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APP shelf life? Info added


Cahawbakid

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I have been told that it will smell bad.  I think it smells kind of bad, anyway?  So I don't know.  I recently finished up a bottle that I had opened in 2013, and it went bang and smoked.  

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I have never had a problem with any other then clumps that brake up easily .

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Sitting it tends to clump up. The easiest fix for this is to pour about 1/2 the bottle into an empty powder bottle. Re-close both bottles and shake them until the clumps are broken up. To make sure no clumps get by I line the bottom of  large funnel with wire mesh with holes that are approximately 1/8th to 3/16 across. Pour the powder into my powder measure through this screen. It catches any clumps and the little desiccant packs.

 

The mesh I use came from an old gutter cover that found.

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My APP shelf life is directly proportional to the amount of primers and/or percussion caps that I have on hand.

:rolleyes:

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12 hours ago, Cahawbakid said:

I have several pounds of App that have been stored in ammo cans for several years, I don’t recall how many.

 

What is the shelf life, will it go bad?

 

Type your question into Google for some different perspectives an APP.

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Well, all I can tell you is that I bought 11# a couple years ago from a friend who got it from a friend, origin unknown. It was unopened, black plastic lids while the new stuff that I have has white metal lids. There are no dates or lot #'s on this stuff. Anyway, the first time that I loaded up a batch of ammo and shot it in my Old Armys it was a disaster. I chronographed my original recipes so as to know what goes on. It shot about 1/2 the feet per second as the fresh stuff. After a lot of messing around and experimenting I can use it if I increase the charge by 1/3 or so. I'm trying to use it up mostly in shotshells. I should probably just throw it away and move on, but I'm stubborn. That's my experience, so I get nervous if it starts to get old. I'm sure that storage conditions affect it a lot.

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Preacherman's experience is not unusual.  Look at some of the reports on the Internet.  APP has varied a lot over the years.  It went from light gray to dark grey and then from light tan to dark tan and now it is black.  Some of the old stuff had so many fines it was like trying to shoot flower.  OP depends on how old your batch is.  If it is unsealed full bottles stored in a dry place it will be quite different than a half opened bottle in an area with high humidity.  Only way to tell is to try it.  Unfired APP draws water like a magnet.  I live in Arizona with very low humidity.  After loading APP I usually take compressed air and blow off the press and the dies.  I forgot one time and a couple of days later the powder drop tube was rusted solid in my Dillon powder die.  The newer "black" APP is not nearly as bad as the old stuff.

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How about shelf life of rounds loaded with APP?

 

I've got some on the way from Scarlett.  Never used it before, so I'm curious.  I usually do the bulk of my reloading through the winter months.  While I do try to follow the First-In/First-Out rule, I sometimes lose track of things and might find some rounds that are a couple of years old.

 

Not trying to hijack this thread, but thought it was pertinent here.

 

Thanks!

 

--Doc Altman

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8 minutes ago, Doc Altman SASS#74468 said:

How about shelf life of rounds loaded with APP?

 

I've got some on the way from Scarlett.  Never used it before, so I'm curious.  I usually do the bulk of my reloading through the winter months.  While I do try to follow the First-In/First-Out rule, I sometimes lose track of things and might find some rounds that are a couple of years old.

 

Not trying to hijack this thread, but thought it was pertinent here.

 

Thanks!

 

--Doc Altman

 

I am shooting 38 special rounds loaded at least 2 years ago with powder that was 3 years old when I loaded them. They all go bang with no issues. 

 

Caveats: I don't leave the bottles open any longer than it takes to pour it into the powder measure. I load the entire bottle worth in one session. Most times I load at least two bottles worth during a loading session.

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I was conversing with a fellow SASS shooter about using APP. He told me that he had switched to real BP (FFG) in his Ruger Old Army. He likes to test all of the aspects of Frontiersman. He stated that he had a delayed ignition with the APP and caused a miss. He lost a clean match at a major shoot due to that. He does not lube the cylinders just cleans with windex with vinegar after each stage and a barrel swap after three or four stages . No fiber wad used.  Of course, the cylinder pin is lubed.

I wonder if APP is more inclined to absorb moisture as compared to real Black. I know that I have had a few cases where the APP has not ignited with a remington 10 cap when the humidity has been high or in rainy weather? I make sure that the caps are very firmly seated so I know that was not the cause of the misfire.

APP is certainly easy to use and clean up!

