New Rule 2015 ?

[Most Wanted]

Larson , Phantom and others were right when they said the new long gun rule would not change the safety of the game due to the fact that under the old rule some shooters would choose not to open the action and take the msv . The only thing it changed was the penalty and that was only if there was a live or spent round in the gun .So moving forward I propose that we think about making the pistol rule more in line with the long guns . A shot dry and cocked pistol is no more dangerous than a long gun that is closed and cocked with a spent round in the action . Under the current rule the pistol infraction will give you a sdq while the long gun will give you msv although they carry the same amount of danger . People have been returning cocked pistols to leather accidently or inadvertently for years so the safety of the game won't change just the penalty . So change the rule to msv unless there is a live round in the pistol then it should be a sdq . Ok , you may think I'm poking at the new rifle rule but that is not the case . Like I said at the beginning Larson and Phantom made good points about perceived safety . Besides my biggest problem with the long gun rule was the possibility of other people touching the long guns . With this rule that is of no concern .

[Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L]

Sounds good get with your TG write up a proposal and have him or you submit it to the ROC for consideration.

 

Thanks

KK

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Why 2015 instead of 2014?

[Blastmaster]

Be sure to note that you will reduce the possibility of pinching the trigger finger (safety factor) when slam firing the hammer on the pistol.

[Cypress Sun]

YGTBFSM

[Most Wanted]

K K , I need to learn more about the goings on . As I mentioned to you I also have a problem that a club of 30 carries the same weight as a club of 300 in the current voting system . I think it would be possible to add the individual votes for a more acurate consenus of what the shooters wanted . And yes I am ok with being on the losing side . I won't be seeing any shooters until Fla so I will do more digging there .

 

GCK , I think its to late for 2014

 

C S , I have no idea what that means . Tell me in Fla .

[Anvil Al #59168]

I don't see that as much of a problem as almost 2/3 of the clubs did not vote at all.

[Most Wanted]

I don't see that as much of a problem as almost 2/3 of the clubs did not vote at all.

 

Agreed , but maybe some clubs are having problems securing a TG . I know that some TGs are already covering a lot of ground . Maybe there could be a way for shooters to sign in and vote online . Maybe start a post just for votes . I'm not a computer guy . There is probably lots of shooters that could answer that .

[Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L]

K K , I need to learn more about the goings on . As I mentioned to you I also have a problem that a club of 30 carries the same weight as a club of 300 in the current voting system . I think it would be possible to add the individual votes for a more acurate consenus of what the shooters wanted . And yes I am ok with being on the losing side . I won't be seeing any shooters until Fla so I will do more digging there .

 

GCK , I think its to late for 2014

 

C S , I have no idea what that means . Tell me in Fla .

MW,

when you have an idea like this, it doesn't need a vote by the club, it can be submitted by you to the ROC, it helps that others like it and just because you take the time to submit it doesn't mean it will make it up for vote at the convention. But you never can tell.

 

KK

[Grizzly Dave]

Nope, no thanks. Long guns are restaged with barrels pointed in a safe direction, pistols are generally restaged in the holster often sweeping the shooter as it's being done. Were there to be a live round under a cocked hammer, the likelihood of an injury is FAR greater on the pistol than the rifle.

 

Edited to add PWBs comments from another thread

 

 

...

 

As far as SASS rules are concerned:

The hammer of a revolver can only be dropped via two methods

1) Decocking (carefully lowering the hammer down)

or

2) Firing/dry firing (pulling the trigger & letting the hammer "free fall")

 

A rifle can be "made safe" by doing either of those actions OR
3) Opening the action.

 

You may want to walk next to someone who just came off the line with a cocked pistol in his holster, but I sure don't want to.

[Badlands Bob #61228]

Nope, no thanks. Long guns are restaged with barrels pointed in a safe direction, pistols are generally restaged in the holster often sweeping the shooter as it's being done. Were there to be a live round under a cocked hammer, the likelihood of an injury is FAR greater on the pistol than the rifle.

Yep, seen it happen. If your going so fast that your making dangerous mistakes, there needs to be some serious penalties. Reholstering a cocked pistol is just asking for trouble.

