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Alpo

Police Procedure ?

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I had a dream.

 

My house was being burgled while I was sitting on the porcelain throne. And I stepped out naked with a pistol in my hand and shot the burglar.

 

Then, as dreams so often do, it was no longer a burglary but was a home invasion by the rioters. And I continued shooting them.

 

Six or seven corpses in the hallway.

 

The police come, and want the guns that I shot them with.

 

That made perfect sense. Evidence in a shooting.

 

But then they saw that they were other guns in the house, and announced that they were going to take them also. I told them I did not think so, and just as we were getting into it I woke up.

 

And my question.

 

If I shot someone in my house, would the police want to take all the guns, or just the one that was used in the shooting?

 

What is standard procedure?

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Posted (edited)

Depends.  Are you baked when the police show up?  Could be indecent exposure ‘cuz they don’t like what they see.

Edited by South-Eye Ned
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What's in the envelope? Emergency use gun?

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I also wondered about the envelope.

 

If the recommendation was "leave a package with your lawyer", then that would make sense. A gun, ammunition, a holster.

 

But an envelope?

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Alpo said:

I also wondered about the envelope.

 

If the recommendation was "leave a package with your lawyer", then that would make sense. A gun, ammunition, a holster.

 

But an envelope?

A sealed envelope with unspecified contents. Possibly bulky and weighing five or six pounds..

Edited by Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984

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Don't worry about a lawyer. Get an agent and a producer and get that TV show or Blog, "Inside the mind of Alpo," on the air, now!

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Normal would be only weapon that was used. But, since we are dealing with Alpo, not only all your guns + safe ifen you didn't open it. Your dog also.

Now, it's always good info to have a few guns stored at your buddies vault. Never, and I repeat NEVER give a gun of yours to any attorney. They seem to show up at major murder scenes. And did I mention NEVER GIVE ONE OF YOUR GUNS TO AN ATTORNEY. 

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3 hours ago, Alpo said:

I had a dream.

 

My house was being burgled while I was sitting on the porcelain throne. And I stepped out naked with a pistol in my hand and shot the burglar.

That is something I would never want to see:o

 

Then, as dreams so often do, it was no longer a burglary but was a home invasion by the rioters. And I continued shooting them.

 

Six or seven corpses in the hallway. Also referred to as the "fatal funnel"

 

The police come, and want the guns that I shot them with.

 

That made perfect sense. Evidence in a shooting.

 

But then they saw that they were other guns in the house, and announced that they were going to take them also. I told them I did not think so, and just as we were getting into it I woke up.

 

And my question.

 

If I shot someone in my house, would the police want to take all the guns, or just the one that was used in the shooting? To match the ballistics to see for sure which guns were used

 

What is standard procedure? 

 

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3 hours ago, South-Eye Ned said:

Depends.  Are you baked when the police show up?  Could be indecent exposure ‘cuz they don’t like what they see.


I don’t know about that.  Doesn’t Alpo live in San Francisco?  :rolleyes:  
Besides, we often wind up naked in our dreams.  Why IS that??

 

Call your attorney, if possible.  The officers usually have no legitimate reason to take your other weapons, as long as you are honest and truthful with them.  Also, tell them you do not submit to a general search of your home, confiscation of any other of your personal property, and state you won’t answer questions not specifically and/or directly related to the incident.  Don’t even show them your other guns, and don’t allow them to touch, handle or otherwise inspect your other guns or personal property .  Don’t leave the officers alone in your home.  


Remain calm, courteous and respectful with all the officers.  They need your interaction.  It will take a few hours to get through a situation such as you describe.  There will be a number of officers and maybe some tech-types there for a while, and it will tire you out....them too, I reckon.

 

 Cat Brules

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9 minutes ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

To match the ballistics to see for sure which guns were used

In one of the Badge of Honor series, this cop was murdered, and his wife had left him and moved in with another cop, so cop number two was the obvious suspect. Ballistics had already shown that he was shot with a 38. They are interrogating cop 2.

 

Do you have a 38?

 

Yes I have my issued Smith & Wesson and a privately owned Colt detective Special.

 

Do you object to our running ballistics on them?

 

No objection.

 

Do you own any other guns?

 

22 pistol, 45 automatic, 12 gauge shotgun, 30/06 deer rifle.

 

Do you object to our running ballistics on these other guns?

 

 

And I'm sitting there thinking WHY?????

 

He told them to go ahead. I would have told them hell no. It just seemed so idiotic.

