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Devil Dan

Trigger guard spur

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Posted (edited)

Was wanting to know if trigger guard spurs or legal on revolvers, such as the ones on Schofields #2 and lemats. Are theses allowed on all revolvers if not, why (low blackhawk hammers where not originals parts, just say'en) Thanks for any help.

 

Edited by Devil Dan

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They would be legal if they came as original equipment on that particular gun. They could not be added to any gun a competitor might chose.

 

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Still curious as to why they couldn't be added to a open competition gun being as those can have blackhawk hammers and adjustable sights plus brass insert front sights, etc?

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18 minutes ago, Devil Dan said:

Still curious as to why they couldn't be added to a open competition gun being as those can have blackhawk hammers and adjustable sights plus brass insert front sights, etc?

Why would you want to, just askin?

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51 minutes ago, Devil Dan said:

Still curious as to why they couldn't be added to a open competition gun being as those can have blackhawk hammers and adjustable sights plus brass insert front sights, etc?

Because they are not listed as an external modification that is allowed. Each of those other things are specifically allowed.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the replies and clearing that up, still wish they would allow some more customization if it's not to extreme and would still be period correct,  ie using civil war parts on other guns. I was wanting to put a lemat trigger guard with spur, no reason just thought it would be interesting, may still do it but just switch it out with a none spur one. I made some "birds head" grips for my vaquero's. I like to tinker.

20180910_125531.jpg

20180910_125603.jpg

Edited by Devil Dan
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You can sumbit your modification to the ROC and see what they say.

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30 minutes ago, Devil Dan said:

Thanks for the replies and clearing that up, still wish they would allow some more customization if it's not to extreme and would still be period correct,  ie using civil war parts on other guns. I was wanting to put a lemat trigger guard with spur, no reason just thought it would be interesting, may still do it but just switch it out with a none spur one. I made some "birds head" grips for my vaquero's. I like to tinker.

20180910_125531.jpg

20180910_125603.jpg

Pretty nice work but I wonder if someone will question the legality of the “pinky finger notch” on the bottom front of the grips. I like those grips a lot, don’t get me wrong. I’d like to see more of your work. I’m wondering if the trigger guard mod that you asked about would be legal in the new Steampunk category.

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There's a Steampunk category?  Please tell me it's unofficial, local level only.

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M Hangtree,

No, there is no official Steampunk "Category."  Steampunk is strictly unofficial at the local level.  Steampunk is a really really FUN manner of costume.

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CALL SASS AND SEE WHAT THEY SAY. I CAN'T SEE ANY WHERE IT WOULD GIVE YOU ANY ADVANTAGE . 

LIKE YOU SAID GOLD SIGHTS ETC ARE BEING ADDED. YOU HAVE A GOOD ARGUMENT .

GOOD LUCK TO YOU.

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1 hour ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

There's a Steampunk category?  Please tell me it's unofficial, local level only.

Yep, some places have a steampunk category.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

Pretty nice work but I wonder if someone will question the legality of the “pinky finger notch” on the bottom front of the grips. I like those grips a lot, don’t get me wrong. I’d like to see more of your work. I’m wondering if the trigger guard mod that you asked about would be legal in the new Steampunk category.

I've used it at 2 different locations and no one has said anything other than how good they look, I'm sure at some point in time I'll run in to that "one guy" who will make a big deal about it but all in all it doesn't give me any real advantage other than comfort. I'm working on a bulldog blackhawk right now, have to get the barrel bobbed as I don't trust myself with something like that, also I'm almost done with an ak with a special stock made to be more lever action like, just got to get the barrel retreaded, again don't trust myself on that. Thank for the kind words, I may open a custom form and we can see what all the "can't leave it alone" nuts got, made start something...

Edited by Devil Dan
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19 hours ago, Devil Dan said:

Was wanting to know if trigger guard spurs or legal on revolvers, such as the ones on Schofields #2 and lemats. Are theses allowed on all revolvers if not, why (low blackhawk hammers where not originals parts, just say'en) Thanks for any help.

 

First off, you should be asking permission to post photos. That is my photo of my 2nd Model Russian, and it is not in public domain.

 

Secondly, the Schofield is a #3, not a #2, and they did not have a trigger guard spur. The New Model Number Three was sometimes equipped with a trigger guard spur, similar to the Russian model, but not the Schofield.

 

Other than the two examples I gave, trigger guard spurs were not commonly seen on 19th Century revolvers. The odd shaped trigger guard on the Le Mat you have pictured is not really a spur, it is just the shape of the trigger guard. Perfectly legal if you want to shoot a Le Mat because it was standard equipment.

