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Cowboys vs Cops


Jackaroo, # 29989

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I know there are some of the above matches at a few clubs.

Just wondering if someone has an ideas how they are run, stage set ups and stages if possible.

I think Bigiron Patnode was involved in one or two some time back.?

Would appreciate an ideas as to how this is done. and see if it's a possibility to get a match up at our club next year.

Thanks & merry christmas to y'all. :wub:

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The Tejas Caballeros held one again recently, after none during Covid.  I wasn't there but have heard it discussed.  It was a benefit for a local charity benefiting families of downed LEO's.  The cops won but they had stoked shotguns and larger cardboard targets than the cowboys steel targets.  Big Iron wasn't there this year but I'm sure he could tell you more.  Here are the results if you want to see who was there that could tell you more:

https://practiscore.com/results/new/0d7b0fe9-1a39-43c7-a68d-1902a7f169ca

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I run a Cops & Cowboys match in Damascus, MD every year with the proceeds going to Heroes, Inc, a charity that supports the families of fallen Police and First Responders in the Washington, DC area.   We have a page on our website dedicated just to the C&C matches and you can link to it here...Cops & Cowboys.  There is some additional information on there about the requirements.

 

Basically, I set up a Cowboy match, but use Cardboard IPSC targets for the rifle targets as the 223/556 rounds are hard on the steel.  I set the pistol targets out a little farther than normal, and the rifle about the same as for the cowboys.  Cops basically use Wild Bunch rules for pistols so we have to have a place to stage the pistol after it is fired dry.  We let the Cops use either any shotgun, semi, pump, or sxs and they can preload their shotgun as does Wild Bunch.  We also allow Cowboys to shoot Wild Bunch, but they have to load their shotgun on the clock.  (Got to give the Cops a fighting chance.  :lol:)

 

Links to the stages for the last 6 years are on the website and you can download them if desired.

 

Hardest part is getting the Cops to come out and play.  Like the rest of the population, they are not all "Gun Guys/Gals", most of them only fire their side-arms for yearly qualification.  We had one Cop show up a few years ago that had never fired a shotgun in their life.  We helped them out with a loaner...

 

If there are any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask.  I have some other stuff on my other computer I can send you or post if you so desire.

 

Dogmeat

 

P.S.  We call it Cops & Cowboys instead of Cops VS Cowboys so they won't think we are gunning for them! :P

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In the States, the police duty rifle would commonly be an AR-15, which doesn't like lead bullets and punches holes in our steel targets.  A way around the AR-15 is to give them the option of shooting a Cowboy provided rifle/ammo or letting them substitute the rifle for a 10 round magazine for their pistol.  

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48 minutes ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

In the States, the police duty rifle would commonly be an AR-15, which doesn't like lead bullets and punches holes in our steel targets.  A way around the AR-15 is to give them the option of shooting a Cowboy provided rifle/ammo or letting them substitute the rifle for a 10 round magazine for their pistol.  

 

So make it "Old School" cops where they use DA revolvers, pump shotguns and...  Tommy Guns!

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4 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Three stages everyone shoots modern guns at modern distances using cardboard targets and three stages shooting CAS with our equipment. Lowest times win.

 

We thought about that, but there are issues.  Not all of the Cowboys are familiar with AR's and Glocks, and few of the Cops are familiar with the Cowboy Guns.

 

After the match, we usually let the Cops shoot the Cowboy guns if they wanted, but it didn't go the other way.

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15 minutes ago, Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L said:

We thought about that, but there are issues.  Not all of the Cowboys are familiar with AR's and Glocks,

 

Is that really an issue?  We are shootists after all.    I mean, I don't have a Glock, but I do have many other autoloading pistols, and I am sure I could handle one safely.  And I do have an AR.  I can't be the only Cowboy shooter who also has modern guns in his collection.

That said, I can believe the cops not being firearms enthusiasts.  

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A lot of the Lady shooters won't use an AR, I asked around.  There are also a lot of potential safety issues when folks are using unfamiliar equipment, especially in a timed competition.  My concern is not the shooting, it's what to do if there is a malfunction and what the shooters will do in that circumstance.

 

While it is interesting to consider, I think it would be worth having a "Training Day" before running it in a match.  But that is just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

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Instead of 5.56 AR, shoot pistol caliber carbines, 9mm, 45ACP. That's what we did once. They can shoot their duty guns and any Shotgun. Fun, fun and we mostly beat them with our cowboy guns!

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Having put on many cops and cowboy matches. Usually called "The 1880s vs the 1990s".

The cowboys use their standard match guns.

The cops use their duty guns.

Paper targets and tape to cover holes. 12" circles or squares. (Paper plates work as well and you can just change them out between shooters.)

Targets set out a little farther than cowboy matches of today.

 

What I found was if I put the targets 3' apart it did not slow down the cowboys and it did not give the semi autos or auto rifles an advantage.

