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Another "you make the call"...


McCandless

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Taken from real-life...

Stage is written:

1st pistol at station one

2 shotgun targets at station 1

2nd pistol at station 2

2 shotgun targets at station 2

rifle at station 3

2 shotgun targets at station 3

 

After engaging pistol targets and holstering at station 1, shooter fires 1 shotgun round ( a hit) and then the shotgun breaks, and becomes a giant paperweight. Shooter declares a malfunction, grounds shotgun as per RO's instructions, shoots the rest of the stage without engaging shotgun targets, no rifle or pistol misses.

 

Calls predictably range from:

"5 misses", to

"5 misses and a P", to

"5 misses and a failure to engage", to

"5 misses a P and a failure to engage."

 

Not a great stage to have at a major match, no matter which way.

 

Since the shooter was/is a slow, somewhat hobbled, overweight, Frontiersman :blush: No matter what the call, he's still gonna end up on the last page of the score sheet.

 

Anyways,

How would you call it...

McC

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Five misses (unfired rounds).

Misses cannot cause a "P".

"Failure to engage" only applies to NON-shooting situations.

"Spirit of the Game" wouldn't apply either...

(unless the shooter broke his shotgun ON PURPOSE and there is some advantage to taking 25 seconds in penalties)

 

Suggest sending the RO's (and any shooters who came up with something other than 5 misses) back to "school".

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Could another shooter have handed the shooter in question his shotgun to use ?

 

thanks,

Train Robber

 

Nope, the shooter is pretty much on their own after the clock. For example, the rules say that if the shooter forgot their shotgun shells, it is illegal for the timer (or anyone else) to give shotgun shells to the shooter.

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Could another shooter have handed the shooter in question his shotgun to use ?

 

thanks,

Train Robber

 

There is a rule that someone can not hand the shooter ammo, following the same logic I would say no, another shooter could not hand him a shotgun. Under the clock, on the firing line is not the time to be quicking handing off guns in my opinion.

 

I had my shotgun fall apart on me before a 4 shotgun target string to finish up a stage at a regional, my choices were to try and put the shotgun together and finish the string, or take the four misses. I threw my hands in the air and said "I'm done" Now that I am more experienced, both with CAS and that shotgun, I might try to put it back together and finish up just out of stubbornness, doubt it would change the time much though.

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Taken from real-life...

Stage is written:

1st pistol at station one

2 shotgun targets at station 1

2nd pistol at station 2

2 shotgun targets at station 2

rifle at station 3

2 shotgun targets at station 3

 

After engaging pistol targets and holstering at station 1, shooter fires 1 shotgun round ( a hit) and then the shotgun breaks, and becomes a giant paperweight. Shooter declares a malfunction, grounds shotgun as per RO's instructions, shoots the rest of the stage without engaging shotgun targets, no rifle or pistol misses.

 

Calls predictably range from:

"5 misses", to

"5 misses and a P", to

"5 misses and a failure to engage", to

"5 misses a P and a failure to engage."

 

Not a great stage to have at a major match, no matter which way.

 

Since the shooter was/is a slow, somewhat hobbled, overweight, Frontiersman :blush: No matter what the call, he's still gonna end up on the last page of the score sheet.

 

Anyways,

How would you call it...

McC

 

 

 

5 misses only.

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I once had 5 misses and they called me a Gigolo! :o

 

 

Frankly, I resembled that remark. :lol::lol::lol:

 

 

..........Widder

 

You must have some dough. 5 misses would be mighty expensive, even just to accumulate, not to mention keep!

 

As for the stage, 5 misses, as PWB explained.

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Shooter ended up with 5 misses and a P. Which, since his day had just turned to crap, he decided wasn't worth the effort of arguing over at a higher level.

 

McC

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Shooter ended up with 5 misses and a P. Which, since his day had just turned to crap, he decided wasn't worth the effort of arguing over at a higher level.

...

 

I would strongly advise that the shooter bring this thread to the attention of those who made the MIScall on this one...otherwise "they" will likely continue in their erroneous ways.

Do the 'next shooter' a favor.

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There is a rule that someone can not hand the shooter ammo, following the same logic I would say no, another shooter could not hand him a shotgun. Under the clock, on the firing line is not the time to be quicking handing off guns in my opinion.

 

I had my shotgun fall apart on me before a 4 shotgun target string to finish up a stage at a regional, my choices were to try and put the shotgun together and finish the string, or take the four misses. I threw my hands in the air and said "I'm done" Now that I am more experienced, both with CAS and that shotgun, I might try to put it back together and finish up just out of stubbornness, doubt it would change the time much though.

 

Sometimes I still try to work with the "broken" gun, but usually figure it may not be safe to do so. So unless it is obvious and simple, I set it down. If I jam my rifle with a lot in it, I may mess with it for a few seconds.

 

But if the gun "falls apart" as some shotguns do, I figure it isn't worth the risk to shoot it without a full inspection.

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Shotgun was a Stoeger that chose that time to part ways with it's pivot lug.

 

P was given for the usual mis-applied "failure to engage targets in the proper order."

 

This match is not one I usually attend. It did not have "berm marshals" or a real strong "posse marshal." Both would have helped tremendously.

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The problem is bring shooting penalty terms from other shooting sports and applying them to SASS.

 

Failure to engage in SASS "Does NOT Apply" to shooting at targets.

 

Quoting Pale Wolf Brunelle. "Failure to engage" only applies to NON-shooting situations.

------------

Oh and I would call, 5 misses.

-----------=

As for handing ammunition or another gun to the shooter. Once the buzzer goes off the shooter will get through the stage the best they can on their own.

Clarification. Coaching is allowed.

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A few ROs, a few spotters, a few shooters, a very few match directors, a few posse marshals just want to give shooters any penalties they can get by dishing out whether backed solidly by the rules or not. They just hate to see a shooter shoot a stage or match clean and whenever possible dish out the maximum penalties they can dream up. You only have to look at some "you make the calls" threads to see the philosophy. If anyone complains they are made to feel an outcast and these clubs seem to not be visitor friendly. I only make the mistake of shooting at these clubs once. Maybe we could help the sport to weed out these individuals and clubs by publishing a list of these folks and clubs. Could be downright exciting.

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Ah hell, I'd give the guy a SOG penalty on top of a P, 5 misses...some kind of failure to have a working gun penalty...and a MSV just for the hell of it....oh, and then push his sorry butt down and kick dirt in his/her face.

 

:wacko:

 

It's truly amazing that there are folks out there that just don't know squat about the rules...so they act like the do and award random penalties.

 

Grrrrrrrr...

 

<_<

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Ah hell, I'd give the guy a SOG penalty on top of a P, 5 misses...some kind of failure to have a working gun penalty...and a MSV just for the hell of it....oh, and then push his sorry butt down and kick dirt in his/her face.

 

:wacko:

 

It's truly amazing that there are folks out there that just don't know squat about the rules...so they act like the do and award random penalties.

 

Grrrrrrrr...

 

<_<

 

You forgot to tar and feather him and then run him out town on the rails :lol: :lol:

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