diablo slim Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Do you draw cross draw with strong hand and return with weak hand? is this legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 No reason why not.... certainly could do it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Yes........Yes....Good Luck Jefro Relax-Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 If I was going to use a cross draw. That's the way I would do it. Perfectly legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diablo slim Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 Thanks guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I started out shooting duelist with cross draw. I was advised the best way was to do the twist, draw the left gun first, twist, return with left hand and draw right gun. I got tired of all that twisting and getting reminders from the RO so I got right/left holsters and started shooting double duelist. I'm too old and stiff to twist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 It is certainly legal... HOWEVER...... when you return it to leather make sure that the barrel gets started into the holster while within the 170 degree safety plane. Once the barrel has been started, then you can continue to holster the gun without fear of penalty. You do NOT, in all cases, have to do the "Dance". It depends upon your stance, and where the holster is worn. Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I started out shooting duelist with cross draw. I was advised the best way was to do the twist, draw the left gun first, twist, return with left hand and draw right gun. I got tired of all that twisting and getting reminders from the RO so I got right/left holsters and started shooting double duelist. I'm too old and stiff to twist. I don't "twist" and I haven't been accosted by uninformed TO/ROs who don't know that no that you are not "required" to do so. I take a stance that allows me to draw and re-holster the cross draw gun without any unnecessary extra contortion. And yes! I re-holster with the weak hand. I've even begun to practice re-holstering the strong side pistol with the weak hand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attica Jack #23953 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Yes, that is the way I do it. Making sure the 170 rule is not violated, and using the weak hand, grab, from the top the cylinder and barrel, then return to leather. With a little practice, it becomes one fluid motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I started out shooting duelist with cross draw. I was advised the best way was to do the twist, draw the left gun first, twist, return with left hand and draw right gun. I got tired of all that twisting and getting reminders from the RO so I got right/left holsters and started shooting double duelist. I'm too old and stiff to twist. Twisting... Gawd...I wish folks would stop with the constant mention of twisting...dancing...etc, etc. That said, yes, X-Draw first...just ask National and World Champ FJT. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Twisting... Gawd...I wish folks would stop with the constant mention of twisting...dancing...etc, etc. That said, yes, X-Draw first...just ask National and World Champ FJT. Phantom What's the official term for the cross draw two step? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 What's the official term for the cross draw two step? There is NO required "Step", "Dance", "Twist". That's the point...continual mentioning of this concept just perpetuates a false requirement. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six-Shot Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I started out shooting duelist with cross draw. I was advised the best way was to do the twist, draw the left gun first, twist, return with left hand and draw right gun. I got tired of all that twisting and getting reminders from the RO so I got right/left holsters and started shooting double duelist. I'm too old and stiff to twist. Me too! I got sick of hearing it every time I got to the line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Me too! I got sick of hearing it every time I got to the line! Then tell "Them" to show you the rule! Oy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skid Roper Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Does the original pistol need to be completely holstered before pulling the second one, or can you be doing both at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Does the original pistol need to be completely holstered before pulling the second one, or can you be doing both at the same time? Once the first gun has been fired completely...you can do whatever ya want with the second pistol...whenever ya want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 D Slim, If my recollection is correct, FJT, who was a Champion duelist for 2-3 years, had great expertise in the use of cross draw. You might do a little search and find some videos. b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I learned that from a junior shooter that has since given into girls!!! He was the first one I see do it and I've been doing it ever since. I've never been called for breaking the 170 because I don't!!! It saves a lot of time! Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I don't "twist" and I haven't been accosted by uninformed TO/ROs who don't know that no that you are not "required" to do so. I take a stance that allows me to draw and re-holster the cross draw gun without any unnecessary extra contortion. And yes! I re-holster with the weak hand. I've even begun to practice re-holstering the strong side pistol with the weak hand! Ain't nobody gonna tell somebody as big and ugly as you are that he is doing something wrong! You gonna make it to Smoking Guns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 There is NO required "Step", "Dance", "Twist". That's the point...continual mentioning of this concept just perpetuates a false requirement. Phantom The people running our local matches are most insistent that the shooter twist on drawing and holstering at loading and unloading table and at firing line. I suspect it's done in an effort to drill into new shooters the 170º rule. If you didn't twist, they would assume you violated the rule. Who's to know if you keep within 169º or 171º? It's a judgment call if not blatant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 The people running our local matches are most insistent that the shooter twist on drawing and holstering at loading and unloading table and at firing line. I suspect it's done in an effort to drill into new shooters the 170º rule. If you didn't twist, they would assume you violated the rule. Who's to know if you keep within 169º or 171º? It's a judgment call if not blatant. Then they ALL need to go back to RO class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Enuff Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Just out of curiosity Warden Callaway is your crossdraw worn at an angle or is it set up to be pretty much straight hang? It makes a difference to why you might get reminders. As long as when your muzzle clears leather it is pointing EITHER straight down OR downrange within the 170 you could in theory FACE THE CROWD UPRANGE when you draw or reholster. If the gun is pointing straight down you could draw it facing any direction as long as the very next motion is to move it into the downrange 170. Same with returning the gun to leather. As long as you take the gun from the 170 arc and turn it straight down to put it away you could in theory face any direction while putting it away as long as you don't wave it around or miss badly while stabbing at the holster and point uprage or sweep someone other than yourself (watch out for the TO). The assumption with