Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 She is now living in NYC and is a US Citizen. of course we must stay out of the fight. But the next front is the Baltics which are NATO. Neighborhoods are burning and people are taking shelter in subway stations. I think only three cities have subways. I texted with another friend who is in Ukr who wants help getting out of the country. It is not possible to send help, all the ATMs have been depleted and the borders are already packed with refugees. Even folks in Crimea which is in Russian hands and not part of the fight want to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Please continue to share whatever you can. I trust you and your friends’ perspective more than any other news source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted February 26, 2022 Author Share Posted February 26, 2022 A short history lesson here. Ukraine, especially Western Ukraine Has bounced back and forth between Empires for centuries even millennia. That was when it was “the Ukraine”, just a territory up for grabs. It was part of the Polish Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Russian Empire, then Poland, after WWI, then USSR from the secret protocols of the Malenkov-Ribbentrop treaty. Remember the Charge of the Light Brigade? When the British Empire made a grab for Crimea and lost? Stalin had policies which would eradicate Ukrainians and make land and homes available for Russians, not all that different from Hitler’s lebensraum policies. The famine genocide of the 30s, Holodomor. In WW2 Ukrainian divisions were sent in ahead of Russian divisions. After WW2 the Tatars were deported from Crimea to Siberia. Stalin thought they had collaborated with the Nazis, he was probably right, they hated Stalin more than Hitler. The Tatars were the remnants of Genghis Khan’s empire. under Stalin official documents could be in any of two or more languages, depending on the population, but Polish was banned for usage anywhere. So, in the modern times. Ukraine is a sovereign nation, no longer “the Ukraine” a territory up for grabs a few years ago, Afghanis and Sudanese got to the Polish border and were beaten back with Batons. Now the refugees at the Polish border are greeted as countrymen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 198 civilians dead including 3 children, Putin is a demon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 12 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: 198 civilians dead including 3 children, Putin is a demon! That total will go up, way up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Cypress Sun said: That total will go up, way up. Of course it will! Sad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 Fox had a Ukranian official saying over 1,000 Russian soldiers have been KIA. A report last night claimed that a Ukranian pilot nicknamed "MiG 31 Ghost" had shot down two (2) large Russian IL-??? transports, killing 500 Russian paratroopers. On an island, three Ukrainians were ordered to surrender by a Russian ship. The reply was, "Russian ship, go ---k yourself!" The Russian ship fired on the island, killing the Ukrainian troops! A Ukrainian Marine carried explosive charges to a bridge. With approaching Russian troops, he could not escape the explosion that took down the bridge. I don't know if Ukraine has a MOH, but this troop deserves to be awarded one posthumously! There have been instructions at various police stations...on how to make Molotov cocktails! What concerns me is the threats against the Baltic states that Putin has implied. Since these states are NATO members, if he is nuts enough (which he may be) we could be seeing World War III (or IV, depending on your count)! Hopefully, some of his "inner circles" will get alarmed enough to remove him from power, the way Khruscev was removed after the Cuban missile crisis...maybe a nice dacha someplace without communication to the outside world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 I think Putin thought this would be a modern Blitzkrieg and the Ukrainians would gold like wet cardboard. He was wrong. And I think he underestimated the international response. And protests are growing in Russia. The Dutch just announced they are sending 400 anti tank missies and Stingers. We have been sending Javelins since 2017. I wouldn’t put much stock in casualty numbers announced from either side right now. Let the record show that I do not drink Russian Vodka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted February 26, 2022 Author Share Posted February 26, 2022 19 minutes ago, Trailrider #896 said: On an island, three Ukrainians were ordered to surrender by a Russian ship. The reply was, "Russian ship, go ---k yourself!" The Russian ship fired on the island, killing the Ukrainian troops! A Ukrainian Marine carried explosive charges to a bridge. With approaching Russian troops, he could not escape the explosion that took down the bridge. I don't know if Ukraine has a MOH, but this troop deserves to be awarded one posthumously! Google snake island. the medal is Hero of Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Duce Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 Very interesting stance to take... "We shouldn't be involved unless they attack more allies". They've already attacked a sovereign nation. Killing innocent people. I don't think the U.S. needs to involve themselves in everything, but there is a moral necessity especially when a country is being bullied and destroyed. One way or another the U.S. is going to get involved. If you don't think it'll happen, you haven't been paying attention to history. The question is when. Will it be our terms or forced on us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted February 26, 2022 Author Share Posted February 26, 2022 8 minutes ago, Primus Palus said: Very interesting stance to take... "We shouldn't be involved unless they attack more allies". The operative words are “more allies “. They were never an ally. But we did send equipment and trainers, I think it was special forces. Now the Ukr Army is much stronger and better trained than it was in 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 30 minutes ago, Primus Palus said: Very interesting stance to take... "We shouldn't be involved unless they attack more allies". They've already attacked a sovereign nation. Killing innocent people. I don't think the U.S. needs to involve themselves in everything, but there is a moral necessity especially when a country is being bullied and destroyed. One way or another the U.S. is going to get involved. If you don't think it'll happen, you haven't been paying attention to history. The question is when. Will it be our terms or forced on us? You don't mean something like the sinking of the Lusitania? Or Dec. 7, 1941? Or 9/11/2001? One thing we need to do is resume construction of Keystone pipeline, and resume drilling for oil and natural gas in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 A bill to that effect could be introduced in Congress in a matter of hours. It would be interesting to see who might vote against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 This is a bit depressing to read - With the war in Ukraine, US resolve is crucial — and yet we can see the sunset on the American century https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-27/war-on-ukraine-where-did-americas-great-power-go/100859774 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowderRiverCowboy Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 5 hours ago, Trailrider #896 said: Fox had a Ukranian official saying over 1,000 Russian soldiers have been KIA. A report last night claimed that a Ukranian pilot nicknamed "MiG 31 Ghost" had shot down two (2) large Russian IL-??? transports, killing 500 Russian paratroopers. On an island, three Ukrainians were ordered to surrender by a Russian ship. The reply was, "Russian ship, go ---k yourself!" The Russian ship fired on the island, killing the Ukrainian troops! A Ukrainian Marine carried explosive charges to a bridge. With approaching Russian troops, he could not escape the explosion that took down the bridge. I don't know if Ukraine has a MOH, but this troop deserves to be awarded one posthumously! There have been instructions at various police stations...on how to make Molotov cocktails! What concerns me is the threats against the Baltic states that Putin has implied. Since these states are NATO members, if he is nuts enough (which he may be) we could be seeing World War III (or IV, depending on your count)! Hopefully, some of his "inner circles" will get alarmed enough to remove him from power, the way Khruscev was removed after the Cuban missile crisis...maybe a nice dacha someplace without communication to the outside world. That’s been proven false this is a huge propaganda war also , both sides are wrong . Media is playing to distract you when you see it in this picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 All wars contain a big element of propaganda. Having been involved in one that included routine inflation of body counts, I discount the numbers given by both sides here. The media generally isn't at fault as long as they say where the numbers came from. Belief in those numbers is another thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 7 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said: I think Putin thought this would be a modern Blitzkrieg and the Ukrainians would gold like wet cardboard. He was wrong. Hope so. The Nazi blitzkrieg against France took six weeks, and there was more resistance in the early days than is much remembered. Time will tell, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 56 minutes ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said: Hope so. The Nazi blitzkrieg against France took six weeks, and there was more resistance in the early days than is much remembered. Time will tell, I guess. The French initially had much better armor than the Germans. But much worse leadership unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 The (forgotten) lesson taught by Neville Chamberlain is coming back to the forefront today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Our Prime Minister has just announced that Australia will be sending 'lethal aid' to Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linn Keller, SASS 27332, BOLD 103 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 A shortwave listening group lists Russian bomber frequency as 8.131 USB (upper sideband) and also posted a photo of a frequency list taken from a Russian soldier. I do not reckon to put much faith in this list, interesting though it is: Russia is a past master at misdirection and deception. Nor do I trust much by way of media reports: "The first duty of the news in wartime is to mislead the enemy: its second duty is to reassure the populace. "Seldom if ever will there be a small residuum of fact." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 17 hours ago, Buckshot Bear said: This is a bit depressing to read - With the war in Ukraine, US resolve is crucial — and yet we can see the sunset on the American century https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-27/war-on-ukraine-where-did-americas-great-power-go/100859774 The author was very wrong about China, there was no way a communist China was going accept a secondary position to the US or the West. The West probably should have done more to get Russia "included" in Europe, but that's a two way street and I don't think the Russians have ever been able to accept that they are no longer a global power. Without their nuclear weapons and energy supplies, they could be considered a third world country. Since Hiroshima and Nagasaki the world's nuclear powers have never directly engaged each other in war*. It's only been done through proxies. The last thing we want is a direct confrontation between NATO and Russia where we back Putin into a corner. Prior to the invasion of Ukraine I had considered Putin to be intelligent and rational, but now I question that assessment (or I'm missing a key piece to the puzzle). Unfortunately right now I think Putin would use nuclear missiles if backed into a corner. Putin's is behaving as if he has nothing to lose right now. *Communist China did not become a nuclear power until 1964. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 9 hours ago, bgavin said: The (forgotten) lesson taught by Neville Chamberlain is coming back to the forefront today. Chamberlain didn't have much of a choice, the British & French militaries were in no shape for war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Or, Chamberlain was an utter fool of the Biden caliber. Either way, appeasement is appeasement. Feeding the crocodile while hoping that he eats you last, is a fools errand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 What is really concerning is Putin raising the alert level of his nuclear forces!. If he is really off the rails, and thinks he can divert attention from Ukraine by threatening (or worse) the Baltic states with tactical nukes, we could be on the brink of WWIII! I hope some of his "inner circle" can get up the courage to remove him from power! They have much to lose if he goes nuclear. So do we! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 5 hours ago, Chantry said: Chamberlain didn't have much of a choice, the British & French militaries were in no shape for war The French were in pretty good shape…..to fight WW1 over again. But Germany decided to use modern tactics. Oops. The French actually had invested a lot in tank development over the years and had superior armor at the start of the war. But they were wasted by incompetent command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 15 hours ago, Buckshot Bear said: Our Prime Minister has just announced that Australia will be sending 'lethal aid' to Ukraine. Including Fosters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 53 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said: Including Fosters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Utah Bob #35998 said: Including Fosters? Only need to send Fosters ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted February 27, 2022 Author Share Posted February 27, 2022 9 minutes ago, Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 said: Only need to send Fosters ........... You want to kill Ukrainians? Or is the idea to booby trap them in put them in the path of thee Russkiys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 .......... shhhhhhh! .....(they ARE the booby trap) ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Utah Bob #35998 said: Including Fosters? Each with a shot of Vodka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted February 27, 2022 Author Share Posted February 27, 2022 9 minutes ago, Buckshot Bear said: Each with a shot of Vodka Ммммм, водка! in Ukraine, gorilka, горілка Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Remember the Alamo! Remember Snake Island! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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