Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Shooter jacks out a live round from their rifle......round lands on the crook of their elbow......shooter finishes string correctly and grabs the ejected round from their elbow and uses it for their last shot which rang steel so the shooter hit all the targets in the correct order. How many seconds should be added to their score and why? Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Reb, SASS #54804 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 msv- 10 sec for retriving the round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 msv- 10 sec for retrieving the round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Retrieving a dropped round = MSV = 10 sec Hopefully not after January PS. Seems like a softball . Is this a trick question . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Stan, You should have Double Dog Dared me I reread that section also wasn't sure If there was a difference between ejected and dropped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 There was a nuance that has been answered by PWB's response. Shooters Handbook Page 11 • Ammunition required for reloads during the course of any stage must be carried on the shooter’s person in a bandoleer, cartridge/shotshell belt loop, pouch, holster, or pocket or be safely staged as required by stage instructions. Leather belt slide ammo loops are acceptable; however, shotgun shell slides may not be worn over shotgun loops on an ammo belt. Shotgun loops must be in a single row. Rifle and revolver ammunition may not be carried in a shotshell loop. No ammunition may be carried in the mouth, ears, nose, cleavage, or any other bodily orifice. Shooters Handbook Page 21 Failure to stage guns or ammunition at the designated position(s)/location(s) is the fault of the competitor and scored as a procedural unless the competitor is able to correct the situation, unassisted, while in the process of completing the stage under time. The penalty for using "illegally acquired" ammunition (i.e., NOT carried to the line/staged by the shooter in an approved manner) is a PROCEDURAL. Any targets hit using that ammo are scored as MISSES. NO adjustments will be made to the stage raw time. The ejected round was not brought to the line in an approved fashion for a reload but in general it was brought to the line in an approved fashion.......so it does not fall under the the illegal ammunition wording. That was what I wanted to get clarification on and I got it. Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 now I see just why you brought that up,,,,, I heard about that one!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Here's the "OMG! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE" variation of that scenario: Shooter EJECTS a rifle round while engaging targets...CATCHES the ejected round in the air (while maintaining safe muzzle control); reloads the round and completes the stage; hitting all the correct targets in correct order. Same MSV call for "retrieval" of an ejected round. No MISS. No "P" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Sorry, but I think my head just exploded... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Here's the "OMG! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE" variation of that scenario: Shooter EJECTS a rifle round while engaging targets...CATCHES the ejected round in the air (while maintaining safe muzzle control); reloads the round and completes the stage; hitting all the correct targets in correct order. Same MSV call for "retrieval" of an ejected round. No MISS. No "P" I did that years ago but with a 97 at the last Midwest regional in IL....long time ago,,, caught the round in mid air,,,, the crowd cheered wildly!!!... I missed the shot!! the crowd booed wildly!!!! nobody knew it was a msv!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldust Dan, SASS #2631Life Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 And this is why that stupid, redundant rule must go. Sorry for the hijack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 And this is why that stupid, redundant rule must go. Sorry for the hijack. No hijack...that was exactly my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 OK, spooned my brains back in... so under current rules, a dropped or ejected round that is retrieved earns a MSV but any target hit with it counts as a hit. Where the illegally acquired comes in, is a P and anything hit with one of those rounds is a miss, is everything else, cleavage ammo, hand offs, etc. The TG agenda item addresses retrieved ejected or dropped rounds, not illegally acquired rounds. I was reading and thinking too fast and thinking that ejected and dropped were handled differently from each other when Stan was verifying that they are not. Or am I still confused? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 No...it appears that you now understand the difference(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Went through a similar issue recently. Rifle jams and in clearing it two rounds fall onto the prop/shelf where I am shooting. Instinct was to pick them up and reload. After all my rifle is right there only inches away from the two rounds. Stopped myself right as Anvil Al said DON"T DO IT. (Thanks AL) Pulled the only two reloads I had on me and finished the stage. Had I needed to eject another round I wouldn't have had enough to finish the stage because all my perfectly good ammo would have been laying there inches away. Really want to see that rule changed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 good. I just hope the TG agenda item passes. Then we can argue if an ejected round lands in the cleavage when another round was carried, and one of them was grabbed and reloaded.