a classic crossdraw is that it is being worn at quite an angle... which means you have to be aware of the angle when the muzzle goes in and out. Many of us wear a straight hang crossdraw to avoid this issue entirely because at that point you should have all the same latitude afforded to a double strong side shooter. There must be allowance for holstering and unholstering. There is no mention of which way you must face. As long as you are not sweeping anyone else but yourself, or obviously pointing the gun uprange you are ok. I'd love to see an official video posted by the RO committee where it can be linked to and referenced demonstrating this and all the permutations of it so that we can put this to bed once and for all. All this applies to duelist category as well, only difference is that as a duelist you can not have two LOADED guns in hand at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six-Shot Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Then tell "Them" to show you the rule! Oy... Actually it turned out to be a good thing. That was ten years ago when I was a "newbie" and didn't know no difference. Now I shoot my pistols with two "strong side" holsters (with one or two hands in B-Western) faster than I ever intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 The people running our local matches are most insistent that the shooter twist on drawing and holstering at loading and unloading table and at firing line. I suspect it's done in an effort to drill into new shooters the 170º rule. If you didn't twist, they would assume you violated the rule. Who's to know if you keep within 169º or 171º? It's a judgment call if not blatant. Tell them that they are ignorant. Then ask what the penalty is for missing your straight draw holster during reholstering. And then let me know where ya shoot...cuz I ain't NEVER wanting to shoot with a bunch of folks that have that kind of attitude. Cheers! Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Goodnight Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 When I first started I used to do the "Dance" in a big and time consuming way. I shot pistols (Right Hander) with my right foot forward. Then I learned to shoot pistols with my left foot forward (Thanks to Dusty Buckboard) and avoided the need to dance altogether. I have my cross-draw holster inside of my left hip bone almost vertical. I draw it with my right and bring it home with my left. I tried double strong sides but am very uncomfortable with the pass from my left to right hand. Putting it away with my left hand feels A-OK but going the other way doesn't and it's much slower for me. Different Folks, different strokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Just out of curiosity Warden Callaway is your crossdraw worn at an angle or is it set up to be pretty much straight hang? It makes a difference to why you might get reminders. As long as when your muzzle clears leather it is pointing EITHER straight down OR downrange within the 170 you could in theory FACE THE CROWD UPRANGE when you draw or reholster. If the gun is pointing straight down you could draw it facing any direction as long as the very next motion is to move it into the downrange 170. Same with returning the gun to leather. As long as you take the gun from the 170 arc and turn it straight down to put it away you could in theory face any direction while putting it away as long as you don't wave it around or miss badly while stabbing at the holster and point uprage or sweep someone other than yourself (watch out for the TO). The assumption with a classic crossdraw is that it is being worn at quite an angle... which means you have to be aware of the angle when the muzzle goes in and out. Many of us wear a straight hang crossdraw to avoid this issue entirely because at that point you should have all the same latitude afforded to a double strong side shooter. There must be allowance for holstering and unholstering. There is no mention of which way you must face. As long as you are not sweeping anyone else but yourself, or obviously pointing the gun uprange you are ok. I'd love to see an official video posted by the RO committee where it can be linked to and referenced demonstrating this and all the permutations of it so that we can put this to bed once and for all. All this applies to duelist category as well, only difference is that as a duelist you can not have two LOADED guns in hand at the same time. I actually wore two right hand holsters to my first two matches last fall as I had not acquired belt/holster setup. I wore the "left" right hand holster just inside of pelvic bone. The holster was a Tom Threepersons design and hang more or less vertical. I don't feel like I was singled out with the reminders to twist on draw. The reminder was always accompanied with a quote of the 170º rule. I do see in videos people wearing cross draw holsters at an low angle. I'd suspect if you didn't start standing nearly sideways to the targets, you couldn't help but break the 170º rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I actually wore two right hand holsters to my first two matches last fall as I had not acquired belt/holster setup. I wore the "left" right hand holster just inside of pelvic bone. The holster was a Tom Threepersons design and hang more or less vertical. I don't feel like I was singled out with the reminders to twist on draw. The reminder was always accompanied with a quote of the 170º rule. I do see in videos people wearing cross draw holsters at an low angle. I'd suspect if you didn't start standing nearly sideways to the targets, you couldn't help but break the 170º rule. The 170 is the rule...not stoopid dancing. Yeah...it's a pet peeve of mine cuz sooooo many folks just don't understand that the "Dance" is NOT A REQUIREMENT. And adding "Rules" just to make sure that a rule ain't broke is stoopid and lazy...IMNSHO. Cheers! Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 from Shooter's handbook, last point of GUNFIGHTER on page 14: Two standard holsters are required, one on each side. No cross-draw or “butt forward” configurations are allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 from Shooter's handbook, last point of GUNFIGHTER on page 14: Two standard holsters are required, one on each side. No cross-draw or “butt forward” configurations are allowed. That is for GFer. This tread is about Duelist. Different category, different rules. Lets stick with the topic. Duelist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Ain't nobody gonna tell somebody as big and ugly as you are that he is doing something wrong! You gonna make it to Smoking Guns? I'll have you know I'm big and purty!! Yep I'm working' out the details now! Gonna' shoot Outlaw if they'll let me!! The 170 is the rule...not stoopid dancing. Yeah...it's a pet peeve of mine cuz sooooo many folks just don't understand that the "Dance" is NOT A REQUIREMENT. And adding "Rules" just to make sure that a rule ain't broke is stoopid and lazy...IMNSHO. Cheers! Phantom I've been known to tell a TO/RO, "I don't dance and Barishnikov don't shoot!!" I'll grin and add that, "I might sing a little now and then!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shoer 27979 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Then they ALL need to go back to RO class. + 1 with what Al said The ones who keep saying you need to do the dance, I will bet cannot even show you where 170* is on the firing line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six-Shot Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I've been known to tell a TO/RO, "I don't dance and Barishnikov don't shoot!!" I'll grin and add that, "I might sing a little now and then!!" LMAO!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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