Time To Fold My Tent??

[Blackwater 53393]

The real sadness of it all is that Southern generals and the government surrendered and were, ostensibly, "welcomed back" into the Union.  THEN, opportunists and unscrupulous politicians created and instituted "RECONSTRUCTION", a pseudonym for occupation and tyrannical oppression!!  Many of the scars left from that evil remain to this day.  The treatment of southern people and southern states set reconciliation back to a point where it STILL has not completely recovered. Legal land holders and their families were driven from their ancestral homes, farms, and businesses. Honorable men were tortured, imprisoned, and even murdered simply because they served in the Confederate military. People who had sworn allegiance to the Union  and returned to legal citizenship!!  Most who survived reconstruction never got back what was theirs!!

 

So if some of you wonder why many still honor and display Confederate flags and artifacts proudly, it could be that many feel they were never welcomed back and that they were and are considered second class citizens by those who preach tolerance but are, in truth, much less than tolerant!! 

 

I'm well educated and well read. I'm mostly polite and I usually display proper manners where the situation calls for them, but there have been a number of times where I have been made light of and ridiculed after speaking in the slight southern drawl that I normally use!!  When I attended schools in the northeast, I encountered teachers who reprimanded me for using the courtesy of saying "yes Ma'am" and "no Sir" and who tried to force me to take speech therapy because of the southern drawl!!  My parents, on one occasion, were denied access to a a rental house because of my mother's accent.  I learned, VERY EARLY, that I'd better laugh it off or be ready to fight.  Others learned, at the same time, that I was willing to accommodate then in either instance!!

 

If my father or mother EVER caught me not showing respect, (Yes, Sir.) I could expect punishment.  I've brought my son up the same way.  He's a MAN!!

 

We've both been known to fly or display artifacts of the old Confederacy.  Many of our friends of other races respect the reasons we do it, and just as he and I have battled for their rights and their protection, they do the same for us!!!  It's a shame the rest of the world can't find that kind of peace!!!

 

From Bob Seger:

  'Til you've been beside a man,

You don't know what he wants.

You don't know if he cries at night.

You don't know if he don't.

When nothing comes easy,

Old nightmares are real.

'Til you've been beside a man,

You don't know how he feels!!

 

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

I know Blackwater pretty well. And I like him a lot, as do many others. And I have his back. Lots of folks may think I am a fool and I do not care. Even a toothless dog can bite.

I have his back, as, I suspect many others will say.

After many years of making the wreckage of my own past as right as I am able, I will tell you that the times I insisted that others must meet my expectations. I now realize I was as damaged and twisted as anyone, And I caused a great deal of offense. Some people are offended by our actions or words and some by THEIR expectations of us, and a need to control others because their lives are out of control. Mine certainly was. Yesterday my brother sent me a package of letters I sent him from VietNam and the years afterwards. I am amazed how distorted my thinking was. Many years later I took a searching and thorough inventory of myself and began to fix earlier wrongs and to try not  to commit more along the way. I would encourage anyone to do the same. It makes us better people no matter how good we think we are.

I am in hopes that if I have offended anyone they will look into their own souls and examine what they find. If I have offended it was not my intention.

I come to CAS for the fun and family I have found. Blackwater, and many others are my family......And Blue Boy says Hi

 

Imis

 

 

longest post I ever put up

[Noz]

10 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

The real sadness of it all is that Southern generals and the government surrendered and were, ostensibly, "welcomed back" into the Union.  THEN, opportunists and unscrupulous politicians created and instituted "RECONSTRUCTION", a pseudonym for occupation and tyrannical oppression!!  Many of the scars left from that evil remain to this day.  The treatment of southern people and southern states set reconciliation back to a point where it STILL has not completely recovered. Legal land holders and their families were driven from their ancestral homes, farms, and businesses. Honorable men were tortured, imprisoned, and even murdered simply because they served in the Confederate military. People who had sworn allegiance to the Union  and returned to legal citizenship!!  Most who survived reconstruction never got back what was theirs!!

