Spotters

[Matthew Duncan]

How do you count misses?

[Smithy]

Pretty much like what has been posted prior to this. If I don't see the target move, I don't hear a clang, but I DO see a puff of dirt kick up to the side of the target (an "Oh s&!&") from the shooter is usually a tell tell sign as well. Then it's a miss. Anything else (or doubt enters in) then the benefit goes to the shooter and a hit is scored. Smithy.

[Dog Ears Wilson, SASS #77948]

With my fingers.

[Blastmaster]

I don't!!

 

I hold up a finger for each miss and the TO has to do the counting.

[Cope Daniels]

Pretty much like what has been posted prior to this. If I don't see the target move, I don't hear a clang, but I DO see a puff of dirt kick up to the side of the target (an "Oh s&!&") from the shooter is usually a tell tell sign as well. Then it's a miss. Anything else (or doubt enters in) then the benefit goes to the shooter and a hit is scored. Smithy.

 

(an "Oh s&!&")

That is the best way to count a miss LOL

[Wyatt]

One, Two, Three, Four

 

If it's another GF it's.....Two, Four, Six, Eight

 

Wyatt

[Oklahomabound]

I track misses on my right hand with fingers extended. I count/track rounds fired in my mind.

[Iron Pony]

We need to get someone to video Piney Woods' spotter instructions when he is running a posse or a match. It's comprehensive and to the point that spotting is real important so take the task seriously, do it independantly of the other spotters. When I'm spotting and someone misses I like to keep my hands behind my back, counting misses on one and the other for possible procedurals.

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

As a black powder shooter we dislike people who listen for clangs or watch for target movement. Spotters need to be off to the side of the targets with a clear view, watch the wind and stand on the side of the wind its coming from if you can so you can see the targets better. Watch for the round to hit the target if you can. Shooting cap & balls with close pistol targets is the worst. The big boom hides the clang sound and so does soft lead on a dead target. And the smoke hides the movement of the target. I have had misses called on me when I knew I hit the target.

 

I'm just saying, see the hit.

 

Ike

[Madd Mike #8595]

the best I can

and hope others do the same

[Sage Creek Gus SASS #64320]

Pretty much like what has been posted prior to this. If I don't see the target move, I don't hear a clang, but I DO see a puff of dirt kick up to the side of the target (an "Oh s&!&") from the shooter is usually a tell tell sign as well. Then it's a miss. Anything else (or doubt enters in) then the benefit goes to the shooter and a hit is scored. Smithy.

 

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment.

 

Lets say you don't hear a clang, don't see target movement and don't see a puff of dirt so the benefit of the doubt goes to the shooter and it's counted as a hit.

 

This means you could shoot blanks and all shots could be counted as hits.

 

Sage Creek Gus

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

I try to see hits. (as evidence of "no miss")

I try to hear hits. (as evidence of "no miss")

I try to see targets wiggle.(as evidence of "no miss")

I look for misses as they splash in the dirt. (as evidence of a miss)

My criteria is "did I see a miss?" If not, it's a hit.

I give MY honest observation by raising fingers to show the count I saw.

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

As if I was an intelligent gambler:

I get paid $2 for an accurately called hit.

I get paid $2 for an accurately called miss.

I costs me $4 for a miss that I call as a hit.

I costs me $50 for a hit that I call as a miss.

 

If I’m left wondering, I might lose the $4, but I’ll NEVER lose the $50. I owe it to every shooter (not just the one shooting) to be as accurate as possible, but when there is doubt, the shooter gets the benefit of that doubt.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

I try to see hits. (as evidence of "no miss")

I try to hear hits. (as evidence of "no miss")

I try to see targets wiggle.(as evidence of "no miss")

I look for misses as they splash in the dirt. (as evidence of a miss)

My criteria is "did I see a miss?" If not, it's a hit.

I give MY honest observation by raising fingers to show the count I saw.

Ta Daaaa!!

 

Jefro

[Grizzly Dave]

With my fingers.

 

 

the best I can

and hope others do the same

[Marshal Stone, SASS #53366]

I'm With AJ and Jefro.

 

Marshal Stone

[BLACKFOOT SASS #11947]

I count one miss for each target not hit

 

Blackfoot

[Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663]

If I know it's a miss, I extend a finger. At the same time, I'm counting rounds fired, watching the procedure, and vigilant about safety. After the shooter has completed the stage, shot the correct number of rounds, in the proper order as called for in the stage instruction, I hold up my fist, hopefully without any fingers extended, and yell "Hee-Yaw! Good shooting Cowboy/Cowgirl!"

 

Is there any other way of doing it???

[Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363]

I stand to the side and follow along with the target sequence. With BP or light loads a clang is not always audible (especially with good earplugs) so I look for target movement.