 

I defend myself with a 9 mm, and they are going to do ballistics on my 22 short gallery rifle, my M1 garand, my 375 H&H elephant rifle, had my 45/70 buffalo gun.

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And don't let them read any of your posts in the SALOON! You're screwed for sure if you do.

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Gorilla 1.jpg

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"He told them to go ahead. I would have told them hell no. It just seemed so idiotic. "

 

Agreed. Let a judge issue a warrant. Which I doubt would happen.

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If this shooting happens in your house, any detective worth his salt will obtain a search warrant for the scene prior to crime scene processing.  Once the survivors have been cleared out and the scene secured, everything stops until the search warrant is in hand.  The scope of the search warrant will determine if they can get into your gun safe.

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2 hours ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

If THIS is what you look like on the throne....

I got more hair on my chest, and less on my head, but yeah, that's pretty close.

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They'll have to break into the safe.  I'm not going to open it for them. 

 

Are we talking about what's normal or worst case scenario?  Because I would expect normally the cops wouldn't even take the gun you used.  Wouldn't the preliminary investigation have to turn up something fishy before they'd even start thinking along those lines?  Like do they think you found a bunch of dead people elsewhere and dragged them into your house? 

 

We had a shooting in Houston last year I think where cops got shot and HPD never even did a forensic analysis to find out who was shooting.  If you're not going to do that for an officer involved shooting, I don't see why you'd do it in a clear cut case of self defense in your own house. 

 

The rioter's guns is all I would expect them to take.  We have lotsa cops here, tell me why I'm wrong. 

 

My question in this scenario is; what are the odds of me winding up with the rioter's guns as trophies? 

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Posted (edited)

My question in this scenario is; what are the odds of me winding up with the rioter's guns as trophies?

Given to you by the court? 0%

Taken by you before the police arrive? Bad idea. Very bad idea

Edited by Marshal Chance Morgun

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I was involved in investigating a number of officer involved shootings.  The procedure was to have the officer go to headquarters and I take his Glock and issue him another one.  We did not disarm the officer in the field and we got the officer away from the scene as soon as practical.   He was on paid admin leave until we finished the investigation, usually at least 3 days.  Before returning to active duty, he had to go visit the shrink and he was required to go qualify at our range with his newly issued Glock.  He never got the original Glock back.  It was usually in the evidence room for at least 2 years to see if there were any civil suits filed.  Eventually, the original Glock would be issued to a recruit as his duty weapon.  Our Glocks were replaced every 10 years.  

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4 minutes ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

I was involved in investigating a number of officer involved shootings.  The procedure was to have the officer go to headquarters and I take his Glock and issue him another one.  We did not disarm the officer in the field and we got the officer away from the scene as soon as practical.   He was on paid admin leave until we finished the investigation, usually at least 3 days.  Before returning to active duty, he had to go visit the shrink and he was required to go qualify at our range with his newly issued Glock.  He never got the original Glock back.  It was usually in the evidence room for at least 2 years to see if there were any civil suits filed.  Eventually, the original Glock would be issued to a recruit as his duty weapon.  Our Glocks were replaced every 10 years.  

I keep a spare department pistol at my house, and in my desk, along with ammo and mags.  If an officer is involved in a shooting incident, I carry one of those to him, along with an equipment form to show the transfer and serial numbers of both guns.

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19 hours ago, LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L said:

I keep a spare department pistol at my house, and in my desk, along with ammo and mags.  If an officer is involved in a shooting incident, I carry one of those to him, along with an equipment form to show the transfer and serial numbers of both guns.

All well and good if the question was how you handle a police involved shooting. The question is how is a CIVILIAN treated. I'm sure you don't take his weapon and issue him one of your spare glocks. Are all his weapons confiscated? Just the one used in the shooting? Only if he is arrested? What is the "standard" procedure?

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32 minutes ago, Ranger Dan said:

All well and good if the question was how you handle a police involved shooting. The question is how is a CIVILIAN treated. I'm sure you don't take his weapon and issue him one of your spare glocks. Are all his weapons confiscated? Just the one used in the shooting? Only if he is arrested? What is the "standard" procedure?

Well, now that you bring it up...I was replying to Badlands Bob about departmental policy.  Not about what to do with a civilian at the scene of a shooting.  Departmental policy is spelled out to the officers and they know what to expect.

 

As for a civilian shooting, even if looks justified on the face, the "standard procedure" is to obtain a search warrant signed by a judge with jurisdictional authority, (4th amendment, don't cha know), which will spell out the area to be searched and what may be seized as evidence.  In my 36 plus years, I've never seen a need to seize anything that wasn't direct evidence, so any weapons I didn't consider part of the shooting would absolutely be safe from seizure.    

