Reshoot or not

[Most Wanted]

I have read the rules but I have seen reshoots given that sometimes don't fall within them . Now don't go on a rule quoting frenzy. I would just like to know where some have seen the "judgement call" implemented . One example I can think of is when one shootgun target is left up and it's one of those targets that are kinda hard to tell to some . So the shooter moves on to fire next gun and spotters start yelling one up . Shooter has somewhat impaired hearing before earplugs go in . So shooter pauses for what feels like a minute to figure out what is going on . Turns out he knew the target was up but he was out of hulls . Moves on to finish stage . Yes tell me what you would do but I would also like to hear what you have seen if dfferent . Have some found this to be a gray area ? Try to listen and not judge if you were not there .

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

No Reshoot...

 

Don't see any reason to give one.

 

Cheers!

 

Phantom

[Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L]

No Reshoot...

 

Don't see any reason to give one.

 

Cheers!

 

Phantom

I agree

 

KK

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Howdy Most Wanted.

 

In your example, it appears that any 'coaching' was correct and based on that, I wouldn't give a reshoot.

 

EDIT: I'm deaf. there are times that I just tell the TO to let me make my mistakes and not say anything.

 

 

..........Widder

 

[Charles B. Gatewood SASS #48517]

I've seen it happen and no re-shoot. I hate to see it happen, but it does.

 

 

CBG

[Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580]

Nope, no reshoot. If he was out of shells, it wasn't a prop or target failure, so there's no reason for a reshoot.

[Anvil Al #59168]

NOPE.

[Charles B. Gatewood SASS #48517]

Question. Was the shooter short on shells coming to the line? I'm only speaking for myself, but as a TO, if he was I would mention it to him.

I've given boxes of shells to shooters when they have run out and are going to call it a day, just to keep them shooting.

 

CBG

[Most Wanted]

No the shooter was not short to start. Just ran out. I agree that this should be a no shoot but has any one seen a situation that falls between the cracks. I had an RO instructor tell me about a reshoot he awarded that was not within the written rule. Just wondering how often it happens and the unusual circumstances that caused it.

[Most Wanted]

Howdy Most Wanted.

In your example, it appears that any 'coaching' was correct and based on that, I wouldn't give a reshoot.

EDIT: I'm deaf. there are times that I just tell the TO to let me make my mistakes and not say anything.


..........Widder
[/quo

That also brings up a good point. In this case it was proper coaching and the rule book talks about RO proper and improper coaching. But have you seen a posse member ( not an RO ) offer up some improper coaching and a reshoot be awarded.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

It happens...not often, but often enough that the MIScalls are sometimes posted here on the Wire.

There WILL BE times that the T/O must make a decision on a situation that isn't EXACTLY covered by a rule...

in that case, s/he does the best they can at the time.

That's why we have an appeals process...hopefully, if a call is made in error, it will be corrected at a higher level.

 

 

The restart/reshoot criteria are pretty straight-forward...but, as requested, I won't post the rules here for you.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

The rules are pretty clear about WHOSE "coaching" may be considered in a reshoot situation as well.

 

But again, I leave that up to you to find in the rules.

 

Have you taken/attended any RO Courses??

[Most Wanted]

The rules are pretty clear about WHOSE "coaching" may be considered in a reshoot situation as well.

 

But again, I leave that up to you to find in the rules.

 

Have you taken/attended any RO Courses??

 

 

Yes , Thats were I heard the story about the reshoot that was not within the rules . I told him I must be a harda$$ because I would'nt have given it . This was a few years ago but I have seen (was over ruled at the time ) and heard of some that did not go by the letter of the law .

 

Since I was just asking what people have done and seen in a situation like that , not " Whats the call " I don't understand why you would ask that last question .

[Goody, SASS #26190]

Local monthly match we call rather loose. Have seen numerous reshoots given against the letterof the rule. I view these as friendly get togethers, practice sessions if you will. Larger matches call for more adherence to the rules. JMHO

[Most Wanted]

Goody , thank you for your honest answer . Thats all I'm asking . I hope you don't get flamed or asked if you've taken the RO courses .

[Anvil Al #59168]

While I said NOPE.

 

I do agree with Goody.

 

Most of our local matches are smaller. And we do tend to give more than what would be done at a big match.

[Most Wanted]

Any examples of what people might let go at a monthly but not at a big match .

[Grizzly Dave]

No Reshoot...

 

Don't see any reason to give one.

 

Cheers!

 

Phantom

 

 

I agree

 

KK

 

Yup, me too. No re-shoot.

 

All the re-shoots I can remember were pretty clear cut, prop failure, timer quit working, or RO interference.

[Griff]

Any examples of what people might let go at a monthly but not at a big match .

 

Handin' a shooter that shotshell, I've given & recv'd.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Handin' a shooter that shotshell, I've given & recv'd.

 

That habit is the one that bit a couple shooters in the tail @ EoT...leading to the implementation of the "use of illegally acquired ammo" rule.

[Rance - SASS # 54090]

I know things get let go a little at our monthly shoots...

 

I can't say that I really agree with it but I don't cause a fuss about it..

 

For me... My monthly shoots.. (practice match.. friendly match, whatever)

I'd like the rules called the way they are suppose to be.. strictly for my learnin' experiences..

 

If clubs fail to call the rules correctly as written..

I can see an inexperienced shooter that might go to a big annual match

thinkin' well "so and so let me do it at my home club"..

"They never told me I couldn't do it.."

"They never said it was wrong.."

 

 

Rance

Thinkin' if yer gonna let 'em get by with sumthin'

Be sure and tell 'em that ain't legal...

 

 

Edit: My wife Lacey says she ain't a competive shooter..

But I hear all the way home when one of the other shooters beat here because

a correct call wasn't made on them..

