Byrna non lethal gun

[Rye Miles #13621]

https://byrna.com

 

Have you heard of this? My question is how long does the CO2 cartridge last? I have a Colt SAA BB gun made by Numarex and it takes a CO 2 cartrdge. That cartrdige doesn't last very long. Maybe a couple weeks whether I shoot it or not. If you're carrying one of these Byrnas will you depend on the CO2 cartridge let alone the projectile itself? Interesting alternative for carrying a real firearm though. 

[Alpo]

The whole idea of non-lethal or less lethal is stupid.

 

If I have a legitimate reason to shoot you, I have a legitimate reason to kill you. Shooting you with a pepper spray ball or something that "hurts" but doesn't cause any damage. That's stupid. Plus you're going to sue me afterwards.

 

"Pastor's life was saved with Byrna." Gun would have worked just as well if not better.

 

"Special Forces veteran protects wife with Byrna." 12 gauge would have worked also. And for a lot less than $900.

 

That's why I would never be involved in one of those fake gunfight things like they have at old west ghost towns. Or play paintball or airsoft. Because if I point a gun at you, and pull the trigger, you need to fall down and bleed. You need to die. If you didn't need to die, I didn't need to point the gun at you and pull the trigger.

[Eyesa Horg]

If I need to use lethal force, I want it to be lethal right now.

[Subdeacon Joe]

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

https://byrna.com

 

Have you heard of this? My question is how long does the CO2 cartridge last? I have a Colt SAA BB gun made by Numarex and it takes a CO 2 cartrdge. That cartrdige doesn't last very long. Maybe a couple weeks whether I shoot it or not. If you're carrying one of these Byrnas will you depend on the CO2 cartridge let alone the projectile itself? Interesting alternative for carrying a real firearm though. 

 

Per the bot on their website:

 

 

 

 

says:I get one. I put in the CO2 cartridge. I don't shoot it. How long before the CO2 bleeds out?

 

 

Byrna Bot

 

Byrna Bot says:It sounds like you're curious about the CO2 cartridge. Byrna CO2 cartridges have a virtually indefinite shelf life. The Byrna incorporates puncture technology to allow it to fire on the first trigger pull. The cartridge is not pierced until the trigger is pulled so you can always keep an un-punctured CO2 cartridge in your Byrna to maximize its utility for self-defense. We recommend loading a new CO2 cartridge after every sustained use of the Byrna because once the cartridge is punctured CO2 will leak out over a 24-48 hour period. If your launcher uses 8 gram cylinders, we recommend using ONLY Byrna 8 gram cylinders as 8 gram cylinders are not a standard size and many aftermarket 8 gram cylinders WILL NOT function properly. If your launcher uses 12 gram, you can use most standard 12 gram cylinders*. *Byrna does not recommend the use of Crosman brand 12 gram CO2 cylinders in your launcher as they may not puncture correctly.'

[Rye Miles #13621]

32 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Per the bot on their website:

 

 

 

 

says:I get one. I put in the CO2 cartridge. I don't shoot it. How long before the CO2 bleeds out?

 

 

Byrna Bot

 

Byrna Bot says:It sounds like you're curious about the CO2 cartridge. Byrna CO2 cartridges have a virtually indefinite shelf life. The Byrna incorporates puncture technology to allow it to fire on the first trigger pull. The cartridge is not pierced until the trigger is pulled so you can always keep an un-punctured CO2 cartridge in your Byrna to maximize its utility for self-defense. We recommend loading a new CO2 cartridge after every sustained use of the Byrna because once the cartridge is punctured CO2 will leak out over a 24-48 hour period. If your launcher uses 8 gram cylinders, we recommend using ONLY Byrna 8 gram cylinders as 8 gram cylinders are not a standard size and many aftermarket 8 gram cylinders WILL NOT function properly. If your launcher uses 12 gram, you can use most standard 12 gram cylinders*. *Byrna does not recommend the use of Crosman brand 12 gram CO2 cylinders in your launcher as they may not puncture correctly.'

