Iron Jim Rackham Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 I shoot a couple of 45-70's trapdoor springfields with both black powder and smokeless loads. For blackpowder I shoot lead cast bullets, but for smokeless I'd like to use red polymer coated bullets. I've gotten good results using ight loads of IMR4198. but 300 grain bullets exceed 1400 fps, and I'm wondering if coated bullets are designed to withstand that type of velocity. I've fired polymer bullets out of pistols with velcities in the 700-900 fps range, and am uncertain how much velocity they are designed to withstand before fouling the bore with coating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 It's more to do with pressure and heat potentially melting the base of the bullet. The coating is just a replacement for lube and makes for much cleaner loading. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 Known Fact. Red Polymer bullets are indeed faster than Black Polymer bullets. 1 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCatcher Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 These guys claim a 2400 f/s top speed: https://www.egglestonmunitions.com/faq.html SC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 You are supposed to be able to push them faster then the crayon lubed bullets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Jim Rackham Posted December 31, 2023 Author Share Posted December 31, 2023 Thank you all very much. Can polymer bullets be crimped? The bullets feature crimp grooves, so it appears they should be crimped, but wonder if crimping tears the polymer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 Badman Bullets FAQ 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 I crimp my PC bullets with no adverse affects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Jim Rackham Posted December 31, 2023 Author Share Posted December 31, 2023 Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) My own experience has been Excellent with Polymer Coated Bullets. I shoot APP exclusively, again with excellent results. I crimp firmly in the crimp groove to prevent damaging the Polymer and do not "bite" into the lead. I've been shooting Badman Bullets as well as Bullets by Scarlett. Excellent and Excellent. OOPS: I overlooked the original velocity question from the OP. I have no clue what the Max velocity might be based on my actual experience. I don't think I've shot anything over a thousand FPS. No help there. Edited January 1 by Colorado Coffinmaker Correct an omission 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Fingers, SASS#56813 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 11 hours ago, Iron Jim Rackham said: I shoot a couple of 45-70's trapdoor springfields with both black powder and smokeless loads. For blackpowder I shoot lead cast bullets, but for smokeless I'd like to use red polymer coated bullets. I've gotten good results using ight loads of IMR4198. but 300 grain bullets exceed 1400 fps, and I'm wondering if coated bullets are designed to withstand that type of velocity. I've fired polymer bullets out of pistols with velcities in the 700-900 fps range, and am uncertain how much velocity they are designed to withstand before fouling the bore with coating. Some of the USPSA guys I shoot with are pushing coated 9mm bullets at 1400 to 1500 fps out of open div guns without any issues. LF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) 21 hours ago, Assassin said: It's more to do with pressure and heat potentially melting the base of the bullet. The coating is just a replacement for lube and makes for much cleaner loading. . The heat will not melt the base. The bullet is not in contact with the hot gasses long enough for this to happen. I'ver tested this with real BP with 2 circles of rolling paper between the bullet and a compressed load of powder in my 45-70. Shoot the round over a large tarp so that I could recover the paper and they weren't even singed. Trust me the brass and barrel were hotter than any smokeless powder could get them. For powder coated bullets, melting occurs only one of two ways. Both are the result of gas cutting. 1. Shooting bullets that undersized and too hard to obturate to fill the bore. This will allow the hot gasses to pass between the bullet and the barrel. The hot gas jet will melt the polymer and the underlying lead leaving deposits in your barrel. 2. Too soft a bullet pushed too fast. The high pressures needed to push the bullet this fast will force their way between the bullet and barrel. The hot gas jet will melt the polymer and the underlying lead leaving deposits in your barrel. Lubed bullets are also subject to gas cutting. 1. Shooting bullets that undersized and too hard to obturate to fill the bore. This will allow the hot gasses to pass between the bullet and the barrel. The hot gas jet will melt the lead leaving deposits in your barrel. 