Believe me... it matters at monthlies too

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

Giving re-shoots at monthlies can lead to bad behaviors and bite you at bigger events. Seeing too many given were shooter didn't follow stage instructions, anywere from shooting the scenario differently then written and explained, to pulling shotgun shells from belt when instructions called for getting them out of cigar box placed on table. Friendly monthly yes, but also allowing mistakes to be rewarded, and taking away from shooters responsibility. Then to top it off, most that do get a re-shoot, then go directly to loading table to re-shoot, instead of back of line. MT

 

And re-shoots at above matches. I've seen them given when they shouldn't have been.

[Ace_of_Hearts]

Handin' a shooter that shotshell, I've given & recv'd.

The shooter is welcome to SAFELY stage his guns, return to his cart and load shells in his belt or bandoleer, and then return to the firing line where he can continue the stage where he left off.

Makes for a humorous lesson!

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

^{If Widder is deaf should we type using a larger font???}

[Ace_of_Hearts]

Giving re-shoots at monthlies can lead to bad behaviors and bite you at bigger events. Seeing too many given were shooter didn't follow stage instructions, anywere from shooting the scenario differently then written and explained, to pulling shotgun shells from belt when instructions called for getting them out of cigar box placed on table. Friendly monthly yes, but also allowing mistakes to be rewarded, and taking away from shooters responsibility. Then to top it off, most that do get a re-shoot, then go directly to loading table to re-shoot, instead of back of line. MT

 

And re-shoots at above matches. I've seen them given when they shouldn't have been.

I agree.......

No re-shoots for shooter error with or without proper coaching.

I have not called penalties on NEW shooters at monthly shoots but have used the time as learning moments to reinforce what they should have learned in an ROI course. (The most common being de-cocking). (New shooters have a habit of loading their shotgun and then moving both feet a little before taking the shot.)

If they have already had their moment in the sun, then the penalty stands.

[Anvil Al #59168]

Gun malfunctions will sometimes be given a reshoot at monthly's that would not been given at a bigger shoot.

 

Not saying I agree with them being given out. But you do see them.

 

 

Have gotten where I like to practice getting through the stage best I can even at a monthly.

In case that same thing happens at a big one. I will have done it, and got through it, the best I could

with as little wasted time as possible.

[Griff]

That habit is the one that bit a couple shooters in the tail @ EoT...leading to the implementation of the "use of illegally acquired ammo" rule.

Hence it's a rare, "sometimes" thing.

[Rance - SASS # 54090]

^{If Widder is deaf should we type using a larger font???}

 

Thanks... now that's funny...

 

 

Rance

Thinkin' he's gotta quick sense of humor...

 

 

OH YEAH... FERGOT ABOUT WIDDER....

I SAID IT WAS FUNNY... QUICK SENSE OF HUMOR!!

[Captain Bill Burt]

ROI Page 22 says:

 

"SASS matches above the club level are "no alibi" matches. Once the first round goes down range, the competitor is committed to the stage and must finish the stage to the best of his or her ability. Reshoots/restarts are not awarded for ammunition or firearm malfunctions."

 

I read that to indicate that at the club level reshoots/restarts can be awarded for ammunition or firearm malfunctions.

 

None of our local clubs do that other than an occasional exception for a young shooter or a new shooter.

[Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884]

We follow the rules at monthlies just as if it were the Western Regional. No difference for kids or novices. Makes for a fast education.

 

Fillmore

[Widder, SASS #59054]

^{If Widder is deaf should we type using a larger font???}

 

 

Thanks... now that's funny...

 

 

Rance

Thinkin' he's gotta quick sense of humor...

 

 

OH YEAH... FERGOT ABOUT WIDDER....

I SAID IT WAS FUNNY... QUICK SENSE OF HUMOR!!

 

 

Yep, type real big. Make it big enough where I can hear ya all the way over here in E.TN.

 

and ifn ya ever time me at a match, put the timer about 2 inches outside my hat brim with the buzzer aimed right at my left ear. I can 'usually' make out the 'BEEP' when its in that position.

 

One of the good things about not hearing much is that I don't have to worry about listening to my dings because in most of my hits, I don't hear them. I just try to shoot and move on.

 

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

..........Widder

[Most Wanted]

I've seen too many new comers old and young that have obviously been focusing on running the guns fast but not adhering to basic gun safety. I cut them zero slack. 8 to 80 if your priorities are misplaced I'm gonna ring you up.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

The shooter is welcome to SAFELY stage his guns, return to his cart and load shells in his belt or bandoleer, and then return to the firing line where he can continue the stage where he left off.

Makes for a humorous lesson!

Been there, done that. All them folks still bring it up from time to time. Can't shoot them BP shot shells if they're hangin' in the bandoleer on the cart!

 

CR

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

To the OP -

 

Re-shoot at a monthly went to a guy who had given his 38 rifle to a new shooter at the last minute, so he grabs his .45 and sticks it in his cart. 1st stage he shoots pistols, picks up his rifle and levers it, it's a .45 loaded with the 38 bullets he had with him for the match, and one of them falls out the end of the barrel onto the ground. Why would you penalize a guy for pitching in?

 

Nobody had a problem with it. Can't think of a conjured up situation, but I'll know it when I see it. No slack at larger matches, but all angles of the rules should be examined before you deny a re-shoot out of hand.

 

CR

[Captain Bill Burt]

I've seen too many new comers old and young that have obviously been focusing on running the guns fast but not adhering to basic gun safety. I cut them zero slack. 8 to 80 if your priorities are misplaced I'm gonna ring you up.

I'm with you 100%, I was specifically referring to firearm or ammo malfunctions, not safety infractions. Though I've seen restarts/reshoots for those too......

 

The most common restart I've seen has been given to people who come off the LT with a cocked hammer on their rifle.