 

So if some of you wonder why many still honor and display Confederate flags and artifacts proudly, it could be that many feel they were never welcomed back and that they were and are considered second class citizens by those who preach tolerance but are, in truth, much less than tolerant!! 

 

I'm well educated and well read. I'm mostly polite and I usually display proper manners where the situation calls for them, but there have been a number of times where I have been made light of and ridiculed after speaking in the slight southern drawl that I normally use!!  When I attended schools in the northeast, I encountered teachers who reprimanded me for using the courtesy of saying "yes Ma'am" and "no Sir" and who tried to force me to take speech therapy because of the southern drawl!!  My parents, on one occasion, were denied access to a a rental house because of my mother's accent.  I learned, VERY EARLY, that I'd better laugh it off or be ready to fight.  Others learned, at the same time, that I was willing to accommodate then in either instance!!

 

If my father or mother EVER caught me not showing respect, (Yes, Sir.) I could expect punishment.  I've brought my son up the same way.  He's a MAN!!

 

We've both been known to fly or display artifacts of the old Confederacy.  Many of our friends of other races respect the reasons we do it, and just as he and I have battled for their rights and their protection, they do the same for us!!!  It's a shame the rest of the world can't find that kind of peace!!!

 

From Bob Seger:

  'Til you've been beside a man,

You don't know what he wants.

You don't know if he cries at night.

You don't know if he don't.

When nothing comes easy,

Old nightmares are real.

'Til you've been beside a man,

You don't know how he feels!!

 

We had a snoball bush that I had to cut my own switches.  I still say Yes Mam and Yes Sir!

A discipline example from my early years.I was sitting in my first grade classroom chewing on my pencil.  My teacher said: "Jimmy, In first grade we don't chew our pencil!" I replied in the only acceptable way, " Yes Miss Mary."  She stepped behind me and I put the pencil back in my mouth.  She slapped me clear out of my desk.  You can check all of my pencils to this day and you will not find a tooth mark.

[Cowboy Junky]

Oh Blackwater keep on rollin' 

[Dantankerous]

15 hours ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said:

Yup, the South was trying to leave the union.

 

Only funny thing as a student of history, the "War of Norther Aggression" was started by a Southern attack on a Norther Fort - After the North volunteered to leave in a day or so.  But the Southern leader just could not contain himself.  Now the most likely would have started somewhere at some point, but that is the way id did start...

 

 Your post got me to thinking.

 

Out of historical curiosity...

 

South Carolina was the first state to secede from the Union in December of 1860. And yet the federal government left its troops positioned in South Carolina at Fort Moultrie. The federal troops relocated to the better fortified Fort Sumter. That the federal government had not removed its troops from a seceded Southern State and that those federal troops relocated to a much better fortified militarized position within that seceded Southern state certainly would have provoked the South. The federal army certainly had more than enough time to leave before the attack began on Fort Sumter, some three months worth of time in fact.

 

Certainly the argument could be made that the aggressiveness of the federal government in leaving its troops in position in a seceded Southern state was more than enough provocation to attack.

 

And although there was a Southern bombardment of federal or northern troops in Fort Sumter, it is my understanding that no federal troops in place in Fort Sumtner were even killed during the attack.

 

As I said, just wondering. 

[Marauder SASS #13056]

But the question of whether the session was legal was at a minimum an open question.  The South generally based it on the obsolete Articles of Confederation which was superseded by the constitution.

 

So it was not an act of aggression for the military to be there under orders.  When they were challenged, they did begin packing up to leave.  So they were not trying to start anything.  But the Southern leader definitely and consciously did.  That is not surprising as they were essentially "spoiling for a fight" and believed they could quickly fight off the North and gain independence.  Part of their reasoning made sense as much of the rest of the U.S> was not willing to fight.  They were eventually motivated in part by the attack and the drive to stop slavery.    Without those incentives, it would have been very difficult for the President to get them to fight.  So for the North, slavery was a major issue in the war.