 

Modifications not specifically allowed in the Firearms Covenants are prohibited. Period.  The idea is, customization needs to be limited. Regarding triggers and trigger guards, this is what the handbook says about triggers and trigger guards. Anything else is prohibited.

 

Triggers may be profiled

Trigger position may be adjusted.

Trigger stops may be added.-

Shotgun trigger guards may be wrapped with leather or other natural material. Bending the trigger guard on side by sides so triggers are more exposed is not allowed.

Trigger shoes are not allowed

 

Lastly, let me tell you that the trigger guard spur on a S&W Russian revolver does not make the gun any easier to shoot. Hooking a finger on the spur makes it more difficult to shoot, not easier. Trust me on this.

 

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You might consider a thorough study of "SECTION 6 - FIREARM COVENANTS" of the Shooters Handbook (pp. 33-40) if the intention is to use any "over-customized" firearms for SASS competition.

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8 hours ago, Devil Dan said:

I've used it at 2 different locations and no one has said anything other than how good they look, I'm sure at some point in time I'll run in to that "one guy" who will make a big deal about it but all in all it doesn't give me any real advantage other than comfort. I'm working on a bulldog blackhawk right now, have to get the barrel bobbed as I don't trust myself with something like that, also I'm almost done with an ak with a special stock made to be more lever action like, just got to get the barrel retreaded, again don't trust myself on that. Thank for the kind words, I may open a custom form and we can see what all the "can't leave it alone" nuts got, made start something...

I like those birds head grips but IMHO the pinky finger notch could be viewed as a grip enhancement. 

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3 hours ago, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

 

First off, you should be asking permission to post photos. That is my photo of my 2nd Model Russian, and it is not in public domain.

 

Secondly, the Schofield is a #3, not a #2, and they did not have a trigger guard spur. The New Model Number Three was sometimes equipped with a trigger guard spur, similar to the Russian model, but not the Schofield.

 

Other than the two examples I gave, trigger guard spurs were not commonly seen on 19th Century revolvers. The odd shaped trigger guard on the Le Mat you have pictured is not really a spur, it is just the shape of the trigger guard. Perfectly legal if you want to shoot a Le Mat because it was standard equipment.

 

Modifications not specifically allowed in the Firearms Covenants are prohibited. Period.  The idea is, customization needs to be limited. Regarding triggers and trigger guards, this is what the handbook says about triggers and trigger guards. Anything else is prohibited.

 

Triggers may be profiled

Trigger position may be adjusted.

Trigger stops may be added.-

Shotgun trigger guards may be wrapped with leather or other natural material. Bending the trigger guard on side by sides so triggers are more exposed is not allowed.

Trigger shoes are not allowed

 

Lastly, let me tell you that the trigger guard spur on a S&W Russian revolver does not make the gun any easier to shoot. Hooking a finger on the spur makes it more difficult to shoot, not easier. Trust me on this.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to up set you as I didn't know it was your pic as I found it on a search engine, I'll delete it.

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Well, guess I'm glad I asked about this as I'm going to have to fix my revolvers birdshead I made as now I'm sure I'll run into "that guy" and I guess no more trying to have fun with my revolvers or any thing else... sucks a ton of fun out of it for me... starting to seem like real steel now. Definitely a black market on a hobby I've come to love.

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Given that they said no the John wayne grip with the finger groove, there's a good chance they'll say no to the pinkie rest birdshead.  Please let us know what they say when they make a ruling. 

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3 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

Here is a link to the "MODIFICATION APPLICATION" form (aka "FMC").

 

Thanks pale, I'll shoot them the idea and see what they say.

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1 minute ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

Given that they said no the John wayne grip with the finger groove, there's a good chance they'll say no to the pinkie rest birdshead.  Please let us know what they say when they make a ruling. 

Well hope they are okay with it as I won't be able to shoot for a very good bit if I have to get all new guns... but hey everyone can shoot mouse poots 38's, may have to switch to those if I can't use mine... I have to start saving, should only take me a year or so, won't be able to shoot during that time if my club won't let me shoot. I'll have to be up front with them.

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43 minutes ago, Devil Dan said:

Well, guess I'm glad I asked about this as I'm going to have to fix my revolvers birdshead I made as now I'm sure I'll run into "that guy" and I guess no more trying to have fun with my revolvers or any thing else... sucks a ton of fun out of it for me... starting to seem like real steel now. Definitely a black market on a hobby I've come to love.

