Help with Cowboy45Special

[Eyesa Horg]

I think I've come up with a jig to cut down my OLD 45 Colt cases. Need some help after that part .

 

1- I'll be using a Lee "Quick trim" trimmer, the question is which "trim die" I need? I assume a 45colt will not reach down to them and I think the 45ACP is tapered if I'm not mistaken & not the same diameter.

 

2- Using a Dillon SDB, which dies will I need to reload. I assume I can size/deprime with the 45 colt----

bell, powder & seat with the 45ACP dies---But what do I need to use to crimp.

 

Any other tips greatly appreciated as I've also heard that I'll need to thin the new mouth of the shortened brass. Haven't a clue how to do that! The projects I invent for myself

 

Thanks in Advance,

EH

[Warden Callaway]

I use the RCBS 45ACP/AR seat and roll crimp die. But I'm using it in a Dillon 550B.

 

 

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/13396

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

 

2- Using a Dillon SDB, which dies will I need to reload. I assume I can size/deprime with the 45 colt----

bell, powder & seat with the 45ACP dies---But what do I need to use to crimp.

I size with a .45 Colt die.

I bell with .45 auto die (Dillon powder through expander)

Seat with a .45 auto die

Crimp with a roll-crimping .45 auto rim die. A tight crimp is needed with most powders and light slugs used in C45S. The taper crimp of a regular .45 auto die won't do that very well. So, I got a seater/crimp die for .45 auto rim and backed the seater stem off a couple of turns. Works well.

Any other tips greatly appreciated as I've also heard that I'll need to thin the new mouth of the shortened brass. Haven't a clue how to do that!

 

Have not had to thin the case mouth any, after cutting down lots of R-P, MagTech, CBC, TenX, etc, etc .45 Colt brass. I don't cut Winchester or Starline brass down because I like to keep those for real .45 Colt loading.

 

The need to cut thinner case walls is overstated, because the .45 Colt chambers are cut so darn large by all the factories producing even the revolvers. IMHO.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Plus One to Garrison Joe. I use a case trimmer with a Cordless Drill to trim. To load (Dillion 650) i use a standard Dillon 45 Colt Resize die, a standard Dillon 45 colt bell/Powder drop die, a standard 45 ACP seater die and a Redding 45 Auto Rim Crimp die. 45 ACP crimp dies (taper) aren't Muey Bueno with 45 C45S.

 

Coffinmaker

[Rio Brazos Kid]

That's one of the problems with the SDB press. Only Dillon proprietary dies will fit. Cheap solution is to get the Lee Reloader single stage press, that will accept all standard dies. About $35. Then final crimp with a 45 Auto Rim crimp die

 

These little C-Presses come in handy for lots of things, and are a good addition to any reloaders tool cabinet.

 

One other thing, the Forester Case Trimmer is far and away the best case trimmer you can own. Add the power adapter which lets you use a drill to turn it and you can PRECISION trim cases at the rate of about 6 per minute, with little effort a all.

 

RBK

[Warden Callaway]

The gun/chamber you decide to shoot the C45S in may make a difference in how you want to approach loading.

 

My Marlin 1894 45 Colt has a chamber big enough to drive a cow through. I upped the bullet diameter to 454 and use a heavy crimp to get reasonably good powder burn and reduce blowback.

 

My Cattleman revolvers have much tighter chambers and 451 throats. Blowback is not a problem. I tend to use 451 bullets and roll crimp.

 

Then I got a pair of Ruger Vaqueros in 45ACP. I found they would chamber C45S. But the chambers are very tight. So they must be loaded like 45ACP with no crimp or taper crimp.

[Ripsaw]

I believe (read here on the wire from some one else) that the SDB 45 ACP crimp die will roll crimp simply by turning it down a tad. That's what I use and it works great. No need for any special die, and no problem loading on the SDB. 45 Colt to size, 45 ACP to bell, seat and crimp.

[Eyesa Horg]

Wow---Thanks for all the info so quick! The 45AR die sounds good to check out. S'pose I could just crimp on a single stage and do the rest on the SDB. Lovin' this project already--and I'll be able to use old and mouth cracked brass again.