Cowboys loads as at any cowboy match.

The cop load 5 in pistol magazines and load up the rifles and shotguns how ever they want. (this is where the target spacing of 3' or more comes in handy.)

 

You will find the cops do have some very good shooters but most have troubles with the speed of our game and the gun transitions.

 

I like the donating the entry fees to some law enforcement charity.

 

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2 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

So make it "Old School" cops where they use DA revolvers, pump shotguns and...  Tommy Guns!

That's called "Zoot Shooting" :D

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At the Cabs match, cops shoot their jacketed ammo at paper targets hung above cowboy steel targets. Start with mag inserted in both rifle and pistol, no round in chamber. Shotgun stoked.

 

If you want full details on how they run their match (they have had a number of them), you can reach out to Judge Menday Coming at the Cabs.  DM me for contact info.
 

 

11274F29-C3EA-4974-B03B-9998ED5DCFCE.jpeg

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17 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

Is that really an issue?  We are shootists after all.    I mean, I don't have a Glock, but I do have many other autoloading pistols, and I am sure I could handle one safely.  And I do have an AR.  I can't be the only Cowboy shooter who also has modern guns in his collection.

That said, I can believe the cops not being firearms enthusiasts.  

You are not the only cowboy with modern guns. ;) It would appear that if a person did not know how to work a Glock/AR/etc,  they could go to a side range and get a 10 min once over, good enough to have lots of fun at the match, which is why we do this???

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19 hours ago, Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L said:

Hardest part is getting the Cops to come out and play.  Like the rest of the population, they are not all "Gun Guys/Gals", most of them only fire their side-arms for yearly qualification.  We had one Cop show up a few years ago that had never fired a shotgun in their life.  We helped them out with a loaner...

 

Understatement of the year. I put on 4 Cops vs Cowboys matches and I am a cop. I had difficulty getting them to come out. SWAT will NOT come...trust me. They don't want to be made to look foolish getting beat by some old codgers shooting 130 year old guns.

 

 

 

 

For our matches we did pistol mags with 5 rounds each, one being chambered on the line then holstered. I didn't want the cops doing something outside of their training. The AR-15 had the mag loaded with 10 rounds and in the gun, but no round chambered. The shotgun was stoked with the correct number of rounds for the stage, not chambered with extra rounds staged or on their person for any makeups. I never ran more than 4 shotgun on a stage as that is usually the max some LEO shotguns will hold.  

 

My club had 1/2 inch AR500 steel targets so we had the cops shoot steel with the pistols just like the cowboys. We alternated steel and cardboard for the rifle so it was evenly spaced (the cardboard being slightly larger). The shotgun we just required AAs low recoil and used the same targets. 

 

As for stages I wrote 2 that were cowboy friendly, 2 that were cop friendly, and 2 that were mixed.

 

If you can get the attendance these matches are a blast to run and shoot.

 

JEL

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16 hours ago, DeaconKC said:

That's called "Zoot Shooting" :D

Zoot is a lot of fun!   I go by "Uriah the Inkblot" in that world.

 

Had a lot of fun at one match, using a Broomhandle Mauser as my pistol, another Broomhandle with a fixed 30 round mag and shoulderstock as my rifle, a Colt Detective Special as my "snubby" and a Browning Auto 5 as the my shotgun.  That was a hoots worth of fun.

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20 hours ago, Preacherman said:

Instead of 5.56 AR, shoot pistol caliber carbines, 9mm, 45ACP. That's what we did once. They can shoot their duty guns and any Shotgun. Fun, fun and we mostly beat them with our cowboy guns!

Exactly what we did at our club. All the money was donated to the Ohio Rescue Dog association, which is all volunteers. I’d say pick a good charity and make it a charity shoot! 

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Thanks to Dogmeat and the others, certainly got some ideas. Cops here are nowhere near as friendly as your cops over there, but we have a bunch that train at our club so we'll see if I can get anything off the ground. But I'm not holding breath at this stage..

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  • 2 weeks later...

We started with all cowboy stages, but we beat the cops badly.  After that we had six stages, three designed by cowboys and three by cops.  That evened it out pretty good.  The cop stages we could stoke the '97's.  The cowboy stages the cops had to load shotguns on the clock.  Pistols limited to 5 rounds, mags in and charged at the line.  We tried to get cops from State, city, county, and border patrol.

The cops trying to load the shotguns evened out with cowboys trying to hit 50 yard rifle targets:D

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Several of our cowboy shooters are police and most of them competed in that category. Cop mags are limited to 5 rounds, but they use their duty weapons (with ammo provided by club) to shoot cardboard targets above cowboy steel targets. Cops enter free, and cowboy fees support police charities.

 

I missed this year’s competition (in November) but I.believe the Cops are leading 3-1 at the Tejas Caballeros.

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