Geysers in the dust aren't a good indicator - lead splatter can throw up a good little cloud, sometimes directly below the target, sometimes to the side.

If the targets are freshly painted and there's a dispute, I look for an edge hit. Saved my bacon once, and I'll gladly extend the courtesy to everyone else.

If I have any doubts at all, I call it a hit.

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

Real black powder shooters (not the poof smoke kind) know that none of you guys are spotting for us or we would never have a miss. I spot hits and count misses but will be glad to just work the tables anytime someones feelings are hurt! Sage Creek Gus, some of our loads now days will actually register on target about like a blank. Unless the berm and ground are sliding sand you will not reliably get the feed back on most misses at many ranges. Based on this post I would say its past time to go with cap guns and call all matches clean.

[Sage Creek Gus SASS #64320]

Real black powder shooters (not the poof smoke kind) know that none of you guys are spotting for us or we would never have a miss. I spot hits and count misses but will be glad to just work the tables anytime someones feelings are hurt! Sage Creek Gus, some of our loads now days will actually register on target about like a blank. Unless the berm and ground are sliding sand you will not reliably get the feed back on most misses at many ranges. Based on this post I would say its past time to go with cap guns and call all matches clean.

 

We have a shooter who shoots VERY light loads in his handguns. You can hardly hear them go off. They don't make a clang and don't move the target at all. He's very fast and it's very hard to score his hits and misses. His bullets don't splatter when they hit but just flatten out a little and fall to the ground. Unless it's very dusty you can't see misses hit the ground either.

 

There's always a big discrepancy in the miss count when he shoots.

 

He only shoots the stages that have only stationary targets. He doesn't shoot the stages with any KD targets or such things as a Texas Star

 

Sage Creek

[Matthew Duncan]

I don't!!

 

I hold up a finger for each miss and the TO has to do the counting.

 

 

Yep. That's how I do it too.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

We have a shooter who shoots VERY light loads in his handguns. You can hardly hear them go off. They don't make a clang and don't move the target at all. He's very fast and it's very hard to score his hits and misses. His bullets don't splatter when they hit but just flatten out a little and fall to the ground. Unless it's very dusty you can't see misses hit the ground either.

 

There's always a big discrepancy in the miss count when he shoots.

 

He only shoots the stages that have only stationary targets. He doesn't shoot the stages with any KD targets or such things as a Texas Star

 

Sage Creek

 

 

That kind of shooter is almost impossible to spot for and give an accurate count. I reckon he deserves what gets called. I wonder if his bullets even make the power factor, weak as it is?

 

I give it my full attention and do the best I can to make an accurate call. If it's obvious a shooter did NOT hit a target, it is a miss.

 

Possum

[Anvil Al #59168]

We have a shooter who shoots VERY light loads in his handguns. You can hardly hear them go off. They don't make a clang and don't move the target at all. He's very fast and it's very hard to score his hits and misses. His bullets don't splatter when they hit but just flatten out a little and fall to the ground. Unless it's very dusty you can't see misses hit the ground either.

 

There's always a big discrepancy in the miss count when he shoots.

 

He only shoots the stages that have only stationary targets. He doesn't shoot the stages with any KD targets or such things as a Texas Star

 

Sage Creek

 

 

 

That kind of shooter is almost impossible to spot for and give an accurate count. I reckon he deserves what gets called. I wonder if his bullets even make the power factor, weak as it is?

 

I give it my full attention and do the best I can to make an accurate call. If it's obvious a shooter did NOT hit a target, it is a miss.

 

Possum

 

+1

Was thinking about the Power Factor also.

I am not for checking up of folks much. Live and let live. As long as they are within the rules.

But maybe just have a day and check power factors.

[Uno Mas SASS #80082]

.

I frickin' HATE "edgers".

 

I helped ruin a woman's clean yearly match: Another spotter and I didn't hear a clang, didn't see movement, and saw a puff of dirt downrange. The third spotter and the shooter called it a hit. TO properly went with the majority of spotters.

 

Later, when painting the target, we found a think pencil line of lead exactly where the shooter claimed to have hit. Shiite. We tried to have our call reversed -- but no dice.

 

She still growls (nicely) when she sees me.

[Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363]

We have a shooter who shoots VERY light loads in his handguns. You can hardly hear them go off. They don't make a clang and don't move the target at all. He's very fast and it's very hard to score his hits and misses. His bullets don't splatter when they hit but just flatten out a little and fall to the ground. Unless it's very dusty you can't see misses hit the ground either.

 

There's always a big discrepancy in the miss count when he shoots.

 

He only shoots the stages that have only stationary targets. He doesn't shoot the stages with any KD targets or such things as a Texas Star

 

Sage Creek

 

Unless this shooter has crippling arthritis or some other severe physical limitation and can't handle recoil, shooting what sounds like Gallery 22 BB Caps and being selective as to what stages he wants to shoot isn't exactly living up to The Spririt Of The Game.