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I would depend on the circumstances.  The investigating officer and the crime scene technician makes a determination as to what is evidence depending on the situation.  Every case is different so we could "what if" it to death.  I never saw a need to place stuff into evidence that was of no evidentiary value.  It's a lot of paperwork and serves no purpose.

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33 minutes ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

I would depend on the circumstances.  The investigating officer and the crime scene technician makes a determination as to what is evidence depending on the situation.  Every case is different so we could "what if" it to death.  I never saw a need to place stuff into evidence that was of no evidentiary value.  It's a lot of paperwork and serves no purpose.

So it is up to the discretion of the investigating officer as to what is of "evidentiary value". So you "could" take every weapon in the house? The reason I am asking is because that is what the OP asked.  Thanks.

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Yes, you can take every weapon in the house if necessary.  You could also take every knife in the kitchen drawers and dirty clothes out of the hamper.  I've actually removed a 4x8' section of sheetrock off the wall before.    Seizing evidence is not about political correctness or furthering a political agenda.  It's about proving who did what to who.

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Posted (edited)

I would think in a real world scenario would depend on the actual jurisdiction in question, the political views of the current DA, is it also an election year, as well as how the new item is playing out in the local press, and if (Lord forbid) the story took national traction.

 

 

 

Edited by Red Eye Jim

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If it's a Hells Angels meth lab, I'm seizing every gun I find.  Everything is going to the crime lab for ballistic testing.  Like I said, it all depends on the circumstances.

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3 hours ago, Ranger Dan said:

All well and good if the question was how you handle a police involved shooting. The question is how is a CIVILIAN treated. I'm sure you don't take his weapon and issue him one of your spare glocks. Are all his weapons confiscated? Just the one used in the shooting? Only if he is arrested? What is the "standard" procedure?

 

This isn't a WTC were PWB is going to step in and list the answer by quoting the SHB. Each case and each set of circumstances will be different and would need to be handled in that way. 

No need to get riled up about what if's.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

 

This isn't a WTC were PWB is going to step in and list the answer by quoting the SHB. Each case and each set of circumstances will be different and would need to be handled in that way. 

No need to get riled up about what if's.

 

 

Getting a straight answer from PWB is easier than from a LEO sometimes. Given the times and current situations on our streets there have been a lot of self defense uses of firearms. Inquiring minds want to know what happens in an obvious self defense shooting. Apparently there is a "procedure" when it is an officer involved shooting, give him/her a new gun and send em home. The rest of us, not so much, LEO can confiscate whatever they want from the "crime" scene, even if no crime was committed? As in a justified homicide? That is what I am getting from this thread.

 

2 hours ago, Red Eye Jim said:

I would think in a real world scenario would depend on the actual jurisdiction in question, the political views of the current DA, is it also an election year, as well as how the new item is playing out in the local press, and if (Lord forbid) the story took national traction.

 

 

 

I think you are closer to the truth than anyone else.

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13 minutes ago, Ranger Dan said:

Getting a straight answer from PWB is easier than from a LEO sometimes. Given the times and current situations on our streets there have been a lot of self defense uses of firearms. Inquiring minds want to know what happens in an obvious self defense shooting. Apparently there is a "procedure" when it is an officer involved shooting, give him/her a new gun and send em home. The rest of us, not so much, LEO can confiscate whatever they want from the "crime" scene, even if no crime was committed? As in a justified homicide? That is what I am getting from this thread.

 

.

The straight answer has been given. There is "no one size fits all" answer.

 

obvious self defense shooting. Obvious to who?

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On 6/30/2020 at 2:36 PM, Alpo said:

...If I shot someone in my house, would the police want to take all the guns, or just the one that was used in the shooting?...

 

How would the police know which firearm(s) were used until all firearm(s) were tested?  Be a terrible shame if they didn't and learned later that evidence had been compromised.   That failure might you to prison unjustly.

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On 7/1/2020 at 3:43 PM, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

My question in this scenario is; what are the odds of me winding up with the rioter's guns as trophies?

Given to you by the court? 0%

Taken by you before the police arrive? Bad idea. Very bad idea

 

I was thinking along the lines of suing the family afterwards for my pain and suffering and forcing the court to give the weapons to me after I won them in the judgement.  It would be a long affair but the odds have got to be greater than 0. 

 

Actually, if it was any more difficult than asking the cop once the investigation was done I wouldn't bother.  The thing that made me think that way was how often bad guys have really nice guns in movies. 

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