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Shooting Bull

Shooting on the move - Definition?

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10 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

 

I think I'd modify that and say our sport caters to a much wider range of skill levels. 

I can agree with that statement.

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On 1/12/2020 at 8:58 PM, Kirk James said:

Did you stop to shoot or was continuous?  Very fine line with good shooters.  If the shooter has a pause while they shoot, it seems to me they are good.   When it comes to whether or not a shooter was continuous or stopped, I would think the TO is going to gather information to make a decision if one person makes the statement from the gallery or one spotter.  

 

Dear Kirk,

 

Doesn't matter!!!!   WE ARE GOING TO STOP THESE DANG KIDS AND STOP ANY ADVANTAGE OF THE 97! yaaa! :D  I'm NOT A FAST KID AND I SHOOT AN UN-WORKED STOEGER!   just   BECAUSE THEY CAN RUN AND SHOOT FASTER THAN US, AND A 97 SLAM FIRES IN A NANNO SECOND WHILE THESE YOUNG KIDS ARE RUNNING AND HAVE ONE FOOT PLANTED FOR A  NANNO SECOND (as per the rules before they have been clarified several times) ,,,,,,,, WE GONNA STOP IT.........:P  We gonna keep clarifying the rules until we stop it!!  :P As some of the Wild Bunch have been quoted in  the past: "... NEVER SHOULD HAVE ALLOWED 97S IN THE FIRST PLACE" :rolleyes:

 

p.s. We need to get more young people into this game! (but not the fast ones :( )

 

Sorry, but I'm just a little tired of all this horse pucky of re-clarifying the rules, or griping about the rules,  in a manner to take any advantaged away from anyone that does not have my years or my pos  equipment. 

None of this intended to apply to Mr. Kirk James or his family -- just supporting his concerns :D

 

Yes, I probably should wait the count of ten before I post but I'm not gonna :lol:

 

 

 

Edited by Palo Verde, SASS # 56522
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37 minutes ago, Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 said:

 

Yes, I probably should wait the count of ten before I post but I'm not gonna :lol:

 

 

 

Please don't ever do that.  I LOVE your posts. You don't make enough of them. :wub:

 

But I need to know, should that gamer in the OP get a SDQ? B)

Edited by Shooting Bull

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Quote

continuous, fluid movement

 

If that is the ONLY definition of what shooting on the move is, then any noticeable pause by the shooter to take a shot CANNOT be "continuous, fluid movement."    If you see the shooter's movement pause, it's not continuous.

 

I like the "one foot has to remain stationary" (basketball traveling) rule much better.  Because is it SO much easier to call right.  But now, we seem to have two rules that are in competition for what is the right one to use in order to detect illegal movement while shooting.    One of which is pretty concrete (just watch the shooter's stance) and requires little in the way of a subjective decision of "was that enough of a pause?"   :angry:

 

Good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

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One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six, Seven, Eight, Nine, (don't get ahead of me PV), Ten.  Your good!!!!  No offense taken.  

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17 hours ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

 

Please don't ever do that.  I LOVE your posts. You don't make enough of them. :wub:

 

But I need to know, should that gamer in the OP get a SDQ? B)

 

 

A thousand pardons, Sahib. I went sideways, off  the subject, with the rest of the replies. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest my arm pits. :)

 

Not enough info in OP --- SXS? 97? did  he close action while reloading? etc.   More fun going sideways :lol:

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1 minute ago, Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 said:

 

 

A thousand pardons, Sahib. I went sideways, off  the subject, with the rest of the replies. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest my arm pits. :)

 

Not enough info in OP --- SXS? 97? did  he close action while reloading? etc.   More fun going sideways :lol:

 

This is why I love your posts. :lol:

 

SxS.  Action was open while on the move.  Planted one foot firmly, closed action, fired.  The instant the second round was fired, opened action and moved all at the same time. IF the second foot was touching the ground while all this was happening it was barely touching. 

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I just saw this post.

Maybe someone already made mention to what I am about to suggest.

 

Some time back (up to two years ago?) there was a WTC post, showing a shooter with feet planted but upper body in continuous movement.

Maybe someone could repost a link to that video, along with the discussion.

 

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19 hours ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

 

Please don't ever do that.  I LOVE your posts. You don't make enough of them. :wub:

 

But I need to know, should that gamer in the OP get a SDQ? B)

Instant replay has ruined both baseball and football, IMO, but then they are playing for BIG BUCKS.