[Yul Lose]

What Dave said^^^

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

When a long gun is laid down cocked and a round under the hammer it is pointed in a safe direction. When a pistol is holstered cocked with a round under the hammer it is pointed at the shooters leg. I feel the long gun is MUCH safer in this situation

 

Dang! I'm way slow tonight.

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

When a long gun is laid down cocked and a round under the hammer it is pointed in a safe direction. When a pistol is holstered cocked with a round under the hammer it is pointed at the shooters leg. I feel the long gun is MUCH safer in this situation.

+1, that being said type up a email and send your thoughts and ideas to the ROC. Or have your TG do it for you.

[Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385]

K K , I need to learn more about the goings on . As I mentioned to you I also have a problem that a club of 30 carries the same weight as a club of 300 in the current voting system . I think it would be possible to add the individual votes for a more acurate consenus of what the shooters wanted . And yes I am ok with being on the losing side . I won't be seeing any shooters until Fla so I will do more digging there .

 

GCK , I think its to late for 2014

 

C S , I have no idea what that means . Tell me in Fla .

 

 

The Seige is going to be fun I can see (hear) it now, lol

 

 

AO

[BLACKFOOT SASS #11947]

A long gun is restaged with the muzzle pointing in a safe direction after it is fired. A pistol that is reholstered after the shooting string does NOT have the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.

 

Blackfoot

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

A long gun is restaged with the muzzle pointing in a safe direction after it is fired. A pistol that is reholstered after the shooting string does NOT have the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.

 

Blackfoot

 

And with the cant on many folks rigs, the cowboy's muzzle of his cocked pistol is pointed straight at his brains when in the holster...

 

Even if his rig is not set up that way, there are a lot of arteries there you don't want to shoot through!

[Dang It Dan 13202]

I am going to break my own rule here and post......

 

The fact that you may or may not change the penalty for reholstering a cocked pistol will DO NOTHING to prevent it from happening. No one "plans" on doing it. Making it less painful will NOT make it less prevalent and conversely if you make it a MDQ you will just create the occasional full-time Loading Table Officer.

 

You can't penalize your way out of shooter error.

[Most Wanted]

When a long gun is laid down cocked and a round under the hammer it is pointed in a safe direction. When a pistol is holstered cocked with a round under the hammer it is pointed at the shooters leg. I feel the long gun is MUCH safer in this situation

 

Dang! I'm way slow tonight.

A shot dry cocked gun pointing at my leg is as safe as a shot dry rifle pointing at the berm . Neither gun can hurt anyone. Again pistols have been holstered cocked for years. The rule will not change that but will bring it in line with the also harmless rifle. If the pistol has a live round then sdq just like the rifle.

[Most Wanted]

Nope, no thanks. Long guns are restaged with barrels pointed in a safe direction, pistols are generally restaged in the holster often sweeping the shooter as it's being done. Were there to be a live round under a cocked hammer, the likelihood of an injury is FAR greater on the pistol than the rifle.

 

Edited to add PWBs comments from another thread

 

 

 

 

You may want to walk next to someone who just came off the line with a cocked pistol in his holster, but I sure don't want to.

 

 

I have walked next to someone with a cocked pistol in their holster. That's the point. The rule won't change the safety factor at all. Only the penalty. People do not holster a cocked pistol on purpose. No rule will stop that from happening.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

I can vouch for the fact that one of the most disconcerting sounds one might hear is the CLICK! when a shooter pulls the trigger on a holstered/cocked revolver...especially when standing right next to it.

 

..."harmless" or not.

[Captain Bill Burt]

Yep, seen it happen. If your going so fast that your making dangerous mistakes, there needs to be some serious penalties. Reholstering a cocked pistol is just asking for trouble.

 

Me too, not pretty or fun.

I can vouch for the fact that one of the most disconcerting sounds one might hear is the CLICK! when a shooter pulls the trigger on a holstered/cocked revolver...especially when standing right next to it.

 

..."harmless" or not.

The other sound you might hear is even more disconcerting...............hence I do not support this proposed rule.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Me too, not pretty or fun.

The other sound you might hear is even more disconcerting...............hence I do not support this proposed rule.