On a local level you may get away with it, who knows, but an early player of our game (China Camp) once told me that the rules apply to everyone or they apply to no one. By your own admission the birdshead grip that you made makes it more comfortable thus a grip enhancement, I would think.

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1 minute ago, Yul Lose said:

On a local level you may get away with it, who knows, but an early player of our game (China Camp) once told me that the rules apply to everyone or they apply to no one. By your own admission the birdshead grip that you made makes it more comfortable thus a grip enhancement, I would think.

Well, unfortunately looks like I'll be hang up my guns till I can get new one, was fun while it lasted...

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That's a silly standard.  Everyone shoots whatever grips they shoot because they are more comfortable.  He hand made an approximation of the perfectly legal birdshead grips.  Surely we don't intend to limit people to only store bought grips. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Devil Dan said:

Well, unfortunately looks like I'll be hang up my guns till I can get new one, was fun while it lasted...

Ask your local match officials if you can use them. Our Match Director allows Josey Wales and Outlaw categories and WB shooters at CAS matches. They may allow you to use them for a specific timeframe while you attempt a rule change or acquire other firearms to replace these.

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1 minute ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

That's a silly standard.  Everyone shoots whatever grips they shoot because they are more comfortable.  He hand made an approximation of the perfectly legal birdshead grips.  Surely we don't intend to limit people to only store bought grips. 

 

 

The grip frame is modified also.

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Buy new grip frames from Brownells. For under 250 you can revert both guns back to stock or put real birdshead or bisley grips.

 

Also if you only shoot local level, see what the match director says, at worst you can't shoot for prizes but they'll still let you shoot.

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7 hours ago, Devil Dan said:

Well, guess I'm glad I asked about this as I'm going to have to fix my revolvers birdshead I made as now I'm sure I'll run into "that guy" and I guess no more trying to have fun with my revolvers or any thing else... sucks a ton of fun out of it for me... starting to seem like real steel now. Definitely a black market on a hobby I've come to love.

 

A couple of points: 

.If you're shooting at the local level, continue. 

.The reason most trigger guards don't have a spur is that they get in the way.  For us, if they hook on something the gun will end up on the ground and you'll earn a DQ. 

.Lastly, before trying to change the rules of a game, find out what they are first.

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Just glue some wood, leather, JB Weld or something on the gripframe to get rid of the pinkie rest and you are good to go.

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I'd weld up the frames and Make me another set of grip panels.  Wouldn't be a week between competitions if that's all that I needed! 

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Posted (edited)

I think I have a good solution, there's a great metal shop I  get them to rebuild up the picky rest and the upper web and make it into a thunderer/lighting grip, there's a shooter at my club that had some built for his vaquero's and I love them. Won't be hard and shouldn't cost me more than a 100 buckaroo's or so. Also to the ones who said why I wanted to do the spurs, I was just wanting to try something interesting and was going to make it where I can changer them back and forth between the spurred guard and round guard of a lemat. I'm going to ask with the rules people before hand now, learned my lesson (hopefully). Thanks to all the ones helping with the ideas, ya guys are bosses. After I get it fixed I'll post new pics. Thanks Palewolf for the form, didn't know that existed, helps a bunch.

Edited by Devil Dan
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Devil Dan said:

I think I have a good solution, there's and great metal shop and get them to rebuild up the picky rest and the upper web and make it into a thunderer/lighting grip, there's a shooter at my club that had some built for his vaquero's and I love them. Won't be hard and shouldn't cost me more than a 100 buckaroo's or so. Also to the ones who said why I wanted to do the spurs, I was just wanting to try something interesting and was going to make it where I can changer them back and forth between the spurred guard and round guard of a lemat. I'm going to ask with the rules people before hand now, learned my lesson (hopefully). Thanks to all the ones helping with the ideas, ya guys are bosses. After I get it fixed I'll post new pics. Thanks Palewolf for the form, didn't know that existed, helps a bunch.

Glad you’re not leaving the game. You obviously are very talented and I’d like to see more of your work.

Edited by Yul Lose
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On 4/26/2019 at 10:04 AM, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

The odd shaped trigger guard on the Le Mat you have pictured is not really a spur, it is just the shape of the trigger guard. Perfectly legal if you want to shoot a Le Mat because it was standard equipment.

 

 

I was under the impression that the LeMat was not legal as a main match revolver because it have a few more chambers than 6

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