What's the call?

[Chief Rick]

10 hours ago, Jeb Stuart #65654 said:

I think they are clear, stage instructions state with pistols, meaning both, engage each target at least once.  After P3, P2, P1, P5, P4, the shooter can put the last 5 shots wherever he wants.

That would be P - unless your last shot was on P3 (the center target).

[Jeb Stuart #65654]

4 minutes ago, Chief Rick said:

That would be P - unless your last shot was on P3 (the center target).

Correct

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

How can you mandate a hit? "Each target must be HIT with at least one round." This directly gives a P for a miss. Are you directing the shooter to reload on the clock in order to make a hit and avoid a P? There are many ways this can be engaged, as have been stated and yes, I said "engaged". In the OP, the shooter ENGAGED the targets per the stage instructions and missed one of them; started and ended on P3... MISS and no P.

[Sam Sackett]

8 hours ago, Chief Rick said:

Poor comprehension?  Or do you prefer being told how to shoot every stage?

 

It's a shooter's choice - round count stage.

I believe my comprehension is just fine. Everybody isn’t the same. We all hear or read the same thing, but some end up understanding the stage differently. Case in point, we are now having a long discussion about this particular stage. 
 

No real need to get snarky……..

 

Have a Blessed day….

Sam Sackett 

[Barry Sloe]

9 hours ago, Chief Rick said:

Why do so many people want to be told to shoot every stage a specific way?

First- I meant that as the stage writer, you need to be specific when writing a stage. 

Second- As a Spotter, I like to know where I should be looking. It's hard for my eyes to play catch-up.

 

BS

[Fretless]

I like Scarlett's way, but just for entertainment, as a gunfighter starting with my left hand I would shoot:

34353 32313

Edited April 23 by Fretless

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

1 hour ago, Barry Sloe said:

First- I meant that as the stage writer, you need to be specific when writing a stage. 

Second- As a Spotter, I like to know where I should be looking. It's hard for my eyes to play catch-up.

 

BS

As a stage writer, you need to be CLEAR (well, as clear as you can anyway) and try to respect the different classes as best you can. When a shooter has choices about where they can start or which direction they will go or what order they will shoot a scenario such as this, as a spotter, you can ask how they intend to run the stage, so you will be prepared. Now, they don't HAVE to tell you and sometimes some stages are a little tricky to spot for, especially if you have a very fast shooter or someone who challenges spotters, such as a gunfighter/Outlaw that double-cocks (fires). You just have to do the best you can and if you're not sure... its a hit.

[Chief Rick]

2 hours ago, Sam Sackett said:

I believe my comprehension is just fine. Everybody isn’t the same. We all hear or read the same thing, but some end up understanding the stage differently. Case in point, we are now having a long discussion about this particular stage. 
 

No real need to get snarky……..

 

Have a Blessed day….

Sam Sackett 

Not intending to be snarky or directing the comment/question directly at you.

 

As I've said before, people say "bad stage writing" and that's the only comment.  There's no further clarification on how the person commentating would write it to be more clear "to them".  At the bigger matches that I've been to and the shooter's books from one's I haven't, the trend seems to be more brevity in stage instructions allowing for more shooters choices.

 

Stage instructions can't be written to include every detail for every shooter and most of the people I shoot with like having different ways to engage the targets. 

[Chief Rick]

1 hour ago, Barry Sloe said:

First- I meant that as the stage writer, you need to be specific when writing a stage. 

Second- As a Spotter, I like to know where I should be looking. It's hard for my eyes to play catch-up.

 

BS

I'm trying to comprehend what you mean by being more specific when writing a stage. 

 

To me, I'm hearing "tell me exactly which target to shoot exactly when so everybody has to engage it the same exact way".

 

I've shot matches (single and multi-day events) where every stage scenario dictated exactly which guns were to be shot in a specific order and which targets were to be engaged in a specific order.  Even when I felt a stage lay-out would allow me to be a little smoother/faster if I could shoot it differently, there was no shooters choice.  I prefer to have choices.

 

Yes, that can make spotting more difficult.  I've seen more than spotter ask to be relieved when a really fast gunfighter comes to the line.  There's no disgrace in that.  When the shooting's over, if you can't verbalize where a miss or a procedural happens, it's a hit.