Well I guess I didn’t read  far enough into the website. So they’re saying their cartridges are specially designed for their pistols. Interesting. 

It’s hard to get a CCL win New York, California, Illinois and a few others. This is supposedly legal in all states. 

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

BUT , you will most likely get sued IF were to use it 

 

 or get charged with assault 

 

  maybe BOTH 

 

  CB 

[July Smith]

The man that taught the CC course I took was a LEO, he said civilians had no business using or even carrying non-lethal options.  He said in a self defense case you don't want a prosecuting attorney to ask, "why didn't you just pepper spray them?"  Or in the event you do use a non-lethal, "why didn't you simply leave?"

 

 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

Once again I find myself in agreement with Alpo. If I have to shoot someone, I want them to stop doing whatever they are doing that forced me to shoot them, and I DON'T want them able to come after me at a later date either physically OR legally. And if I shoot, it is because I had no choice but to do so. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

Judge: Mr Miles why was there 6 bullets in this guy that supposedly attacked you?

ME: Your honor the gun only carries 6 rounds snd he stopped moving so I guess I was done! 

[Subdeacon Joe]

2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Well I guess I didn’t read  far enough into the website.

 

That might be in the FAQs, but I asked the Site Bot.  The text in the black box is my question,  which I see has typos in it.

 

That was easier than trying to sift through all the dross.

1 hour ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

Once again I find myself in agreement with Alpo.

 

What an appalling state of affairs!

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

5 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

1 hour ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

Once again I find myself in agreement with Alpo.

 

What an appalling state of affairs!

I know. That's twice in one week, too.

[Buckshot Bear]

Can a felon have one? 

[Subdeacon Joe]

7 minutes ago, Buckshot Bear said:

Can a felon have one? 

 

In most States,  yes.  Exceptions are DE, ID, RI, IL, NJ.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

9 hours ago, Alpo said:

The whole idea of non-lethal or less lethal is stupid.

 

If I have a legitimate reason to shoot you, I have a legitimate reason to kill you. Shooting you with a pepper spray ball or something that "hurts" but doesn't cause any damage. That's stupid. Plus you're going to sue me afterwards.

 

"Pastor's life was saved with Byrna." Gun would have worked just as well if not better.

 

"Special Forces veteran protects wife with Byrna." 12 gauge would have worked also. And for a lot less than $900.

 

That's why I would never be involved in one of those fake gunfight things like they have at old west ghost towns. Or play paintball or airsoft. Because if I point a gun at you, and pull the trigger, you need to fall down and bleed. You need to die. If you didn't need to die, I didn't need to point the gun at you and pull the trigger.

You do have your moments, Amigo.  Once again I have to admit I agree with you 100%.

[Rye Miles #13621]

This is obviously not for us gun folks but people especially some women who can’t handle firearms very well this is an alternative. I think it’s better than pepper spray. No recoil and easy to operate!

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

This is obviously not for us gun folks but people especially some women who can’t handle firearms very well this is an alternative. I think it’s better than pepper spray. No recoil and easy to operate!

Might also be a good way to get crippled or killed.  Why risk it?

[Rip Snorter]

You shoot till the threat no longer exists.  I would not trust an almost gun. After Dad passed, I got Mom a Kimber Pepper Blaster.  She never needed it but kept it near the door. She could shoot, but didn't want a gun.  Her call in what was then a very low risk community.  Different days.

[Texas Joker]

So in a confrontation brandishing a firearm is always a bad idea because it inserts deadly force into the situation.  Most people who carry won't draw until it's time to fire on a threat.

 

Knowing you have a less lethal alternative may encourage brandishing and in the seconds and adrenaline of a conflict there is no time to stop and see if it's a REAL gun they just pointed.

 

How many times do bb guns get people shot? How is this different?