 

Haven't experienced THAT under those circumstances (yet) ... & hope I never do.

[BLACKFOOT SASS #11947]

My prediction is that the penalty for holstering a cocked revolver will NEVER be removed!

 

Blackfoot

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

My prediction is that the penalty for holstering a cocked revolver will NEVER be removed!

 

Blackfoot

 

...or downgraded

[Chicken Scratch]

Another scary thought is a cocked live round in cross draw rig then you could shoot the Pard next to you

[Blastmaster]

So, how many of you all carry CCW with one in the chamber, hammer cocked (is if it is a semi),,,, in holster and a 5+/- # trigger pull?

 

edit:hammer cocked or firing mechanism activated,,, take your pick,,,, but I hope you get my drift.

[Grizzly Dave]

So, how many of you all carry CCW with one in the chamber, hammer cocked (is if it is a semi),,,, in holster and a 5+/- # trigger pull?

 

edit:hammer cocked or firing mechanism activated,,, take your pick,,,, but I hope you get my drift.

 

BIG difference IMO. A carry gun is generally holstered carefully and calmly, a CAS pistol is holstered in a hurry under the stress of the clock.

[Blastmaster]

BIG difference IMO. A carry gun is generally holstered carefully and calmly, a CAS pistol is holstered in a hurry under the stress of the clock.

Once the firearm is holstered, it is holstered and in it;s final resting place, safe, providing the hand is off it.. I am not suggesting that a penalty shouldn't apply but more of a counter point to your statement of not wanting to stand beside some one with a cocked pistol in their holster.

[Madd Mike #8595]

So, how many of you all carry CCW with one in the chamber, hammer cocked (is if it is a semi),,,, in holster and a 5+/- # trigger pull?

 

edit:hammer cocked or firing mechanism activated,,, take your pick,,,, but I hope you get my drift.

I do

.....I do

 

geeeese.

not the same thing at all

 

I wood knot bee holstering the thing under a time clock during a competition, while reaching for my next gunn

[Grizzly Dave]

Once the firearm is holstered, it is holstered and in it;s final resting place, safe, providing the hand is off it.. I am not suggesting that a penalty shouldn't apply but more of a counter point to your statement of not wanting to stand beside some one with a cocked pistol in their holster.

Fair enough, I do not want to stand next to someone with a cocked and possibly loaded pistol in their holster if it was put there in the heat of competition. Better?

[Blastmaster]

Fair enough, I do not want to stand next to someone with a cocked and possibly loaded pistol in their holster if it was put there in the heat of competition. Better?

Well Grizz,,, I personally would have a heightened concern, at the time,when some one was reholstering a cocked pistol,,, just like someone forcefully restaging a closed and cocked long gun that displayed uncontrolled motions of bouncing , spinning/slithering/ on/off the table or vertical prop.. After each firearm came to it's final and in this discussion, safe resting place, then a si of relief could be given..

[Harvey Mushman]

This proposal will not reduce the unintentional behaviour of those who occasionally do this in the heat of competition (I have twice, both times when pistol was empty). I have paid a lot more attention to it, since - it is now ingrained in my mental competition checklist as I complete pistol strings.

 

However, this proposal could allow/encourage some folks to pay less attention to the hammer down after firing, and more importantly, awareness of when they have cocked it. This IS human nature, and it WILL lead to MORE circumstances where it may happen. On the occasion that there is still an unfired round in the chamber, we will all be less safe.

 

Do not change the rule.

 

Harvey

It's just human nature. If

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Edited...lead to some confusion on those that think that this "Pistol" proposal makes some sense...which it doesn't.

 

Phantom

[Most Wanted]

um...the rule has already been changed...you should know this by the fact that you've been posting on the Expeditor thread.

 

Phantom

 

This is a post about a possible change of a pistol rule which by the looks of things would have a hard time passing . I used the new rifle rule as a line of comparison . I don't understand your post . "been posting" I asked a question and thanked PWB for an answer about whats the call if an expeditor touches the rifle in question . I would like to know what you think about this rule change . Agree or disagree thats fine, all that matters is that you have an opinion on the subject . Thanks