 

So it was ill advised aggression on the part of the South.  Who knows what would have happened if they would have waited.  Such a horrible war with such a great cost to everyone.

[Dantankerous]

6 hours ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said:

But the question of whether the session was legal was at a minimum an open question.  The South generally based it on the obsolete Articles of Confederation which was superseded by the constitution.

 

So it was not an act of aggression for the military to be there under orders.  When they were challenged, they did begin packing up to leave.  So they were not trying to start anything.  But the Southern leader definitely and consciously did.  That is not surprising as they were essentially "spoiling for a fight" and believed they could quickly fight off the North and gain independence.  Part of their reasoning made sense as much of the rest of the U.S> was not willing to fight.  They were eventually motivated in part by the attack and the drive to stop slavery.    Without those incentives, it would have been very difficult for the President to get them to fight.  So for the North, slavery was a major issue in the war.

 

So it was ill advised aggression on the part of the South.  Who knows what would have happened if they would have waited.  Such a horrible war with such a great cost to everyone.

 

Good points. I'll look into the legal issues of secession from the Union more. I am sure the South had their own idea of what could legally be accomplished.

 

As there were a limited number of federal troops occupying the fort, the argument can be made there was not much threat from them. And as they could have been sieged by Beauregard's men easily, (if the South had practiced patience) a surrender of some sort might have been forthcoming precluding the subsequent bombardment of Sumter. This bombardment of Sumter was the obvious and overt moment the War began and with tensions high was not likely to be something turned back from easily.

 

Thank you for the discussion.

 

 

 

 

[Blackwater 53393]

There was NOTHING in the Constitution to prevent secession at that time.  Texas had a provision in their annexation to statehood allowing them to leave the Union. In study of both history and political science, my instructors offered opinions that the states that attempted to leave the Union were well within their rights!!  They went on to say that some form of restitution might well be due those states and to the descendants of some families who were burned out or had their land and other property taken or were killed by agents of "RECONSTRUCTION"!!

 

It is a little known and seldom mentioned fact that Ft. Sumter was established to promote and support the collection of the exorbitant taxes levied against the crops and products that came from the south!!  That installation was worse than a boil on the butt of many people in the region!!  Tax collections were often made using brutal and violent threats and tactics.  I don't wonder that the fort was attacked or that some took extreme umbrage to its very existence!!

 

  edit: I apologize if this is too political!  It IS actually historical fact and that is the spirit in which it is offered!!

[Dantankerous]

 Not political at all. History is what it is. Thank you for the insight.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Fort Sumter was BAIT to make the North look innocent of any wrongdoing.

The truth was twisted all around, just like the Alamo was.........

Respectfully,

OLG

[Calico Mary]

no....it's time for you to fold MY tent....it was still wet when I took it down this afternoon after the awards, and I just crumpled it up and stuck it in the back of my car...make sure you fold it all nice so that it will fit in the carrying bag.....

 

oh, and clean the mud off the stakes too while yer at it.....

[Yusta B.]

11 minutes ago, Calico Mary said:

no....it's time for you to fold MY tent....it was still wet when I took it down this afternoon after the awards, and I just crumpled it up and stuck it in the back of my car...make sure you fold it all nice so that it will fit in the carrying bag.....

 

oh, and clean the mud off the stakes too while yer at it.....

Good luck with that... 

[Tracker Jack Daniels,58780]

1 hour ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

There was NOTHING in the Constitution to prevent secession at that time.  Texas had a provision in their annexation to statehood allowing them to leave the Union. In study of both history and political science, my instructors offered opinions that the states that attempted to leave the Union were well within their rights!!  They went on to say that some form of restitution might well be due those states and to the descendants of some families who were burned out or had their land and other property taken or were killed by agents of "RECONSTRUCTION"!!

 

It is a little known and seldom mentioned fact that Ft. Sumter was established to promote and support the collection of the exorbitant taxes levied against the crops and products that came from the south!!  That installation was worse than a boil on the butt of many people in the region!!  Tax collections were often made using brutal and violent threats and tactics.  I don't wonder that the fort was attacked or that some took extreme umbrage to its very existence!!