 

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

38 minutes ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

Might also be a good way to get crippled or killed.  Why risk it?

There’s woman and men too that carry pepper spray so what I’m saying is this is a better option. You’ll never talk some people into carrying a real firearm. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

27 minutes ago, Texas Joker said:

So in a confrontation brandishing a firearm is always a bad idea because it inserts deadly force into the situation.  Most people who carry won't draw until it's time to fire on a threat.

 

Knowing you have a less lethal alternative may encourage brandishing and in the seconds and adrenaline of a conflict there is no time to stop and see if it's a REAL gun they just pointed.

 

How many times do bb guns get people shot? How is this different?

 

 

What I’m saying is there are people that carry pepper spray and this is a better option. Good luck talking people that carry pepper spray into carrying a real firearm. 
Only idiots carry a BB gun! 

Edited June 27 by Rye Miles #13621

[Subdeacon Joe]

I can possibly see a very limited utility for something like this.   Maybe. 

 

Environments where a miss or pass through has a high probability of causing death of innocents.  Places like classrooms, theatres, restaurants, etc.   

 

Maybe. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 minute ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

I can possibly see a very limited utility for something like this.   Maybe. 

 

Environments where a miss or pass through has a high probability of causing death of innocents.  Places like classrooms, theatres, restaurants, etc.   

 

Maybe. 

Like I said to Forty and Tex, there are people that carry pepper spray so this is a better option for them. 

[Subdeacon Joe]

16 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Like I said to Forty and Tex, there are people that carry pepper spray so this is a better option for them. 

 

Exactly.   I was typing when you posted those comments.   This is a little more controllable,  and has a little more range than pepper spray. 

[Pb Mark]

That Byrna thing is too big to clip on the dog leash, but Mace Gel works great for renegade attacking dogs.  

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

I fail to understand the hate.

Almost EVERY self defense option is a compromise of some degree.

 

Do we denigrate handgun carriers because someone is not carrying the  "better" choice of an AR-10?

We all know that a 308 semi auto rifle IS, without debate, a more effective man stopper than a 9mm pistol - but we understand the realities of carrying that rifle and accept folks choose "lesser".

 

We all know that .45, 357 mag, 40S&W, 9mm, etc. are all "better" than a 32 auto - but we understand the realities of size, recoil and the physical limitation of some folks and accept that they carry "lesser".

 

Pepper Spray or Tasers are "better" than carrying nothing and simply hoping for the best.  We have to accept the reality that some are going to be unwilling to carry or discharge a firearm upon another human being - the reality is that most are not properly trained or in possession of the appropriate mindset that is required to survive after taking another persons life - the why is immaterial.

 

Stating the use of these lesser forms of defense "are going to get them hurt" is nonsensical - as the threat of them getting hurt is already there and intent on causing harm; at LEAST the presence of some sort of tool gives the potential victim some chance to fight back.

 

Are these forms of defense a first choice?

Of course not - but they are a BETTER choice than having nothing - relying on prayers and hope while whistling thru the graveyard.

[John Kloehr]

My guidance is to stop the threat.

 

Killing the threat is not required, Survival of the threat is not required. Just stop the threat. Choose the best tool to accomplish this goal.

 

9mm is a good recognized minimum to accomplish this goal. Smaller rounds may do so, my concern is not the round but the reliability of the firearm discharging it. Larger rounds may require fewer rounds. Maybe, but still irrelevant. Choose a reliable firearm and purchase rounds which run reliably in it.

 

My current carry does not like any hollow points. So I run ball ammo it in. Goes bang every time. It might be nice for an assailant to get one rather than two, or two rather than three. But I'll stop when the threat ends. Ball ammo may take more rounds than hollow points, but fewer hollow points may do more damage... Or less... Irrelevant. Just stop the threat, and then stop shooting.

[Subdeacon Joe]

43 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

I fail to understand the hate.

Almost EVERY self defense option is a compromise of some degree.

