Marshal Chance Morgun Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 1) I just dropped a loaded gun. I'm done for the day. I'm going to be extra careful next time. 2) I just dropped a loaded gun. I still get to shot. I guess dropping a loaded gun it's that big a deal. No need to be careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I hate when legal stuff is brought into these threads. AO Bullet goes where it ain't supposed to, legal issues can arise real quick like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I dropped 2 loaded guns (slid out of holsters while I was on the floor) on the first stage of a local match. I was done for the day, put up guns and gear and was TO the rest of the day. Beware of wet floors and non grip enhancing soles. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunblade SASS #10206 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I agree with the "done for the day" rule insofar as it applies to continuing to shoot in the match after a gun is dropped. And I also believe it is admirable to man up and help out with other duties if one gets DQed for such an offense, in spite of any embarrasment. But, if the shooter decides to withdraw from the match and go over to another part of the range which is not being used by the club and continue shooting his guns, then I think that is his right and no one should presume to decide that he has to "put his guns away and go home." That said, if the presence of that shooter poses a threat in some way to other patrons of the range who are also not involved in the cowboy match, then it would be proper to address that situation with a range official who is in charge of the entire range and they can decide if the shooter should be required to physically leave the premises. If I drop my pistol in a CAS match I expect to be match DQed...that's the rule. But if I decide to go over a couple bays and continue shooting rather than hang around and pick up brass, or go home, that's my business isn't it? This is presuming of course that the CAS club does not own the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I agree with the "done for the day" rule insofar as it applies to continuing to shoot in the match after a gun is dropped. And I also believe it is admirable to man up and help out with other duties if one gets DQed for such an offense, in spite of any embarrasment. But, if the shooter decides to withdraw from the match and go over to another part of the range which is not being used by the club and continue shooting his guns, then I think that is his right and no one should presume to decide that he has to "put his guns away and go home." That said, if the presence of that shooter poses a threat in some way to other patrons of the range who are also not involved in the cowboy match, then it would be proper to address that situation with a range official who is in charge of the entire range and they can decide if the shooter should be required to physically leave the premises. If I drop my pistol in a CAS match I expect to be match DQed...that's the rule. But if I decide to go over a couple bays and continue shooting rather than hang around and pick up brass, or go home, that's my business isn't it? This is presuming of course that the CAS club does not own the range. Sure, it also shows what a good sport you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Enuff Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 If the club wants to let someone continue, that's great! I wasn't implying otherwise. Just making it clear that if the call stands to put the guns away for the day, don't be grumpy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I agree with the "done for the day" rule... But if I decide to go over a couple bays and continue shooting rather than hang around and pick up brass, or go home, that's my business isn't it? This is presuming of course that the CAS club does not own the range. Yes, it is your business, but it shows poor form in my opinion. Most people put their stuff up and come back and work the unloading table, or spot, or whatever they are capable of. Some huff up and go home. Guess who the posse appreciates? I was at the NW Regionals when a poor guy had his loaded pistol snag on a doorway and hit the ground on stage 4. He not only put his stuff up and came back and ran the timer, but he showed up the next day and ran the timer all day. That guy showed class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 If the club wants to let someone continue, that's great! I wasn't implying otherwise. Just making it clear that if the call stands to put the guns away for the day, don't be grumpy. +100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunblade SASS #10206 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Sure, it also shows what a good sport you are. If someone drops a gun and gets match DQed, and they are genuinely humbled by their mistake but just decide to go home and think about it, would they automatically be branded a poor sport? If someone drops a gun and gets match DQed, and they are genuinely humbled by their mistake, but they decide to go over to another range and practice some more by themselves, would they then become a poor sport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Poor sport, perhaps not, but if they move over to another shooting bay and leave their posse shorthanded they've given a pretty clear indication that they're primarily interested in shooting, and not much interested in visiting with and helping their pards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 If someone drops a gun and gets match DQed, and they are genuinely humbled by their mistake but just decide to go home and think about it, would they automatically be branded a poor sport? If someone drops a gun and gets match DQed, and they are genuinely humbled by their mistake, but they decide to go over to another range and practice some more by themselves, would they then become a poor sport? Not in my books. Those would be two perfectly acceptable courses of action. I have had two SDQs in 17 years. Still dreading my first MDQ. If it happens so be it. If I get too feeble to shoot or die in my sleep with it never happening is my preference. BUT if I ever get a matchDQ in addition to taking off my guns you best believe my brass shagger is goin' in the cart too. Oh I will hang around and palaver (even tho I am not fond of that tribe I call The Palaverin' People who seem to think their onliest posse duty is to palaver and palaver only period), but if I ain't shootin' I durn shure ain't shaggin' no brass. I shag brass at every match except for lost brass matches and those are getting fewer and furthur between. The ULTO is a hard slot