 

 

 

I believe (read here on the wire from some one else) that the SDB 45 ACP crimp die will roll crimp simply by turning it down a tad. That's what I use and it works great. No need for any special die, and no problem loading on the SDB. 45 Colt to size, 45 ACP to bell, seat and crimp.

 

I have 45ACP dies already-- I should be able to check that crimp theory on a 45acp brass and see if tightening actually rolls.

 

 

Thanks Again Pards

[Tom Bullweed]

My two-step trim process for turning .45 Colt into C.45S:

1. I trimmed a .50 ID bronze bushing from Lowes so I get a .92" case length when cut with my Dremel cutoff head or fine tooth (32 TPI) hacksaw.

2. Lee zip trimmer with .45 ACP guide plus a .015" washer. The inner depth of the ACP primer pocket is thicker than .45C. Not using the washer produces cases of .880, not .895.

I get about two cases per minutes and no scrap.

[CodyMaverick]

My two-step trim process for turning .45 Colt into C.45S:

1. I trimmed a .50 ID bronze bushing from Lowes so I get a .92" case length when cut with my Dremel cutoff head or fine tooth (32 TPI) hacksaw.

2. Lee zip trimmer with .45 ACP guide plus a .015" washer. The inner depth of the ACP primer pocket is thicker than .45C. Not using the washer produces cases of .880, not .895.

I get about two cases per minutes and no scrap.

 

How do you hold the case in the bushing while you're trimming? got pics?

[Carolina Gunslinger]

SDB ACP dies will roll crimp if turned down.

 

I can trim the full length .45 LC case down and chamfer it at a rate of about four a minute. Big limitation is heat during the summer time. During the cold of winter this is no problem. I pick a 20° day and go at case making. I don't have a powered case prep or it would be faster. Lyman case trimmer with power adapter.

 

Size with LC and seat and crimp with ACP/AR. This produces least work hardening and blowback.

 

There is no need to thin the case mouth.

[Slick McClade]

All you need with your square deal is a 45acp tool head on top and a 45C shell plate on bottom. I've loaded several thousand this way. Keep it simple.

[Goldsmith SASS #29116]

I've had good luck cutting down schofield brass. Walls are not as thick.

 

 

Goldsmith

[Captain Clark]

All you need with your square deal is a 45acp tool head on top and a 45C shell plate on bottom. I've loaded several thousand this way. Keep it simple.

+1.... this is my experience as well!

[Yul Lose]

That's one of the problems with the SDB press. Only Dillon proprietary dies will fit. Cheap solution is to get the Lee Reloader single stage press, that will accept all standard dies. About $35. Then final crimp with a 45 Auto Rim crimp die

 

These little C-Presses come in handy for lots of things, and are a good addition to any reloaders tool cabinet.

 

One other thing, the Forester Case Trimmer is far and away the best case trimmer you can own. Add the power adapter which lets you use a drill to turn it and you can PRECISION trim cases at the rate of about 6 per minute, with little effort a all.

 

RBK

Dittos on the Forester case trimmer. I had about 4,500 cases to trim and with the power adapter I got to where I really liked case trimming. Great machine and built to outlast most of us.

[Captain Clark]

I think I've come up with a jig to cut down my OLD 45 Colt cases. Need some help after that part .

 

1- I'll be using a Lee "Quick trim" trimmer, the question is which "trim die" I need? I assume a 45colt will not reach down to them and I think the 45ACP is tapered if I'm not mistaken & not the same diameter.

 

2- Using a Dillon SDB, which dies will I need to reload. I assume I can size/deprime with the 45 colt----

bell, powder & seat with the 45ACP dies---But what do I need to use to crimp.

 

Any other tips greatly appreciated as I've also heard that I'll need to thin the new mouth of the shortened brass. Haven't a clue how to do that! The projects I invent for myself

 

Thanks in Advance,

EH

You have heard wrong IMHO!

That's not been my experience, and I've made in excess of 500?? 45 cowboys from regular 45 Colt brass. Neck thickness on cut down brass is rarely more than .00005" difference than Colt length brass, and most often it ends up the same!

It is a useful round, and works well with black, APP, Black MZ and smokeless powders with bullet weighing 150 to 200 grains.