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 good. I just hope the TG agenda item passes. Then we can argue if an ejected round lands in the cleavage when another round was carried, and one of them was grabbed and reloaded.... I know the answer to that one Grizz -- you'd grab the one from the cleavage - if it wasn't your cleavage !! :o :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Chains Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 and then there was the one about the guy that didn't know his elbow from his......orifice Yeah it seems to me that muzzle control is all we need to worry about here, but anything I drop, I am just going back to the belt for ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Here's the "OMG! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE" variation of that scenario: Shooter EJECTS a rifle round while engaging targets...CATCHES the ejected round in the air (while maintaining safe muzzle control); reloads the round and completes the stage; hitting all the correct targets in correct order. Same MSV call for "retrieval" of an ejected round. No MISS. No "P" Seen it done once. 92 kicks out round, shooter snags it outta the air throws it back in the top of the carbine and continues to march. I join the peanut gallery in big grins and didja see thats. I followed the shooter to the ULT and advised it was a penalty but I was not about to call it. Had no desire to get lynched by said admiring peanut gallery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackey Cole Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 The only time you may use ejected or dropped ammo is if it falls back to where you retrieved it from originally. Otherwise it's dead and is a msp unless it's ammo aquired illegally then its its ilegally aquired ammo and subject to a miss per round used Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 The only time you may use ejected or dropped ammo is if it falls back to where you retrieved it from originally. Otherwise it's dead and is a msp unless it's ammo aquired illegally then its its ilegally aquired ammo and subject to a miss per round used NO! a dropped round if used is only a MSV! not a miss!! see Pale Wolf's reply above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Scratch Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Ok this one happened to me Jacked a round, while reloading the spring in the feeder tube threw the round back out, I catch it in mid air and reload it. whats the call Chicken Scratch ps they gave me a MSV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Ok this one happened to me Jacked a round, while reloading the spring in the feeder tube threw the round back out, I catch it in mid air and reload it. whats the call Chicken Scratch ps they gave me a MSV That's the correct call under current rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackey Cole Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 That's what I said I said the miss was for using ilegally aquired ammo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 no! A round caught or taken off the table after being dropped and used is ONLY a MSV, not a miss,,,,, it is not illegally acquired ammo!! see the definition for illegally acquired ammo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 no! A round caught or taken off the table after being dropped and used is ONLY a MSV, not a miss, ,,,, it is not illegally acquired ammo!! see the definition for illegally acquired ammo... Illegally acquired ammunition – ammo NOT carried to the line or staged by the shooter in an approved manner. RO1 "Glossary of Terms" p.30 As has been repeatedly clarified...DROPPED OR EJECTED AMMO is NOT covered under this rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 SASS has more rule changes than NASCAR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawd Awful Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 SASS has more rule changes than NASCAR! Pretty soon only the top 10 shooters of the season will be eligible to win EOT hahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Well it's winter time and a few shooter are having cabin fever. What if.... The shooter jacks a round out of his rifle and then pulls one off his belt and levers it too fast and jacks it out and it falls right in the spot he took it from off his belt and then he picks up that same round and loads and shoots it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Well it's winter time and a few shooter are having cabin fever. What if.... The shooter jacks a round out of his rifle and then pulls one off his belt and levers it too fast and jacks it out and it falls right in the spot he took it from off his belt and then he picks up that same round and loads and shoots it. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 The U.S. judge gives the shooter a 10.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Well it's winter time and a few shooter are having cabin fever. What if.... The shooter jacks a round out of his rifle and then pulls one off his belt and levers it too fast and jacks it out and it falls right in the spot he took it from off his belt and then he picks up that same round and loads and shoots it. that sorta happen to me once,,,, sxs, kick out two fired hulls, grab two new ones,,,, ready to put them in,,,, nope,,,, one was new one was one of the empties... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Gambler Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 How about if a live round is ejected and it falls right back into the chamber? Can you shoot it without penalty? Next question, what if it falls back in there after having hit something, like the roof, a prop, your hat, or even your hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 How about if a live round is ejected and it falls right back into the chamber? Can you shoot it without penalty? Next question, what if it falls back in there after having hit something, like the roof, a prop, your hat, or even your hand? That happens all the time...and has been ruled a NO CALL as long as the shooter maintains muzzle control while trying to catch the airborne round in the chamber of a long gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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