to crowd into usually claimed by a coupla pards bless 'em who consider it their birthright or something. Never seen a match yet in 17 years yet with an LTO. We just do not have such a critter around these parts. They do not let me be TO. I will not start without a headcount of 3 designated spotters etc etc and such strictness is not appreciated. So that reduces me to sitting on the bench and being a spotter and peanut gallery of one. If someone thinks less of me for not continuing to shag brass they have no idea how little I care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 If someone drops a gun and gets match DQed, and they are genuinely humbled by their mistake but just decide to go home and think about it, would they automatically be branded a poor sport? If someone drops a gun and gets match DQed, and they are genuinely humbled by their mistake, but they decide to go over to another range and practice some more by themselves, would they then become a poor sport? Maybe. It depends on many things, like how helpful that person is and their attitude on a general basis. I second what Captain Bill Burt wrote. I know one adorable young lady who got a MDQ and was so upset at her own stupidity, it took her a while to compose herself. Then she was back to help keep score, count...whatever was needed. Another friend of mine dropped an unloaded gun on his first stage. He too was upset with himself and was tempted to leave. We talked a while about it and he decided to stay. After the match, he thanked me for talking him into staying. Everyone else I know of who dropped a gun or got a MDQ, stayed and helped the posse. Think and do what you want. It's your business whether you care what people think of you or not. Just be aware that leaving or shooting on another berm won't enhance your being perceived as a good sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 My goodness....this is a severe safety violation rule - an MDQ!!.....why not enforce it??.... GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunblade SASS #10206 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Poor sport, perhaps not, but if they move over to another shooting bay and leave their posse shorthanded they've given a pretty clear indication that they're primarily interested in shooting, and not much interested in visiting with and helping their pards. That makes sense. It obviously has a lot to do with one's attitude. I was just struck by the notion that one man could presume to tell another that he had to pack up and "go home." I would have a problem with that, guilty or not. If this happened to me I would clear and stow my guns and cease shooting in the match...that is the rule. But I will decide when to leave on my own, thank you very much. Perhaps it is just a figure of speech and I am over reacting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I can't argue with that, I can't imagine telling someone to go home in that situation, and I would feel bad telling them to stop shooting, but I would. I would hope they would stick around and shake it off. For my only MDQ, circumstances dictated that I leave, but I sure didn't want to, and I felt pretty uncomfortable at my next match, but I got over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I can't argue with that, I can't imagine telling someone to go home in that situation, and I would feel bad telling them to stop shooting, but I would. I would hope they would stick around and shake it off. For my only MDQ, circumstances dictated that I leave, but I sure didn't want to, and I felt pretty uncomfortable at my next match, but I got over it. CBB, I don't know many people who like to make the hard calls, but it has to be done to be fair to everyone, and to provide a safe atmosphere to enjoy our game. You know that. Now if it was me timing you, I'd give you a MDQ and laugh about it for you being a Bama fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I don't think it's up to me or anyone else what someone should do after a MDQ or to be judgmental of someone elses decision. I certainly don't think it's appropriate to go back to the posse and run the timer for the rest of the day. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 CBB, I don't know many people who like to make the hard calls, but it has to be done to be fair to everyone, and to provide a safe atmosphere to enjoy our game. You know that. Now if it was me timing you, I'd give you a MDQ and laugh about it for you being a Bama fan. I guess when you're a Sooner fan you gotta find enjoyment wherever you can cause you're not likely to find it towards the end of the first week in January. LOL! I don't think it's up to me or anyone else what someone should do after a MDQ or to be judgmental of someone elses decision. I certainly don't think it's appropriate to go back to the posse and run the timer for the rest of the day. Fillmore Why not stick around and help out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I don't think it's up to me or anyone else what someone should do after a MDQ or to be judgmental of someone elses decision. I certainly don't think it's appropriate to go back to the posse and run the timer for the rest of the day. Fillmore Surely you jest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 3 pages on a rule that's as clear as any in the book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Surely you jest! About what? Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Mushman Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 CBB, I don't know many people who like to make the hard calls, but it has to be done to be fair to everyone, and to provide a safe atmosphere to enjoy our game. You know that. Now if it was me timing you, I'd give you a MDQ and laugh about it for you being a Bama fan. Okie,I agree on making the hard calls, and that it MUST be done, especially for valid safety rules. I have found that making those safety rules the ones that are most "rigid" makes it easier for me. They should be enforced whether it is a monthly or EOT. If ya start bending them, you may hurt someone as well as the organization, and you send a message to ANYONE who observes it that it is not a serious rule - that has implications that multiply as those observers go on to shoot elsewhere. I have been a national level motor sports race director and referee for years and have seen the ugly consequences, including injury and legal action. Same thing applies to professional aviation and I saw it there, also. I don't think it's up to me or anyone else what someone should do after a MDQ or to be judgmental of someone elses decision. I certainly don't think it's appropriate to go back to the posse and run the timer for the rest of the day. Fillmore Fillmore, I would agree with your last sentence if the shooter was negligent, protested or had exhibited a cavalier attitude to safety and the rules. However, if it were any shooter who was known for safety, excellence and experienced as an RO/TO (and they immediately accepted the MDQ, as most would), then I do not see a problem with him/her acting as RO/TO, spotter or any other position? Harvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I certainly don't think it's appropriate to go back to the posse and run the timer for the rest of the day. Fillmore Why NOT?? LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I certainly don't think it's appropriate to go back to the posse and run the timer for the rest of the day. Fillmore Why NOT?? LG I don't think ANYONE should run the timer for an extended period of time. It can lead to "fatigue" and mistakes on the TO's part. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 OK- That makes 'cents'. Kinda sounded at first, like you didn't want the MDQ'd shooter around......... THX, LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 +100. We have one of the friendliest, happy clubs in our area and if you drop a loaded gun, you are finished for the day. No shooting for no score, no practice on unused stages. You are expected to help with the posse duties. One thing that has been overlooked is the mental state of the dropee. Most folks will be rather upset when this happens and probably in a very poor mental state to be handling guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawknose Bill Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I agree, Utah Bob. We all need to think about the signals we're sending to the newcomer and the spectator. If I were simply watching, trying to decide whether or not this CAS thing was for me, it would be noticed how an unsafe act was dealt with. It could make the difference in a person's decision - either to try a different club or not to get involved at all. In today's climate, we have to make sure that our reputation is squeaky clean. Unsafe actions cannot be left undealt with. Besides, as a shooter, I would be embarrassed as heck, yes. But I would need the time away from the line to regroup, rethink and get it together. It would also show those in attndance that a tight ship is being run. My $.02... -Hawknose Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Shadow Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Scenario: 1st stage of 6 stage match Infraction- Shooter drops loaded firearm at loading table Penalty- MDQ Result- Shooter puts guns away and shags brass the rest of the day. Sum- (for most the Wire shooters) 90 second penalty (closer to 6 minutes for me). Just a thought, since this has gone on for 3 pages. No opinion, just for discussion among yourselves. Really, I wish it would stop snowing. SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Scenario: 1st stage of 6 stage match Infraction- Shooter drops loaded firearm at loading table Penalty- MDQ Result- Shooter puts guns away and shags brass the rest of the day. Sum- (for most the Wire shooters) 90 second penalty (closer to 6 minutes for me). Just a thought, since this has gone on for 3 pages. No opinion, just for discussion among yourselves. Really, I wish it would stop snowing. SS Hi SS, I don't get it. What does this mean? Regards, AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Shadow Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Hi SS, I don't get it. What does this mean? Regards, AM Hi Allie, Really doesn't mean much, just an observation. A MDQ at the beginning of the day, for all of you that spend about 15 seconds a stage actually shooting, really only results in a 90 second penalty for the day for those who stick around and enjoy the bulk of what keeps us coming out to shoots. (the people) I realize there is more to it than that, but like I said, I really don't have a point, just a thought for discussion. To paraphrase a saying I've seen here a few times after three pages of winter time discussion: "Drop a loaded gun- put them away - next shooter" SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordyce Beals Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Boon doggle has it correct! Fordyce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Texican Bounty Hunter Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Hi Allie, Really doesn't mean much, just an observation. A MDQ at the beginning of the day, for all of you that spend about 15 seconds a stage actually shooting, really only results in a 90 second penalty for the day for those who stick around and enjoy the bulk of what keeps us coming out to shoots. (the people) I realize there is more to it than that, but like I said, I really don't have a point, just a thought for discussion. To paraphrase a saying I've seen here a few times after three pages of winter time discussion: "Drop a loaded gun- put them away - next shooter" SS 15 second stages....i wish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Wagner Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 MDQ = Done for the Day. I agree. No shooting. A better way to end the day would be to do the spotting, RO duties. That's always what I have seen. No one continued to shoot, or just plain left. Cherokee Slim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throckmorton,23149 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 At a large match a RO on the shoot thru day slipped on wet ground. A loaded pistol fell on the ground. It was not an unsafe act. He received a MDQ, but, was allowed to continue to shoot the match. This is a top shooter that has always been safe. The MD had no problem letting him continue. A loaded pistol hitting the grround IS an unsafe act,and it was a bad deciion to allow the shooter to continue shooting. ! top shooter or not,he got special privelages . If we start picking and choosing who to DQ and who is 'too good or too safe to DQ', we might as well throw the rule out. and in that case I want my Regional match fee back from my 1st stage MDQ from 18 years ago. To the orginal question,you are done shooting ,hang em up and stick around to help out. and if it's a multi-day match,you are done fore the entire match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diablo slim Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Thanks to all who responded ..it has been enlightning to read everyones responce. Now I just wonder if I had been the one to drop a gun whether I would have been given the same consideration or not....... P.S. I had gone to see a man about a horse when this poll was taken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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