Pat Riot Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Howdy, My sister, who has always been a once a year or less casual shooter has expressed interest in shooting as a hobby as well as taking courses for safety, self defense and CCW. She tried and really likes my S&W model 10. She also tried my Glocks and she liked my G43 compact, but I convinced her that she really doesn’t have enough shooting experience to use a gun without a dedicated safety on it. I love my Glocks, but I don’t feel they are a good firearm for new shooters, in regards to their manual of arms. I recommended she try a S&W M&P Shield EZ. She has arthritis. She could barely rack the slide on my Glock 44 .22lr and couldn’t rack the slides on the bigger ones - all 9mm. I was steering her towards a revolver and she was interested until she saw pricing. She sent me some ads from Grab A Gun and asked if $450 was too much to pay for a 9mm or .380 Shield EZ. Then out of the blue she sent me a link from GaG that had the Shield EZ .30 Super Carry priced at $280. Darn good price, but I really couldn’t give her any real world feedback on the .30 SC except for what I have read about it. Anyone have experience with the EZ and the .30 Super Carry cartridge? Thank you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 No, but here's a trick for racking the slide for people who have hand problem. For a right handed shooter, rotate the gun counter clockwise until the top of the slide is at the 9 o'clock position and then try and rack the slide. Reverse for a left handed shooter. There are also devices out there that you can mount to the slide to help rack it. If the Shield EZ .30 Super Carry is $170 less than the same gun in 9 mm & .380, it suggests the gun isn't selling and that just maybe in the near future .30 Super Carry ammo might be hard to find. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 26 minutes ago, Chantry said: No, but here's a trick for racking the slide for people who have hand problem. For a right handed shooter, rotate the gun counter clockwise until the top of the slide is at the 9 o'clock position and then try and rack the slide. Reverse for a left handed shooter. There are also devices out there that you can mount to the slide to help rack it. If the Shield EZ .30 Super Carry is $170 less than the same gun in 9 mm & .380, it suggests the gun isn't selling and that just maybe in the near future .30 Super Carry ammo might be hard to find. Thank you. I sent my sister this video: Regarding the Shield EZ .30SC. I agree that it might be phased out due to poor sales, but in searching AmmoSeek I find there are a lot more ammo companies making ammo in .30 Super Carry. It was just Federal. Now it’s Federal, Remington, CCI, PPU and a couple of others that I can’t remember. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 I don't have any experience with the .30 Super Carry but I will suggest this if she buys one. Buy at least 5 extra magazines, more if possible. Buy the reloading dies and plenty of bullets and brass for it if she likes it. If the gun is not popular, ammo will get hard to get and original magazines will be outrageously expensive in as few as 10 years after falling out of favor. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 I figure the 30 SC , will go the way of the dodo CB 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconKC Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 I have shot the 30. It has less recoil than the 9mm and is very easy to shoot. With JHPs I can see it being nasty against 2 legged vermin, as I had a customer use one on a coyote at 50+ yards. Said it flipped the dog completely over. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 It will go the way of the 327 Federal it’s an answer to a question that no one asked 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 The EZ series of guns is easier to rack. The shields are striker fired - the equalizer is hammer fired (albeit internally hammered). I bought an Equalizer for my wife - liked it so much; bought one for myself. Ours are in 9mm - ammo is plentiful and "cheap" and there are no shortage of defensive loadings or bullet choices. Some calibers come along as evolutions or "improvements" upon existing rounds - some are created out of the air because of perceived need and some are created to sell you another gun/ another caliber. 30 super carry doesnt do anything that an existing caliber doesn't already. My recommendation would be an EZ or Equalizer in 9mm. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Henry T Harrison said: It will go the way of the 327 Federal it’s an answer to a question that no one asked This is exactly what I was thinking. A friend wanted a revolver in 327 because it was touted by many as the next greatest thing. When asked I told her IMO it did nothing that the 38 special couldn't do, cost considerably more for both ammo and guns and would most likely become hard to find in the future. All of which have have happened. 30SC is a nearly identical experiment IMO. Regards Gateway Kid 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 2 hours ago, DeaconKC said: I have shot the 30. It has less recoil than the 9mm and is very easy to shoot. With JHPs I can see it being nasty against 2 legged vermin, as I had a customer use one on a coyote at 50+ yards. Said it flipped the dog completely over. Thank you. That is what I was curious about. Less recoil and easy to shoot. In reading various articles the .30 SC gets good reviews, but I don’t put a lot of stock in reviews where the person gets to try a free gun with free ammo and they make money for doing it I tend to think they may be a bit jaded. Everyone: I explained much of this to my sister regarding the round and it’s possible lifespan. SHOT Show is coming. If there aren’t a lot of new guns being introduced in 30 Super Carry that will also tell me a lot about where things are going with this round. After looking at this round and reports of what it can do I might get one myself IF more manufacturers make guns for the round. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconKC Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 32 minutes ago, Pat Riot said: Thank you. That is what I was curious about. Less recoil and easy to shoot. In reading various articles the .30 SC gets good reviews, but I don’t put a lot of stock in reviews where the person gets to try a free gun with free ammo and they make money for doing it I tend to think they may be a bit jaded. Everyone: I explained much of this to my sister regarding the round and it’s possible lifespan. SHOT Show is coming. If there aren’t a lot of new guns being introduced in 30 Super Carry that will also tell me a lot about where things are going with this round. After looking at this round and reports of what it can do I might get one myself IF more manufacturers make guns for the round. Pat, look at the guns in 5.7x28 too. It's not in the EZ but a low recoil round as well 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 41 minutes ago, DeaconKC said: Pat, look at the guns in 5.7x28 too. It's not in the EZ but a low recoil round as well I hadn’t considered that one. Thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Can you find ammo? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconKC Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Yes, ammo for the 30 is easy to find at this time. Of course, no one knows what cartridges will still be popular in 10 years, but a strictly self-defense gun will probably be adequately served with 4-5 boxes of ammo over it's life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 2 minutes ago, DeaconKC said: Yes, ammo for the 30 is easy to find at this time. Of course, no one knows what cartridges will still be popular in 10 years, but a strictly self-defense gun will probably be adequately served with 4-5 boxes of ammo over it's life. 4-5 boxes of Defensive ammo - possibly. But what about the practice ammo? I'm a firm believer in minimum 50 rounds of practice per carry gun monthly. Keeps muscle memory fresh and gives confidence that the gun continues to cycle and fire correctly (as opposed to the carry queens that never get fired or cycled.) I cannot count the number of "carry guns" that don't work at CCW qualifying because the last time it was fired or cycled was 5 years ago at their last class. Action full of varnished oils and pocket lint. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 11 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Can you find ammo? Yes. At my LGS they have plenty in stocks. Much of it is range and target ammo, but defensive ammo is also available. 2 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said: 4-5 boxes of Defensive ammo - possibly. But what about the practice ammo? I'm a firm believer in minimum 50 rounds of practice per carry gun monthly. Keeps muscle memory fresh and gives confidence that the gun continues to cycle and fire correctly (as opposed to the carry queens that never get fired or cycled.) I cannot count the number of "carry guns" that don't work at CCW qualifying because the last time it was fired or cycled was 5 years ago at their last class. Action full of varnished oils and pocket lint. I am a firm believer in target practice with your carry guns. I also think you should put practice in with your carry load often. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconKC Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 8 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said: 4-5 boxes of Defensive ammo - possibly. But what about the practice ammo? I'm a firm believer in minimum 50 rounds of practice per carry gun monthly. Keeps muscle memory fresh and gives confidence that the gun continues to cycle and fire correctly (as opposed to the carry queens that never get fired or cycled.) I cannot count the number of "carry guns" that don't work at CCW qualifying because the last time it was fired or cycled was 5 years ago at their last class. Action full of varnished oils and pocket lint. You are preaching to the choir my friend. I harp on practice all the time. But sadly, most folks won't. That is one area that a bottlenecked round like the 30 or 5.7 has a slight advantage over straight wall rounds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 22 minutes ago, DeaconKC said: Yes, ammo for the 30 is easy to find at this time. Of course, no one knows what cartridges will still be popular in 10 years, but a strictly self-defense gun will probably be adequately served with 4-5 boxes of ammo over its life. 3 minutes ago, DeaconKC said: You are preaching to the choir my friend. I harp on practice all the time. But sadly, most folks won't. That is one area that a bottlenecked round like the 30 or 5.7 has a slight advantage over straight wall rounds. I knew what you meant in the prior post. She and I are going to a range near her next week. She’s 70 miles north of me. She’s going to shoot the S&W Shield EZ in .380 and 9mm. If they have a .30 Super Carry gun we’ll rent that as well. I know they don’t have a Shield in 30 SC. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stump Water Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 8 hours ago, Pat Riot said: she really doesn’t have enough shooting experience to use a gun without a dedicated safety on it. That right there says DA revolver. S&W J-frame hammerless. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Stump Water said: That right there says DA revolver. S&W J-frame hammerless. Actually, she really liked my model 10 when I took her shooting. This next time I am going to bring that and a Colt Detective Special, a model 36 and a model 442. What I am trying to do is give her options so she can choose what she thinks is right for her. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconKC Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 That 442 is a great gun. Try it with the Winchester 110 grain JHPs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stump Water said: That right there says DA revolver. S&W J-frame hammerless. no, no and NO Taking a small gun with a heavy for it's size trigger pull, limited to 5 rounds with a slow reload and giving it to a novice shooter for self defense was and will always be a bad choice. Especially someone with arthritis in her hands. There is no reason at all that Pat's sister, with a little practice and time, can't learn to shoot a semi-auto accurately in a far shorter time frame than any J frame or equivalent revolver. On edit: What major police department issues a revolver as the primary sidearm? Certainly none that I am aware and even departments that encourage a back up gun seem to be pushing a small semi-auto. Edited January 19 by Chantry 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Yes you need to shoot the actual ammo you are going to carry to make sure it functions in your gun. But it is easy to replicate that ammo, bullet weight and velocity, for much cheaper to routinely practice with. Then you'll be able to practice more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 EAA imports the Girsan .380 that is a copy of the Beretta model 86 tip-up barrel for about $450. It is not as well finished as the Beretta but it is not $1500 either. You load the chamber by pressing down on a lever that tips the barrel. Very safe. Does not require cycling the slide. Easy to unload also. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 10 hours ago, Tom Bullweed said: EAA imports the Girsan .380 that is a copy of the Beretta model 86 tip-up barrel for about $450. It is not as well finished as the Beretta but it is not $1500 either. You load the chamber by pressing down on a lever that tips the barrel. Very safe. Does not require cycling the slide. Easy to unload also. Thank you. That’s a pretty cool set up. I figured it was going to look like the Beretta Tomcat. 14 rounds of .380 gives you several double taps. https://eaacorp.com/product/girsan-mc-14t-tip-up/ 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 I watched a video on that Girsan MC 14T and I am not sure this is a good gun for a first time gun owner / carrier. Around 8 mins in the discussion of failures starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocWard Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 14 hours ago, Chantry said: no, no and NO Taking a small gun with a heavy for it's size trigger pull, limited to 5 rounds with a slow reload and giving it to a novice shooter for self defense was and will always be a bad choice. Especially someone with arthritis in her hands. There is no reason at all that Pat's sister, with a little practice and time, can't learn to shoot a semi-auto accurately in a far shorter time frame than any J frame or equivalent revolver. On edit: What major police department issues a revolver as the primary sidearm? Certainly none that I am aware and even departments that encourage a back up gun seem to be pushing a small semi-auto. We will agree to disagree on this issue. I've worked with a number of women, including AB, who have arthritis or limited hand strength. I've tried the method shown in the video, as well as extending the arms and rotating the firearm 90 degrees with very limited success. Of the ones I've worked with that I've seen shoot, they have had little problem putting rounds center mass at 5-7 yards in double action with some practice. In some cases, the DA revolver is the best solution. I would rather know there are five or six shots, depending on revolver, followed by a practiced reload from a speed loader, than being one failure to feed or extract from being out of the fight. Oh, and what police department is regularly hiring older ladies with arthritic hands at this time? I know times are tough for law enforcement, but... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 19 minutes ago, DocWard said: We will agree to disagree on this issue. I've worked with a number of women, including AB, who have arthritis or limited hand strength. I've tried the method shown in the video, as well as extending the arms and rotating the firearm 90 degrees with very limited success. Of the ones I've worked with that I've seen shoot, they have had little problem putting rounds center mass at 5-7 yards in double action with some practice. In some cases, the DA revolver is the best solution. I would rather know there are five or six shots, depending on revolver, followed by a practiced reload from a speed loader, than being one failure to feed or extract from being out of the fight. Oh, and what police department is regularly hiring older ladies with arthritic hands at this time? I know times are tough for law enforcement, but... There is no single solution to a problem, it is a matter of finding the best solution for a given person. What may work for one shooter may not work for another. We are legally responsible for any rounds that miss an attacker and go on to injure or kill another person. That means finding a gun the person can afford, can shoot well, can shoot comfortably and that, given all of the prior qualifications, is effective in stopping the attack. I've seen a number of experienced shooters unable to hit a 10" steel plate with a snub-nosed revolver at 10 yards. They did better with some of the small semi-autos, especially with the striker fired "Glock style" trigger. And no major police departments issue revolvers because they are harder to master and carry less ammo than the semi-auto equivalent. Most police officers aren't shooters when they join the department and police departments generally select a standard firearm that is reliable, easy to shoot and as close to idiot proof as possible. Much the same as the average CCW person. Those of