 

I think,  for the most part,  it isn't that it's a less than lethal compromise than that the delivery system looks like the lethal option.   If it looks like a firearm,  it's a firearm.   I don't care about color,  or orange tips on the muzzle,  or any of the other things that are supposed to identify it as This Is Not A Gun.  General outline of the weapon/defense tool and the stance of the person using it scream,  'GUN!' which automatically makes it a lethal confrontation. 

 

 

[Rip Snorter]

A light saber the obvious solution - an elegant weapon from another time. 

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

27 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

I think,  for the most part,  it isn't that it's a less than lethal compromise than that the delivery system looks like the lethal option.   If it looks like a firearm,  it's a firearm.   I don't care about color,  or orange tips on the muzzle,  or any of the other things that are supposed to identify it as This Is Not A Gun.  General outline of the weapon/defense tool and the stance of the person using it scream,  'GUN!' which automatically makes it a lethal confrontation. 

 

 

I'm confused - are you suggesting that an attacker, having already made the decision to attempt to rob, harm, rape or kill their victim...

Somehow becomes "more" of a threat because they may think their victim has a firearm?

 

I doubt they would be any more gentle or considerate if the victim were unarmed or their pepperspray is pink and shaped like a unicorn.

 

The single MOST important consideration is that the person intent on causing harm "Stops" - It is estimated that confrontations are terminated by the mere presence of a firearm vs the discharge of a firearm at nearly a 4 to 1 ratio.

IF the attacker believes it is a lethal tool - that belief alone may stop the confrontation - if the attacker continues their aggression; I don't believe the victim is any worse off for the shape of their chosen defense.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

41 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

A light saber the obvious solution - an elegant weapon from another time. 

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

55 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

I'm confused

 

Intentionally so, I think.  You seem to delight in twisting, distorting, and misconstruing the words of others.

 

56 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

are you suggesting that an attacker, having already made the decision to attempt to rob, harm, rape or kill their victim...

 

Exactly.  Instead of being content to use the threat of violence, possibly without displaying a weapon of any sort, the thug made decide to actually use the violence threatened.  Gross generalization....most street robberies happen at close range, by their nature they must happen at arms reach, so lashing out with fist or knife would be the matter of the blink of an eye, even in the face of an armed victim.  

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Intentionally so, I think.  You seem to delight in twisting, distorting, and misconstruing the words of others.

I delight in dissecting absurd assertions AND will sometimes do so by feigning ignorance of the topic.

 

BUT in this specific instance - I was and am legitimately confused.

You are quite obviously an intelligent individual; while we may not always agree on a topic - I would never question your intelligence or ability to reason.

 

And that's why I am slightly confused.

I understand that the appearance of a device that "looks" like a firearm might get a different reaction from the general public than, say, a pepper spray cannister that is hanging from a keychain.

 

But I fail to understand the premise that the appearance of a firearm (or firearm appearing device) is going to cause an attack to become more escalated. 

It would seem logically (to me) to be the opposite - that the attacker would more likely decide to not attack because of the "firearm" or break off their attack when the "firearm" is presented than double down and escalate.

 

Are you aware of any research or statistical evidence that suggests appearing less capable or presenting less resistance while being attacked leads to less injury or harm?

 

I suppose "If" the attack was "only" for the purpose of material item theft - offering no resistance or "exhibiting no threat" might be safer.

 

But knowing that a simple burglary can very suddenly transition to a physical confrontation, attack or rape - I cannot see where appearing less capable would ever be an asset.

 

Doing so would seem to be contrary to every "Don't be a victim" training or direction I have ever been taught or taken part in.

 

I am willing to consider any point to the contrary.

[Texas Joker]

IMO not only would it escalate a confrontations violence, but hominids apply violence based on dominance and resistance. They also change dynamics in a group setting. So to resist a violent confrontation in front of his friends increases the violent response in order for a group leader to maintain status.