 

Until then, if the TO Stage DQed you then take your award with pride and don't push the envelope.

If not, consider yourself lucky for living on the edge.

Not much difference than a gunfighter shooting two rounds close or simultaneously.

 

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There was a discussion on WTC on facebook with a video of Ray Heartless sent in by his wife, Mad Dog with a Gun.  It was on continuous movement while shooting.

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On 1/15/2020 at 10:51 AM, Kirk James said:

discussion on WTC on facebook

 

Something I will NEVER visit, sadly.  That Internet company is just too greedy, crooked, security ignorant, arrogant, and eager to sell their users' info, pictures, love lives, internet usage, likes, etc.  IMHProfessionalO (worked on web applications and databases for years)

 

Good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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6 hours ago, Shooting Bull said:

Planted one foot firmly, closed action, fired.  The instant the second round was fired, opened action and moved all at the same time. IF the second foot was touching the ground while all this was happening it was barely touching. 

 

And, Benefit of the Doubt goes to the shooter.  GJ

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9 hours ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

This is why I love your posts. :lol:

 

SxS.  Action was open while on the move.  Planted one foot firmly, closed action, fired.  The instant the second round was fired, opened action and moved all at the same time. IF the second foot was touching the ground while all this was happening it was barely touching. 

Here's a related scenario to think about.   Shooter steps forward with right foot and plants it with SG still open, and with two live rounds in chambers.  After planting right foot, he closes the gun, fires both rounds while stepping forward with left foot.  His upper body never ceases forward motion, but right foot is still planted.  Shooter then (in order) opens action, lifts right foot and steps forward, shucks shells on the fly to next station.  

Gun breech is never closed while right foot is off the ground. 

Very good transition work.  Is it legal? 

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale

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1 hour ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

So now what we're saying is shooters can have only one foot on the ground when they fire a gun!

 

That’s one more than I’ve had on the ground sometimes.:lol:

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18 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

So now what we're saying is shooters can have only one foot on the ground when they fire a gun!

Traveling rule

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21 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Here's a related scenario to think about.   Shooter steps forward with right foot and plants it with SG still open, and with two live rounds in chambers.  After planting right foot, he closes the gun, fires both rounds while stepping forward with left foot.  His upper body never ceases forward motion, but right foot is still planted.  Shooter then (in order) opens action, lifts right foot and steps forward, shucks shells on the fly to next station.  

Gun breech is never closed while right foot is off the ground. 

Very good transition work.  Is it legal? 

 

That is "Step Shooting" and is now illegal in SASS.

- “Shooting on the move” or “step shooting” is expressly disallowed.

SHB Vers 24.1 pg 13

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So again, in order to pull the trigger, both feet must be firmly planted on the ground, shooter can adjust their position using the basketball rule, but can't pull the trigger while doing this!

 

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12 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

So again, in order to pull the trigger, both feet must be firmly planted on the ground

Where does it say that?

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9 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

See McCandless post above.

I could be standing on one foot and shoot all 10 shots and not move anywhere. There is no requirement for me to have both feet on the ground when I pull the trigger.

 

same manner, I could be step shooting or shooting on a continuous movement and be pulling the trigger every time that both feet are on the ground, and I'm breaking the rule.

Edited by Branchwater Jack SASS #88854
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It seems like the step shooting rule relates to time, not motion or actual movement.  I could make the exact same moves the Incredible Mr. Bull did (including shooting with one foot off the ground or barely touching the ground) and nobody would call a penalty as I move through the smoke in slow motion.  I think that is why we are struggling with this.  We know the "intent" of the rules is to not permit shooting on the move yet we still must allow for adjusting to keep your balance (Mr. Bull has an exception as he doesn't care).  If a flawless fast moving shooter does what I do,  it's a penalty.  It seems like we would have to go to a "complete stop, both feet down to close and fire rule" not basketball rule and then make some kind of modification to the adjust rule, like put a distance of X inches around it or you can only adjust after first shot in string from shooting position you are currently in.  SIGH.  It does seem inherently unfair in a timed activity that 2 people can do the exact same thing but if one of them does it faster, it's a penalty.

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2 hours ago, Lou Graham, # 26112 said:

  we still must allow for adjusting to keep your balance (Mr. Bull has an exception as he doesn't care).  