[James Henry Parker SASS#76661]

This is crazy. This is going on this long, very simple easy to read and follow stage. Instructions start and end on the third target must hit the other four targets with at least one round. If you miss one of these targets, it is a miss if you do not start on the center red target number three and and your last shot on that target. It is a P unless you missed the first or last target.

[Captain Bill Burt]

I like options.  Gives me a chance to burn up some brain cells.  Some folks don't. 

 

At the South Carolina State match the stage I wrote gave folks the option of sweeping right to left rifles then pistols on eight targets with a four target regressive rifle sweep 4,4,4,4,3,3,3,2,2,1 followed by a four target right to left progressive pistol sweep 1,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,4,4 (8 total targets slanted away from the shooter left to right with targets 4 and 8 smaller than the others).  OR you could shoot left to right with progressive pistol sweep followed by a regressive rifle sweep.  Basically the shooter had to choose between dumping four pistol rounds on a close pistol target or dumping four rifle rounds on a close rifle target.  I thought of it as 'pick your poison.'

 

Most chose right to left (I did and ran it in 18 seconds and some change) and dumped four rounds on the close pistol target, BUT I did hear there was quite a bit of grumbling.  Live and learn I guess. 

 

I expect that stage won't be seen again at SC.

Edited April 23 by Captain Bill Burt

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

A Progressive THEN a Regressive??? And you give ME grief! You're pure evil!

[Chief Rick]

8 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

A Progressive THEN a Regressive??? And you give ME grief! You're pure evil!

Concur!  I tend to keep the sweeps the same for pistol and rifle unless there are knock downs for one or the other.

[Captain Bill Burt]

18 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

A Progressive THEN a Regressive??? And you give ME grief! You're pure evil!

You had the option of doing a regressive and then a progressive if you liked that better. 

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

3 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

You had the option of doing a regressive and then a progressive if you liked that better. 

It shot well.

 

Randy

[Too Tall Bob]

I wonder if Hells Comin’ has popped his popcorn yet?

[Kid Rich]

10 hours ago, Too Tall Bob said:

I wonder if Hells Comin’ has popped his popcorn yet?

More likely a couple of brain cells.

kR

[Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667]

17 hours ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

It shot well.

 

Randy

Stew did remind the crowd “You people VOTED for these stages!”

 

I thought Bill’s stage was fun.  I don’t believe anyone on my posse got a P on that stage.

 

Some people complain too much.

[Mister Badly]

On 4/22/2024 at 5:36 PM, Scarlett said:

It’s not… I’d love this stage! I’d do

P3 P3 then work outside and back in on both sides ending with a double

tap on P3! Fun!

 

Hugs!

Scarlett

As an Outlaw Gunfighter I would shoot it 3315243333

[Hoss]

On 4/23/2024 at 8:58 AM, Chief Rick said:

I'm trying to comprehend what you mean by being more specific when writing a stage. 

 

To me, I'm hearing "tell me exactly which target to shoot exactly when so everybody has to engage it the same exact way".

 

I've shot matches (single and multi-day events) where every stage scenario dictated exactly which guns were to be shot in a specific order and which targets were to be engaged in a specific order.  Even when I felt a stage lay-out would allow me to be a little smoother/faster if I could shoot it differently, there was no shooters choice.  I prefer to have choices.

 

Yes, that can make spotting more difficult.  I've seen more than spotter ask to be relieved when a really fast gunfighter comes to the line.  There's no disgrace in that.  When the shooting's over, if you can't verbalize where a miss or a procedural happens, it's a hit.

I would disagree on being able to tell exactly what target was missed, especially on a round count stage. If I see dirt fly, a tree hit etc and there is no visible or likely (or possible) edger it’s gonna be a miss. I will give shooter every benefit of the doubt, but no doubt = no benefit! 
 

i generally can tell you which target was missed, but not always. I would agree that spotter should be able to say rifle or pistol miss 

 

 

[Griff]

On 4/23/2024 at 12:26 PM, Captain Bill Burt said:

...BUT I did hear there was quite a bit of grumbling.  Live and learn I guess. 

Two life's truths:  1 - There'll be folks that'll complain about being hung with a new rope... or a used one!

 

2 - There's no use in complainin'... all that gets ya is being labeled a complainer!