 

  edit: I apologize if this is too political!  It IS actually historical fact and that is the spirit in which it is offered!!

And here is the real reason for the war.  States rights and taxation, sounds kind of like what we fought the revolutionary war about.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

On 10/7/2017 at 5:52 PM, MizPete said:

 

OK, I screwed this up.  What I want to know is how to join P.O.O.P.

First you have to know that P. O. O. P. is not a formal adjunct of any other organization, political movement, religion, or form of art.

 

Second, there are no by laws, in laws, outlaws or scofflaws and we have no written forms, officers, dues, meetings, news letters, badges, ID cards or any other items that define a "normal" club.

 

Third, BJT was the original member and founder, everyone since has been P. O. O. P. #2.

 

If anyone would care to design and produce tee shirts, bumper stickers, or anything else that indicated membership I'm be all for it, but to the best of my knowledge, no one has ever attempted this.

 

 If you are still interested, simply post the fact that you are a member of P. O. O. P. at the bottom of your  page, as I have done here, and let the world know, in loud, clear voice, that you are offended by offended people.

 

Yell POOP!!! at every occasion and welcome aboard.

 

 

[Tennessee Stud]

5 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

There was NOTHING in the Constitution to prevent secession at that time.  Texas had a provision in their annexation to statehood allowing them to leave the Union. In study of both history and political science, my instructors offered opinions that the states that attempted to leave the Union were well within their rights!!  They went on to say that some form of restitution might well be due those states and to the descendants of some families who were burned out or had their land and other property taken or were killed by agents of "RECONSTRUCTION"!!

 

It is a little known and seldom mentioned fact that Ft. Sumter was established to promote and support the collection of the exorbitant taxes levied against the crops and products that came from the south!!  That installation was worse than a boil on the butt of many people in the region!!  Tax collections were often made using brutal and violent threats and tactics.  I don't wonder that the fort was attacked or that some took extreme umbrage to its very existence!!

 

  edit: I apologize if this is too political!  It IS actually historical fact and that is the spirit in which it is offered!!

 

^ THIS HERE.

 

IS one of the... GREATEST POSTS... ON ANY... FORUM.

 

There must be a reason why you and me... get along so well.  Although... I really don't know why you tolerate my ignorance.

 

Good post, Pard.

 

ts

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

Permit me pards, as a life-long history buff, to offer a coupla clarifications. First and foremost, the Rebel flag, our beloved battle flag aka the Southern Cross is NOT the Stars and Bars. The Stars and Bars is the first national flag. There was no provision for Texas or any other state to be able to subsequently withdraw from the union after admission. It was much more widely accepted back then that secession was a states right. Didn't work out too well for us when we attempted to avail ourselves of the right to self determination back then tho. There was however a provision, due to its immense size, that Texas could divide into 5 separate states. It's still on the books but never gonna happen. Civil War aka War of Northere Aggression : North 1, South 0 ; half time. I know we kin lick 'em next time boys.

 

Y'all know the difference between yankees and damn yankees don'tcha?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yankees went home...

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

3 pages, and I read some very good posts, some very accurate on secession, reason for the Civil War, etc. But also many inaccurate post, and something's most don't even know because how History has been taught last couple decades. Some maybe even surprised about Lincoln's original stance on Slavery. I spent last night and this morning to find the best comprehensive and short introduction on many comments made here and elsewhere. Hope this helps and gives a better understanding.  The Civil War was and still is of interest to me. MT

 

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

I'm with ya Blackwater,,,  I'll ride the river with you anytime, anywhere,,,,

 

I too am tired of the foolishly offended running the show...

[MizPete]

20 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

welcome aboard.

Thank you.  I'm not much of a joiner but this is definitely my kind of organization.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

3 hours ago, MizPete said:

Thank you.  I'm not much of a joiner but this is definitely my kind of organization.

Welcome aboard.

 

POOP!!!

 

Shout it loud, shout it proud, shout it often.