 

My two-step trim process for turning .45 Colt into C.45S:

1. I trimmed a .50 ID bronze bushing from Lowes so I get a .92" case length when cut with my Dremel cutoff head or fine tooth (32 TPI) hacksaw.

2. Lee zip trimmer with .45 ACP guide plus a .015" washer. The inner depth of the ACP primer pocket is thicker than .45C. Not using the washer produces cases of .880, not .895.

I get about two cases per minutes and no scrap.

 

TB has the right idea. I have used an electric motor pulley for a 1/2" shaft {.500 dia.} that was over 1" in depth which I flat surface ground to approximately .925". With your newly made depth jig held securely { clamped to bench? } you insert Colt case, hold back of cartridge case with thumb and buzz off the excess length with a Dremel or fine cut hacksaw! At this point, any case chamfering tool will clean up the rough burrs which will allow you to final trim and square on the case trimmer of your liking, Forester being my choice as well! The neck thickness issue that has been discussed has never been observed by myself after measuring perhaps 15+ brands of brass, but what do I know?

 

I do admit if you find factory made brass, that is the easiest path to follow.

Let us know how the adventure works out for you!

[Noz]

The only problem I haver had with my limited experience with C45S is trying to size with the 45 ACP sizing die. It is a tapered die and allows more blowback than I am interested in dealing with. I have a 45 Colt die that I have yet to use that I think will solve my problems.

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

I use a .45 auto die to seat, but do not crimp. I only shoot the CS ammo in my Vaqueros and have never had a problem. If I shot them in on of my 73's, that would be a different story.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

If you size your cases with a .45 auto sizer die, you reduce the case diameter down to .473" every time you load a case. A .45 Colt die, only takes the case down to .480. I get enough splits in C45S cases as it is when shooting from Rugers chambered in .45 Colt. So to prevent working the case so much, I use a .45 Colt die for sizing.

 

Now, if you are shooting from .45 auto cylinders, you may well need to use a .45 auto sizing die.

 

Bottom line - the C45S is not "just a .45 auto case with a wide rim."

 

 

Good luck, GJ

[Carolina Gunslinger]

The only problem I haver had with my limited experience with C45S is trying to size with the 45 ACP sizing die. It is a tapered die and allows more blowback than I am interested in dealing with. I have a 45 Colt die that I have yet to use that I think will solve my problems.

Nope. The .45 ACP is a straight walled case and the die is too. The die sizes the case smaller than does the .45 LC die which is why you get the increase in blowback. I have found that powder charges which will make Major PF with a 230 gr bullet in .45 ACP are what is necessary to achieve good sealing with a .45 CS with 160 gr bullets. Size with LONG COLT, seat and crimp with ACP.

[Eyesa Horg]

Thanks again folks-- This info is wonderful and probably helpful to others as well. Tom Bullweed---Thanks for the tip on the .015 washer when using the Lee trimmer.

 

Feel free to keep this thread going for everyone's benefit. I'll let 'ya know how my mileage is when I get to this project as winter progresses. Real glad to hear I already have the SDB dies & toolhead required and 1000 160 gr. bullets in stock just for this.

 

EH

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

I use 45 Colt sizing die and an autorim crimp die. 200gr pill for the Marlins keeps the blow back down, and a 160gr in the pistols with less powder makes my wife's wrists happy. Sadly, to keep peace in the family, I load 45 Colt with a filler for my pistol loads so we can always tell who's ammo is who's. If she ever stops shooting, I'll be all over those 6,000 CS cases

 

CR

[Widder, SASS #59054]

If she ever stops shooting, I'll be all over those 6,000 CS cases

 

CR

 

 

 

..........Widder

[Tom Bullweed]

Cody, I insert the .45 Colt brass into the bushing and set the bushing into my workbench vise. I add enough pressure so the brass does not spin. The bushing is good for 75 rounds or so, and the I spend another $1.40 at the hardware store and start over.

This process is for rough cutting with a hacksaw. The dremele can be done holding the bushing and case in the offhand.

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

Been thinking of giving the 45 Specials a try , presently use Schofields with 160g bullet & Red Dot,very happy with them.

What say 'ye Garrison Joe ..would the Specials have an advantage ?