 

SPIRIT OF THE GAME

As the game of Cowboy Action Shooting™ has evolved, our members have developed and adopted an attitude towards their participation we call “The Spirit of the Game.”

Competing in The Spirit of the Game means you fully participate in what the competition asks. You do not look for ways to create an advantage out of what is or is not stated as a rule or shooting procedure. Some folks would call The Spirit of the Game nothing more than good sportsmanship. Whatever you call it, if you don’t have it, Cowboy Action Shooting™ is not your game.

[Dirty Redd]

I went to classes at the I.B.S (International Brotherhood of Spotter's). LOL

[el Gato Gordo - SASS #15162]

Exactly how I would want hits/misses counted for me: as accurately as possible, with the benefit of the doubt going to the shooter, and a sharp eye for edge hits and any movement of the target.

 

If I am not certain it was a miss, it was a hit.

 

Buena suerte,

eGG

[Blastmaster]

.

I frickin' HATE "edgers".

 

I helped ruin a woman's clean yearly match: Another spotter and I didn't hear a clang, didn't see movement, and saw a puff of dirt downrange. The third spotter and the shooter called it a hit. TO properly went with the majority of spotters.

 

Later, when painting the target, we found a think pencil line of lead exactly where the shooter claimed to have hit. Shiite. We tried to have our call reversed -- but no dice.

 

She still growls (nicely) when she sees me.

 

Ya know, if the Shooter really wanted to take all doubt away of the shot being a hit..... then they would hit the target dead center and not paint the edge. Those edgers are buggers.

[long tall texan]

I stand where I can see all the targets without moving.

 

If it's a BP shooter, I get in a spot where the wind will blow the smoke away from my clear vision of the target,or if there's no wind I'm off to the side far enough that I can see the targets unobscured.

 

I am visually at each target before the shooter is.

 

Each target gets my absolute attention and my sharpest vision, and I don't blink during the shooter's string.

 

I'm the guy who sees the edge hits.

 

The miss finger goes out without any hesitation, because I'm concentrating on the next target, especially with a fast shooter.

[Sage Creek Gus SASS #64320]

Unless this shooter has crippling arthritis or some other severe physical limitation and can't handle recoil, shooting what sounds like Gallery 22 BB Caps and being selective as to what stages he wants to shoot isn't exactly living up to The Spririt Of The Game.

 

SPIRIT OF THE GAME

As the game of Cowboy Action Shooting™ has evolved, our members have developed and adopted an attitude towards their participation we call “The Spirit of the Game.”

Competing in The Spirit of the Game means you fully participate in what the competition asks. You do not look for ways to create an advantage out of what is or is not stated as a rule or shooting procedure. Some folks would call The Spirit of the Game nothing more than good sportsmanship. Whatever you call it, if you don’t have it, Cowboy Action Shooting™ is not your game.

 

He's a retired Physician. I'm not too concerned about his scores as he gets what he does based upon how he decides to shoot the match. My concern is with the people spotting most of which are trying to do an accurate job of spotting. Many times after he shoots the spotters will have puzzled looks on their faces and sometimes look at me with a questioning look on their faces. I just tell them to do their best. If two spotters have the same number we use that for a score and if all three have different numbers we use the middle one.

 

 

 

This shooter is fine in other ways, willing to take on other jobs etc.

 

I do find it interesting however that if the official SASS guidelines are followed for scoring a hit or miss that shooting blanks would result in all hits.

 

By the way, would someone please help me find in the handbooks where it says that if you don't hear a clang, don't see any target movement and don't see any dust kick up anywhere you assume it is a hit. I've done a search on all the PDF handbooks for the word "miss" and read what's there and can't locate it.

 

SCG

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

Do we really have to have to have everything spelled out for us in fine detail, particularly when we are given guidelines to apply to the entire game? I did a search for the word “doubt” and here is what I found:

 

Page 7 of ROII regarding Range Officer Attitude, item 10: Always give the contestant the benefit of doubt.

 

Page 8 of the ROII regarding Spotters (HELLO!), item E: Always give the shooter the benefit of any doubt.

 

Page 24 of the ROII regarding the 10 “Commandments,” third item: Use common sense.

 

Page 24 of the ROII regarding the 10 “Commandments,” fourth item: The benefit of the doubt goes to the shooter.

 

How many times do we have to be told that the benefit of ANY doubt goes to the shooter? Is three times not enough? Based upon what I have read here from most, I don’t seem to be alone in stating the theme for how we play this game. Essentially, we operate by the The Golden Rule. In fact, it is the fifth item of the 10 “Commandments”: Treat everyone as you would like to be treated. We call it The Cowboy Way.