us who shoot regularly for practice, recreation or competition are the outliers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 13 minutes ago, DocWard said: We will agree to disagree on this issue. I've worked with a number of women, including AB, who have arthritis or limited hand strength. I've tried the method shown in the video, as well as extending the arms and rotating the firearm 90 degrees with very limited success. Of the ones I've worked with that I've seen shoot, they have had little problem putting rounds center mass at 5-7 yards in double action with some practice. In some cases, the DA revolver is the best solution. I would rather know there are five or six shots, depending on revolver, followed by a practiced reload from a speed loader, than being one failure to feed or extract from being out of the fight. Oh, and what police department is regularly hiring older ladies with arthritic hands at this time? I know times are tough for law enforcement, but... Thank you Doc. This is why I want her, my sister, to shoot several styles and sizes of handguns. She liked shooting my S&W model 10. Unfortunately, that day I only bought my models 10 & 63. This time she will try my models 442, 36, 10 and my Colt DS. She will shoot my Glock 43 again and the rental Shield EZ and whatever else looks interesting in the rentals at the gun store / range. Anyone learning about concealed carry and self defense should have as many options to choose from as reasonably possible so they can make an educated choice in what they like. If a person doesn’t like, trust or has a fear of or has pain from shooting a gun they will not practice with it. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocWard Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 9 minutes ago, Chantry said: There is no single solution to a problem, it is a matter of finding the best solution for a given person. What may work for one shooter may not work for another. Your original post on the subject seemed to suggest otherwise, which is why I felt obligated to respond. 9 minutes ago, Chantry said: We are legally responsible for any rounds that miss an attacker and go on to injure or kill another person. That means finding a gun the person can afford, can shoot well, can shoot comfortably and that, given all of the prior qualifications, is effective in stopping the attack. Add to that "has confidence in," and we're on the same sheet of music here. 9 minutes ago, Chantry said: I've seen a number of experienced shooters unable to hit a 10" steel plate with a snub-nosed revolver at 10 yards. They did better with some of the small semi-autos, especially with the striker fired "Glock style" trigger. If you ever stand behind me and watch me shoot the striker fired pistols I have, particularly the Glocks (NOT A SLAM AGAINST GLOCK! Just my ability with them), you might wonder who taught me to shoot and why I bother. The notable exception being the H&K VP9 and its awesome trigger. No, I'm not a trigger snob. I don't sweat things like "reset" and all that. I will, however, put a tighter group downrange all day with my Beretta PX-4, or M-9, even with the first round double action. I can't explain it. It just is. 9 minutes ago, Chantry said: And no major police departments issue revolvers because they are harder to master and carry less ammo than the semi-auto equivalent. Most police officers aren't shooters when they join the department and police departments generally select a standard firearm that is reliable, easy to shoot and as close to idiot proof as possible. Much the same as the average CCW person. Those of us who shoot regularly for practice, recreation or competition are the outliers. And I will reiterate that the police departments aren't hiring arthritic old ladies, so that is still somewhat of a red herring. It gets back to point number one, above. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 Well, my sister and I will go shooting next (this) Saturday. She’s excited about trying my revolvers and the Shield pistol in .380. The lady I spoke to at the range didn’t think they had a .30 Super Carry to rent. Which might be a blessing anyway. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 She just rescheduled. Looks like 1st week of February now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D. Daily Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 From what I read about the 30 SC when it was released by Federal it answers the need for magazines that carry more rounds than you can in a compact 9. Forget the 5.7X28. The pistols are full size. The round was developed by FN for defeating Russian body armor with a P90 sub gun. From what I have read reloading results are less that good. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilli GaHoot Galoot Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 57 minutes ago, J.D. Daily said: From what I have read reloading results are less that good. The factory 5.7x28 cases have a polymer coating to help with extraction, that coating becomes compromised when it's fired/cleaned/reloaded 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 I told her I am bringing her some revolvers to try. All .38/.357 We will be shooting .38 Specials Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum S&W model 10 .38 Special S&W 327 Night Guard .357 Colt Detective Special .38 S&W model 36 .38 Spl S&W model 442 .38 Spl This should give her some ideas on whether or not she’s interested in revolvers. Hopefully she doesn’t get too interested in owning one of my revolvers. I am also bringing, in 9mm, my Glocks 43, 48 and a Glone 19 (Glock clone) just so she can feel the difference in recoil from a 9mm to a .380 and possibly a 30 Super Carry I am hoping the range also has, besides a Shield, a Ruger LCP Max .380 and a Security.380. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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