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2 hours ago, Marshal Fire, SASS 10064 said:

I was conversing with a fellow SASS shooter about using APP. He told me that he had switched to real BP (FFG) in his Ruger Old Army. He likes to test all of the aspects of Frontiersman. He stated that he had a delayed ignition with the APP and caused a miss. He lost a clean match at a major shoot due to that. He does not lube the cylinders just cleans with windex with vinegar after each stage and a barrel swap after three or four stages . No fiber wad used.  Of course, the cylinder pin is lubed.

I wonder if APP is more inclined to absorb moisture as compared to real Black. I know that I have had a few cases where the APP has not ignited with a remington 10 cap when the humidity has been high or in rainy weather? I make sure that the caps are very firmly seated so I know that was not the cause of the misfire.

APP is certainly easy to use and clean up!

I notice that APP and some other subs are sold with desiccant packs in the bottles while real black powder is not.  Those packs send me a clear message - the powder is hydroscopic.  I will shoot the Plainsman at EOT and will shoot real black powder in my ROAs.  The occasional delayed ignition from subs is frustrating.

 

Regarding cartridges loaded with APP, I am loading my wife's handgun rounds with APP for EOT right now.  After loading they will be stored in a sealed ammo box with a big desiccant pack and only removed the day they will be shot.  I will shoot real black powder and do not have concerns about it getting squibby due to absorbed moisture.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

I notice that APP and some other subs are sold with desiccant packs in the bottles while real black powder is not.

 

 

Sometimes there is only one pack in a bottle, other times as many as three.  Real pain in the neck if you miss one and they fall in the measure and you don't notice.  I picked up one of these to put on the top of the Dillon measure when dumping in the powder.  Fits in place of the original cap.  Then the cap sits on top of this.

 

DSC_0002.thumb.jpeg.eb471711960e0d76ecb7d58a44c2d54e.jpeg

 

DSC_0002.thumb.jpeg.22c129de38d46bb164d35e1b2c049073.jpeg

 

 

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1 hour ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

 

 

Sometimes there is only one pack in a bottle, other times as many as three.  Real pain in the neck if you miss one and they fall in the measure and you don't notice.  I picked up one of these to put on the top of the Dillon measure when dumping in the powder.  Fits in place of the original cap.  Then the cap sits on top of this.

 

DSC_0002.thumb.jpeg.eb471711960e0d76ecb7d58a44c2d54e.jpeg

 

DSC_0002.thumb.jpeg.22c129de38d46bb164d35e1b2c049073.jpeg

 

 

I like/need that!

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Google found them on my first try.  They are made by Entirely Crimson.  Various vendors sell them for $20-25.  You can get them in raw aluminum or anodized blue to match your blue press.  Also available for RCBS and Hornady powder hoppers.

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17 hours ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

I notice that APP and some other subs are sold with desiccant packs in the bottles while real black powder is not.  Those packs send me a clear message - the powder is hydroscopic.  I will shoot the Plainsman at EOT and will shoot real black powder in my ROAs.  The occasional delayed ignition from subs is frustrating.

 

Regarding cartridges loaded with APP, I am loading my wife's handgun rounds with APP for EOT right now.  After loading they will be stored in a sealed ammo box with a big desiccant pack and only removed the day they will be shot.  I will shoot real black powder and do not have concerns about it getting squibby due to absorbed moisture.

 

 

Is delayed ignition a real concern with using APP in cartridges?

I can see that being a deal breaker for me.

 

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I have never experienced delayed ignition in cartridges freshly loaded with APP or other subs.  I think that primers in cartridges put more flame on the powder than percussion caps resulting in more positive ignition.  You can shoot APP in cartridges with confidence.  However, be concerned about long-term storage in high humidity. 

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I have some APP loaded into 38 cartridges that are five and six years old. I don't live in an area that has high humidity. Never had an issue with any of my reloads with APP. I always keep the containers covered until needed for loading. As our friend Canby has said the primer used (often a mag primer) produces a better ignition flame than the percussion cap. In addition, the loading process and the way the powder is exposed in often an outdoor environment for the loading of a cap and ball does have the potential to expose the powder to moisture, that added to the ignition process of the cap and ball one would think that the odds of a hang fire or misfire are greater. 

Myself, I like the APP for the cartridge guns for SASS. The cleanup and ease of loading (Dillon Press) are sure a blessing. For my cap and ball, I am looking more at the real BP. Time will tell if I experience the same misfires.

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On 2/5/2022 at 10:09 AM, Doc Altman SASS#74468 said:

Is delayed ignition a real concern with using APP in cartridges?

I can see that being a deal breaker for me.

 

No. I’ve been shooting (and selling - full disclosure) APP for three + years and this thread is the FIRST time I’ve heard of a delayed ignition. I’ve heard of clumping and all sorts of other complaints and intricacies of APP  - some real and some rumor and all that. I talked to Brett last night (owner of APP) and he said that the icons on the labels were added in the mid-2000s - Will have to confirm date. But I’ve never seen a plastic lid @Preacherman - and you and I talked about your situation. 
 

