, along with the troops KIA by the terrorist attack at P'Cola!

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|:FlagAm:

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I don't have the numbers, but there were WASP's who were killed in flying accidents involving combat aircraft.  Like the LTC and his 2LT student who were killed in a crash at Vance AFB recently, they were still in the service to our country!  May they all RIP, along with the troops KIA by the terrorist attack at P'Cola!

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|:FlagAm:

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No argument there.

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They might have thought the movie pearl harbor was accurate and it shows nurses getting killed.  They might actually think fighter pilots flew bombers for Gen Doolittle.   

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World War II ended over 74 years ago. I was born in 1948, so the war was of my father's generation.

 

When I started college, at age 18 in 1966, seventy-five years "before" was 1891. What did I know of 1891? Maybe a little bit. Maybe I also had learned something of the Spanish-American War, and something more of WWI (my grandad was an RAF pilot in the First World War). But there was much of those times that I was ignorant about, and most of my learning  about them (and, indeed, about WWII itself), came from my mature reading, not from school.

 

I wonder if old men back then sat around lamenting about how the young were so ignorant of the history of 74+ years before?

 

No doubt. That's what old men do, it seems. And, after all, I'm an old man now, too.

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My granddaughter gave me a history test. Apparently they were supposed to find someone that lived through that period in time to answer these questions. It covered the last 50 years.

 

First question was did you watch the moon landing (probably not - it was free THREE O'CLOCK on a Saturday afternoon in July when I was 13. I was probably outside playing) and the 40th question was what do you think of Donald Trump as president.

 

And I discovered that while I had opinions NOW about things that happened back then, I generally had no opinion about it BACK THEN.

 

Like - in 1978 did I think Jimmy Carter was a good president. NOW I don't think Jimmy Carter was a good president, but back then I was in my early twenties and I didn't give a damn about politics.

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Moon landing was at 3:18pm CDT and the first step on the moon 9:56pm. I was 9 years old and watched the first step on the moon it was in a crowded room with lots of family at an aunt's and uncle's house. I remember it was dark out, hot no air conditioning, I was sweating, and it seemed like we could do anything. I liked Carter at the time, didn't like Reagan at the time, that changed after college when I started work full time, got a place, and paid utilities. Then I didn't like Carter and liked Reagan. Somewhere along the line, though I have always opposed racism and sexism and supported equal opportunity for all, I became evil, sexist, racist, deplorable, and hateful - my views haven't changed since then but the world has - and believing in individual rights and individual responsibility and not identity politics and socialism is wrong, or so I am told.

 

I miss a country where people were not ashamed or afraid to be openly proud of America. Where people could go to church and share their faith without being mocked or ridiculed. Where families where valued. Where work and service were honored. Where being a good husband or wife, mother or father was more important than lots of money or fame. Where people took pride in their jobs and accepted that with freedom comes responsibility. Where if as an individual or as a nation we failed at something then we worked harder to do better. Where our heroes were heroes not anti-heroes. Somehow the world seems darker and more pessimistic now. Maybe the enemies were clearer - fascism, communism, racism, sexism, pollution. The world seems upside down. 

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No. They were formed in 43. The precursor to the WASPs was the Women’s Flying Training Detachment which was formed in Nov of 42.

 

 

 

I was going on the idea of Jackie Cochran who had contacted Eleanor Roosevelt in 39 about the idea of women pilots flying non-combat missions. She then flew a bomber to England where she and 25 other women flew the non-combat missions and were the first women to fly military aircraft where the ATA was organized. But, as far as calling servicemen members is a crock. But then again we are dealing with the same crock.

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World War II ended over 74 years ago. I was born in 1948, so the war was of my father's generation.

 

When I started college, at age 18 in 1966, seventy-five years "before" was 1891. What did I know of 1891? Maybe a little bit. Maybe I also had learned something of the Spanish-American War, and something more of WWI (my grandad was an RAF pilot in the First World War). But there was much of those times that I was ignorant about, and most of my learning  about them (and, indeed, about WWII itself), came from my mature reading, not from school.

 

I wonder if old men back then sat around lamenting about how the young were so ignorant of the history of 74+ years before?

 

No doubt. That's what old men do, it seems. And, after all, I'm an old man now, too.

My problem is I was incredibly interested in history since I was about 11 years old. I read volumes about the Revolution, both the first one and the industrial one.  I memorized the battles and commanders of the Civil War. I studied American military campaigns of the 20th  century from the Boxer Rebellion to the Mexican Expedition, Philippine Insurrection, WW1, Nicaragua, the WW1 second act, and Korea. So when I see adults who have no clue about anything that happened before they got their first I Phone, it saddens me.

I should have entered college and gone for a history degree, but life intervened and took me on another course.


I probably would have made a lousy academic anyway. Never liked tweed much. ;)

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Just saw a Denver hews story about the WAVES. It was pretty good for a while. Then a CU Boulder professor whose mother was a WAVE and who made a documentary in 2012 talked about the WAVE flight instructors.

”The men all wanted WAVEs as instructors”, she said. “It turned out that all the best fighter pilots were trained solely by women instructors”. Really?? 
When you tweak history, without any documentation or proof, to fit your own agenda, you destroy it.

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Just saw a Denver hews story about the WAVES. It was pretty good for a while. Then a CU Boulder professor whose mother was a WAVE and who made a documentary in 2012 talked about the WAVE flight instructors.

”The men all wanted WAVEs as instructors”, she said. “It turned out that all the best fighter pilots were trained solely by women instructors”. Really?? 
When you tweak history, without any documentation or proof, to fit your own agenda, you destroy it.

 

That's fascinating, since I had always learned that our many of  "best fighter pilots," aside from those who earned their wings prior to the existence of the WAVES, were trained by fighter pilots who rotated back from combat roles in order to teach others. Many of our "best fighter pilots," like Richard Bong, Thomas McGuire, Joe Foss and Greg Boyington were flying before the group was formed. 

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That's fascinating, since I had always learned that our many of  "best fighter pilots," aside from those who earned their wings prior to the existence of the WAVES, were trained by fighter pilots who rotated back from combat roles in order to teach others. Many of our "best fighter pilots," like Richard Bong, Thomas McGuire, Joe Foss and Greg Boyington were flying before the group was formed. 

The Bouklder professor has perhaps let her zeal for women's equality color her perception. I'm trying to find the documentary she did in 2012 but have been unsuccessful so far. The government did this one during the war.

 

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