 

A person carrying one of these devices can only take resistance to a certain level ie ranged non lethal, this isn't even a taser that locks up muscles allowing escape. So it's a one trick pony and once it's in play there is no surprise.  In a fight the first hit matters: it can take the fight out of somebody or show them you have nothing to be afraid of.

 

I eat cheese hotter than pepper spray. I have been tear gassed and tased. got hit with a taser once before a shooting wounded course that was scored on time and accuracy. There is a point in hard training or fights where you realize 'this ain't so bad' and that you are only running at about xxx% and have more in the tank. There are a lot of reports of folks getting mag dumped and still coming on to finish the job before they die or go to the ER.

 

People who live by violence have EXPERIENCED violence. An air gun that shoots a couple pepper balls or kinetic rounds isnt going to scare them. It'll sell and make the victim feel a false sense of security. OR serve as a LL alternative on a utility belt for someone who CAN escalate violence in response to a threat.

 

In short you pull a thing that looks like a gun on the right kind of phsycho and SHOOT at them but don't kill them they will kill you with your own less lethal toy.

[Alpo]

If you were in Los Angeles or New York City or Trenton or Chicago or DC, or some other place where it was practically impossible to legally carry a gun, and the cops spotted you with one of these things, they would naturally presume you were carrying a gun. Illegally. And would take steps.

 

This might be "LEGAL IN ALL 50 STATES!!", but the police are still going to react.

 

If I am in a place where it is legal to carry a gun, I am going to carry a gun. But if it is illegal to carry a gun, I damn sure am not going to carry something that looks like a gun. That will draw attention from both good guys and bad guys.

 

That is just one of the several reasons I think this is an idiotic idea.

[Subdeacon Joe]

Which do you think this upstanding citizen is most likely to use on you up close if you start to pull your less than lethal pistol?
 

SRPD News Release: Officers Recover Loaded Firearm During Pedestrian Contact

On Friday, June 28, 2024, at approximately 1015 p.m., SRPD Officers assigned to the Special Enforcement Team (SET) contacted a subject who had been observed committing a traffic infraction while riding his bicycle in the 2000 block of Cleveland Av. During the contact, the rider, 40-year-old Santa Rosa resident Duston Voorhes, was pat searched for concealed weapons. The officer located a concealed knife, metal knuckles, and a metal knuckle/knife combination on Voorhes’s person, all of which were illegal to possess. A search incident to arrest revealed a loaded, concealed 9-mm Poly-80 “ghost gun” which had six 9mm rounds loaded into an affixed magazine. There was also an unregistered and unloaded .22 caliber revolver. Voorhes also possessed 14.25 grams of suspected methamphetamine, a scale, and packaging consistent with narcotics sales.

Voorhes was booked into the Sonoma County Main Adult Detention Facility on the following felony and misdemeanor charges:

PC 29800(A)(1)- Felon prohibited from firearm possession.
PC 30305(A)(1)- Felon prohibited from ammunition possession.
PC 25850(C)(6)- Possession of a loaded, unregistered firearm.
PC 25400(A)(2)- Carry a concealed firearm.
PC 21310- Concealed dirk/dagger
PC 21810- Possession of metal knuckles
H&S 11370- Possession of firearm and narcotics
H&S 11379- Possession of narcotics for sale
H&S 11378- Transport narcotics for sale
H&S 11364(A)- Possession of narcotic paraphernalia

SRPD 24-7808

The Santa Rosa Police Department Special Enforcement Team was developed to address the rise in illegal firearm possession and the rise in gun violence in the City of Santa Rosa.

The Santa Rosa Police Department is committed to making the City of Santa Rosa a safe place to live, work, and play.

Media Contact:
Sgt. Matt White

 

And, as Alpo pointed out, in places like CA, DC, NY, NJ if a cop sees you, or one of our lovely, safety conscious, anti-gun citizens eager to SWAT a "gun-totin' red-neck fascist" sees it, it will be considered a firearm and you are likely to become shot.