Supply chain issues have caused some “flexibility” in bottle color (now black AND white) and cap color (now Gold AND white both metal).  Mark the date on your lids when you get it. See for yourself. @Confederate Colt has some APP that he’s actually seeing HOW OLD the powder can be and still fire… He’s on several years now and still going BOOM! :ph34r:
 

@Doc Altman SASS#74468 (and anyone else) if you buy APP from me and have issues, let me know! I, and APP, will make it right!

 

I sell and shoot APP because 1) It’s what I started with and I use everything I sell without exception. 2) it’s a propellant and not an explosive like real BP.  I could not travel with BP, store it in my shop without a magazine. 3) After a lot of conversation and some “show me” (and I did :wub:) Brett agreed to let me be his SASS APP rep. I will have 400 pound of APP at EOT and it will be at my booth - for sale. When I was at WR 2020, the Goex booth had a table with a table cloth. The powder was in a magazine off range. I am NOT knocking or disparaging real BP just explaining why I shoot and sell APP.

 

Hugs!

 

Scarlett

 

99A5E4E0-10B3-4EF4-B1A7-7A51736ED398.thumb.jpeg.611a725f04ebcb80a922db6023133182.jpeg

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The powder that I am currently using is 3+ years old and I have no issues with it. I always run my powder through some kind of strainer to break up the clumps rather its old powder, new powder, smokeless or black. 

 

 

On 2/5/2022 at 10:09 AM, Doc Altman SASS#74468 said:

Is delayed ignition a real concern with using APP in cartridges?

I can see that being a deal breaker for me.

 

 

Not in cartridges. Only cap n balls sometime have a problem due to humidly or rain.

 

On 2/4/2022 at 12:21 PM, Doc Altman SASS#74468 said:

How about shelf life of rounds loaded with APP?

 

I've got some on the way from Scarlett.  Never used it before, so I'm curious.  I usually do the bulk of my reloading through the winter months.  While I do try to follow the First-In/First-Out rule, I sometimes lose track of things and might find some rounds that are a couple of years old.

 

Not trying to hijack this thread, but thought it was pertinent here.

 

Thanks!

 

--Doc Altman

 

I have shot ammo that has been loaded for up to a hear and a half. I typically don't have any rounds that hand around longer then that.

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  • Cahawbakid changed the title to APP shelf life? Info added

Well, I’m still not sure about it’s exact shelf, but it’s at least this long. This bottle is OLD.

 

I loaded 10 rounds today 45CS, Federal Lp primer,1.3 cc by volume.

 

I didn’t put them across the Chrono but they were consistent and snappy no Puffffffff on any of them

036638AA-22BF-4294-BF3C-F7697BB70FBA.jpeg

A886BE50-0421-4ACD-B030-17E79BFD3727.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Cahawbakid said:

Well, I’m still not sure about it’s exact shelf, but it’s at least this long. This bottle is OLD.

 

I loaded 10 rounds today 45CS, Federal Lp primer,1.3 cc by volume.

 

I didn’t put them across the Chrono but they were consistent and snappy no Puffffffff on any of them

036638AA-22BF-4294-BF3C-F7697BB70FBA.jpeg

A886BE50-0421-4ACD-B030-17E79BFD3727.jpeg

 

That is not APP it is the old Clean Shot.  So it is old.

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APP OWNS the name Clean Shot and it was what is now APP… chemical components etc may not be exact.  Those OLD bottles ought not confuse anyone. ShootersWorld Clean Shot SMOKELESS powder, imported from Czech Republic, manufactured by Lovex, has been around for 6 years.

 

Picture of one pound jar for reference.  Info below jar is from Midsouth Shooter Supply website. 
 

Hugs! 
 

Scarlett

 

PS FULL disclosure… I am a distributor for Shooters World and the SASS Rep for APP. 

 

5A8E7953-9D5E-41A9-B7B3-7A363B5D3C81.thumb.png.8bd755d2018c80e435162a931231ad49.png

NOTE* Shooters World LLC imports, distributes and supports Lovex propellants in the United States. Reloading data has been generated both with European CIP and American SAAMI methods. Both organizations recognize mutual safety in the assessment of pressures and velocities, despite their different methods. When loading with Shooters World propellants, please utilize only data published by Shooters World LLC or Lovex. Comparisons to other propellants are meant strictly to convey relative burn rates, and have no bearing upon specific recipes. All available reloading data may be found by following the links below, highlighted in RED. 

 

 

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