 

I don’t care who you are, that’s funny right there.:lol:

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Have any of the better or top shooters experimented when practicing on a standard stage setup as if full movement were allowed? Without drastically changing the way targets are set up now I don't  think you'd see as dramatic a difference as many believe would occur.

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2 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

Have any of the better or top shooters experimented when practicing on a standard stage setup as if full movement were allowed? Without drastically changing the way targets are set up now I don't  think you'd see as dramatic a difference as many believe would occur.

 

Those top shooters aren’t looking for dramatic differences. They’re trying to shave off tenths and even hundredths of a second. 

Edited by Shooting Bull

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Shooting Bull. That's true. I'm more refering to a drastic change in what it would look like watching them shoot a stage. Would other shooters watching notice much of a difference. It seems like people think that all of a sudden you'd have shooters running full speed ahead while shooting targets. My take is that you'd have to spread out the targets much differently then they are now to see much running and gunning.

Edited by Smokin Gator SASS #29736
Clarrification

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On 1/16/2020 at 3:10 PM, McCandless said:

 

That is "Step Shooting" and is now illegal in SASS.

- “Shooting on the move” or “step shooting” is expressly disallowed.

SHB Vers 24.1 pg 13

 

Found that mention of "shooting on the move or step shooting" in SHB 24.1 pg 13.  But can not find anywhere "shooting on the move or step shooting" are defined or described.

Maybe I just missed something.

Anybody find a definition/description or is that what this thread is about?

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1 hour ago, Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 said:

 

Found that mention of "shooting on the move or step shooting" in SHB 24.1 pg 13.  But can not find anywhere "shooting on the move or step shooting" are defined or described.

Maybe I just missed something.

Anybody find a definition/description or is that what this thread is about?

SHB pg 23

Shooting on the move (continuous, fluid movement while engaging targets)

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2 hours ago, Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 said:

Anybody find a definition/description or is that what this thread is about?

 

It didn’t start out that way but it’s what the thread is about now. 

 

I think I’m safe from ever being bit by this penalty. I’ve never been fluid in my life.:D

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On 1/21/2020 at 3:24 PM, Captain Bill Burt said:

SHB pg 23

Shooting on the move (continuous, fluid movement while engaging targets)

 

Mr. Burt,

Thanks for finding that.---  "Shooting on the move [is] (continuous, fluid movement while engaging targets" 

Now, there is a definition to live by:lol: ! I needed a good laugh.

I'll be watchin' for anybody what shoots in a"fluid movement"

And all this time I thought the goal was to shoot smooth; which most folks might consider kinda "fluidy". :rolleyes:

I guess this could mean, if we are engaging targets with our pistols, our rifle or our shotgun, we should shoot kinda jerky :lol:  Wouldn't want no DQ cause I engaged my pistol targets fluidy.

 

Now, I know it is sometimes hard to express in words what we think we know when we think we see it, but this definition conjures up all sorts of possibilities. :) 

 

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Fluid Movement!  OK.  I'm there.  Fluid movement I'm familiar with.  Usually you can fix it with Ka-0-Pektate.  If it be "Continuous Fluid Movement" it is suggested there be no hindrance to my progress.  Most fluid movement is associated with both feet planted firmly.  Although I do know of occasion when at least one foot was in motion as well.  Messy that was.  Therefore, I'm not really in favor of Continuous Fluid Movement.  Or Fluid Movement.  I think one should be required to take a more SOLID position.  As it twer.

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2 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Fluid Movement!  OK.  I'm there.  Fluid movement I'm familiar with.  Usually you can fix it with Ka-0-Pektate.  If it be "Continuous Fluid Movement" it is suggested there be no hindrance to my progress.  Most fluid movement is associated with both feet planted firmly.  Although I do know of occasion when at least one foot was in motion as well.  Messy that was.  Therefore, I'm not really in favor of Continuous Fluid Movement.  Or Fluid Movement.  I think one should be required to take a more SOLID position.  As it twer.

Actually - I've had instances where a continuous fluid movement took both feet completely off the ground.

 

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16 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

My thread is starting to stink :wacko:

 

No, thread's just fine. It's some of the rules that stink. :)  Perhaps it's one that has been clarified by Pastel Lupus. :lol:

Edited by Palo Verde, SASS # 56522
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