[CodyMaverick]

Been thinking of giving the 45 Specials a try , presently use Schofields with 160g bullet & Red Dot,very happy with them.

What say 'ye Garrison Joe ..would the Specials have an advantage ?

 

I know you didn't ask me specifically but I've never let that stop me from expressing an opinion or asking a question....

 

If you have a load combination that you are very happy with, why would you want to change?

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

Been thinking of giving the 45 Specials a try , presently use Schofields with 160g bullet & Red Dot,very happy with them.

What say 'ye Garrison Joe ..would the Specials have an advantage ?

 

 

 

I know you didn't ask me specifically but I've never let that stop me from expressing an opinion or asking a question....

 

If you have a load combination that you are very happy with, why would you want to change?

Schofields are easier and cheaper, and if you're happy with the load, why change? On the other hand, there is something to be said for shooting a case with the capacity designed for modern powders. The loading data mirrors .45ACP recipes, and they're just cuter than a bug. My wife uses them in both rifle and pistol, with different loads for each.

 

edit to apologize for straying from the OP - which is a testament to American ingenuity.

 

CR

[Warden Callaway]

Looks like a lot of folks have taken to making their own C45S cases instend of sending off for store bought.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Been thinking of giving the 45 Specials a try , presently use Schofields with 160g bullet & Red Dot,very happy with them.

What say 'ye Garrison Joe ..would the Specials have an advantage ?

Another vote for not messing with it if it already works for you. The C45S is not magic, just a great light revolver cartridge.

 

Having to set up more dies and buy (or cut off) brass - all takes time and money.

 

I could not make a 175 grain slug work nicely in .45 Colt. Dirty and squibby when shot even at 800 FPS. So, when I made the jump to C45S, it was not "just one more step down" like you are proposing to take. I really like the Special, but probably not enough that I would change from Schofields if it was going to cost a ton.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

Another vote for not messing with it if it already works for you. The C45S is not magic, just a great light revolver cartridge.

 

Having to set up more dies and buy (or cut off) brass - all takes time and money.

 

I could not make a 175 grain slug work nicely in .45 Colt. Dirty and squibby when shot even at 800 FPS. So, when I made the jump to C45S, it was not "just one more step down" like you are proposing to take. I really like the Special, but probably not enough that I would change from Schofields if it was going to cost a ton.

 

Good luck, GJ

GJ-

 

Sometimes we do things just because we can

 

CR

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

GJ-

 

Sometimes we do things just because we can

 

CR

 

And some pards have to do things because it fits in their budget.

 

Not everyone is flush with cash, especially at this juncture. Sometimes decisions that work are better than decisions that explore the unknown reaches.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Warden Callaway]

I'm trying to get my Ruger Vaqueros in 45ACP to digest C45S. Loaded with Black2 and 160 grain bullet it's pleasant to shoot and makes a good smack on the targets and plenty of smoke. The chambers are tight tight so I test every round before boxing.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

 

And some pards have to do things because it fits in their budget.

 

Not everyone is flush with cash, especially at this juncture. Sometimes decisions that work are better than decisions that explore the unknown reaches.

 

Good luck, GJ

I'll not argue that point, just commenting on the human condition. Rube Goldberg was famous for this sort of exercise.

 

CR

[Eyesa Horg]

Cowboy Rick--- no apology needed for straying from OP. Personally I'm lovi'n all the info. I'm going to make 'em just to see if I can and I think the smaller case will be more consistent. Besides, it give me something to do with my old brass other the salvage yard. Who knows, maybe some other shooters will save me their bad brass as well. Besides I like reloading; So being able to make my own cases as well, will be way cool for an old feller.

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

Another vote for not messing with it if it already works for you. The C45S is not magic, just a great light revolver cartridge.

 

Having to set up more dies and buy (or cut off) brass - all takes time and money.

 

I could not make a 175 grain slug work nicely in .45 Colt. Dirty and squibby when shot even at 800 FPS. So, when I made the jump to C45S, it was not "just one more step down" like you are proposing to take. I really like the Special, but probably not enough that I would change from Schofields if it was going to cost a ton.

 

Good luck, GJ

Thanks GJ..Yep get what ya' saying, was more of an enquiring question..I'm probably an over thinker sometimes !