2. Too soft a bullet pushed too fast. The high pressures needed to push the bullet this fast will force their way between the bullet and barrel resulting in the same deposits as above. Gas checks can prevent this. 3. Using a lube that is too hard for the velocities you are shooting. It will fail to properly seal the gap between the bullet and the bore and allow gas cutting. Slower velocities require softer lube. 4. Insufficient lube for the given barrel length. When the lube runs out, gas cutting is possible and you will get lead deposits near the muzzle end of the barrel. Edited January 1 by Sedalia Dave 2 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 21 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said: The heat will not melt the base. The bullet is not in contact with the hot gasses long enough for this to happen. I'ver tested this with real BP with 2 circles of rolling paper between the bullet and a compressed load of powder in my 45-70. Shoot the round over a large tarp so that I could recover the paper and they weren't even singed. Trust me the brass and barrel were hotter than any smokeless powder could get them. For powder coated bullets, melting occurs only one of two ways. Both are the result of gas cutting. 1. Shooting bullets that undersized and too hard to obturate to fill the bore. This will allow the hot gasses to pass between the bullet and the barrel. The hot gas jet will melt the polymer and the underlying lead leaving deposits in your barrel. 2. Too soft a bullet pushed too fast. The high pressures needed to push the bullet this fast will force their way between the bullet and barrel. The hot gas jet will melt the polymer and the underlying lead leaving deposits in your barrel. Lubed bullets are also subject to gas cutting. 1. Shooting bullets that undersized and too hard to obturate to fill the bore. This will allow the hot gasses to pass between the bullet and the barrel. The hot gas jet will melt the lead leaving deposits in your barrel. 2. Too soft a bullet pushed too fast. The high pressures needed to push the bullet this fast will force their way between the bullet and barrel resulting in the same deposits as above. Gas checks can prevent this. 3. Using a lube that is too hard for the velocities you are shooting. It will fail to properly seal the gap between the bullet and the bore and allow gas cutting. Slower velocities require softer lube. 4. Insufficient lube for the given barrel length. When the lube runs out, gas cutting is possible and you will get lead deposits near the muzzle end of the barrel. All of which makes me wonder why so many of CAS bullet makers cast with hard lead. I've had much better luck with no leading with soft cast bullets. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 21 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said: All of which makes me wonder why so many of CAS bullet makers cast with hard lead. I've had much better luck with no leading with soft cast bullets. So it makes more of a pa-tang when it hits the target at 300 fps! 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 PLUS ONE for Chola. Shooting .36s with regular lead ball, I often got called misses cause the "spotters" couldn't "hear" the ball hit a dead target. I switched to harder cast EPP UG - 36 bullets and get a nice satisfying KLANG for those BLIND spotters. 1 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said: PLUS ONE for Chola. Shooting .36s with regular lead ball, I often got called misses cause the "spotters" couldn't "hear" the ball hit a dead target. I switched to harder cast EPP UG - 36 bullets and get a nice satisfying KLANG for those BLIND spotters. I used to shoot with a guy that used a .36 C&B. He would always warn the spotters that he was using it and please be alert for hits. I did my best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 I have loaded the Hitech coated bullets at higher velocity for my 44 mag Marlin and they worked fine. Not max loads. Actually I want to chrono them to see where they're at. 240gr swc cycled fone too. Also 405gr coated in my Marlin 45-70 at 1400 to 1500fps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Jim Rackham Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 Thank you all very much. I appreciate the information and time it took to share it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) From Eggelston Bullets FAQ Q: How should I load polymer coated bullets? Work up loads based on data for hard cast lead or plated bullets of the same weight. Always gauge or test chamber your cartridges to ensure proper O.A.L. Some of our bullets are shorter than typical lead or plated bullets, and use a shorter C.O.A.L as a result. Use of 'Factory Crimp' dies is discouraged, but careful testing can yield successful results. A light taper crimp is the preferred method for crimping, if the body or base of the bullet is squished by too much crimping the result may be poor accuracy and/or keyhole issues. Flair the case mouths enough that the polymer coating is not being shaved off during bullet seating, this is crucial in preventing leading. Unlike regular hard cast lead bullets, fast burning powders such as Titegroup will work exceptionally well with EM Polymer Coated bullets. As always, start light and work up to more powerful loads. Visit out Articles section for much more in-depth information! Speeds up to 2700 fps. Above 2600 evidently smokes more. https://www.egglestonmunitions.com/faq.html Edited January 3 by Marauder SASS #13056 Link added. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 From Badman Bullets FAQ. (I've used their bulletsf) What are the advantages of shooting Badman Polymer Coated Bullets? Let's compare the difference between Polymer and plated bullets. * Plated bullets have a soft core (8-10 BHN) with a strong copper outer finish. They perform well at mid velocities or higher end lead velocities but can be rather expensive to shoot and can wear your barrel out faster. Plated bullets also have speed restrictions of less than 1,500 fps. * Badman Polymer Coated Bullets have a strong lead core (16 BHN) with a durable 2 layer baked on Polymer coating finish. They perform extremely well from low to high velocities. We have personally tested our .452 diameter 250 Grain RNFP bullet to 1,800 fps with great results. Compared to plated or jacketed bullets they are less expensive, as good as or better and they don't foul your barrel. How fast can I shoot the Badman Polymer Coated Bullets? As fast as you can pull the trigger. LOL Seriously though, these bullets can be pushed out to 2,200 fps with great results as long as they are loaded properly. Do the bullets smoke when being fired? No. You will notice a dramatic reduction in smoke compared to standard lubed bullets as there is no wax used in the making of this bullet. The Polymer is the lubricant. Please Note: You may still experience some smoke when shooting these as this comes from the powder you may be using. Some powders smoke more than others. Check out this Video demonstrating the durability of our Polymer coating under extreme heat. Can I use the polymer coated bullets with real Black Powder? No... the polymer is not intended to be used with real BP... but they will work with black powder substitutes. Can I shoot these in a polygonal rifled barrel? Our bullets perform the same as a plated or jacketed bullet and work well in polygonal rifling leaving the barrels clean. Do I need a gas check with our bullets? No. The polymer coating is very durable and can withstand high pressures without compromising performance. Do I need to apply wax lube to them before loading? No. The Polymer coating is the lube. Nothing else is required to load them. https://www.badmanbullets.com/OnlineStore/faq.php#POLYMER_COATED_BULLETS 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Gregg Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Crimping won't hurt. It is done on almost all CAS bullets. The coating stays on when sizing and that is more stress than a crimp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Creek,5759 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Wonder if you can use a Gas Check? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Bailey Creek,5759 said: Wonder if you can use a Gas Check? Yes, I have powdered coat my Saeco #316 GC boolits, apply a gas check and size them to .309 and shoot them upwards of 2200 fps. No problems. I apply the gas check AFTER powder coating. I use a yellow powder on these... Edited January 4 by Griff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, Mustang Gregg said: Crimping won't hurt. It is done on almost all CAS bullets. The coating stays on when sizing and that is more stress than a crimp. Yep. If the coating is properly applied it is fused to the lead and will not flake off even if the bullet is hammered flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 On 12/31/2023 at 1:33 PM, Iron Jim Rackham said: Thank you all very much. Can polymer bullets be crimped? The bullets feature crimp grooves, so it appears they should be crimped, but wonder if crimping tears the polymer. The Hi-Tek Polymer bullets CAN be crimped without damage to the coating - the ones I sell are coated three times - which may make a difference. I am not making special claims… The bullets with crimp grooves probably also have lube groove because mold sets are very expensive to replace especially if the molds with crimp/lube grooves are in good shape. Our new molds do not have crimp/lube grooves which give the option to load to a custom overall length. I’ve shot a lot of Hi-Tek coated bullets out of my Browning 1885 HiWall (405gr bullet 1180 fps) with no issues. Hugs! Scarlett 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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