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Graywolf Tate

How to get more noise from my 10 gauge BP loads

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3 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

You may find that a lot of the powder you are putting in may be blown out of the gun, unburnt, already - so additional powder will not accomplish anything.

 

Now, are we shooting raw popcorn IN PLACE of lead shot, or are we putting the popcorn on top of the lead shot?

Overshot card on top of shot and then raw popcorn to fill up the space.

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3 hours ago, Nawlins Kid said:

I've have been a TO to a shooter who has a short barrel 10 ga. who really like his SxS  to go boom. Even standing three ft away to the side with hearing protection it hurt my ears!!! It may be cool to you having a " BIG " boom not so much for other people.

 

STAY away for using Magnesium . Sure it will give you sparks but you can start a fire.  And it there is some wind blowing the wrong way sparks could hit a fellow shooter. The sparks could burn holes in their clothes or land on their skin and your fellow shooters will not be very happy .

 

Nawlins

I too have stood next to this fella, it’s an assault on the ears, I understand his loads have been addressed at a particular club. I seriously believe he’s going to blow up the gun and hurt himself or others. 

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44 minutes ago, Graywolf Tate said:

Overshot card on top of shot and then raw popcorn to fill up the space.

 

Maybe try bumping up the load with more powder and/or shot to fill up the space instead??

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4 minutes ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

I too have stood next to this fella, it’s an assault on the ears, I understand his loads have been addressed at a particular club. I seriously believe he’s going to blow up the gun and hurt himself or others. 

Yes his loads have been addressed. It got to a point that spotters started to stand further away from the line because of the noise. It was not pleasant and there were times opening the SG was a chore for him. And your right about the SG blowing up. That was why I stood a little behind ( 3 ft) to the side just in case.

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Loudness of the report is proportional to the amount of gas pressure buildup in the barrel. (Think fully inflated balloon versus a barely inflated balloon when they are popped.). A heavier shot charge will create more pressure and a louder bang.

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Due to lower back spasms I did not shoot yesterday but I did work ULT for that posse the entire match. all but one stage has sidewalls, all have a roof. Three BP shooters.

Branchwater Jack- some flame, typical BP boom but not all that loud, like the BP version of Winchester low noise/low recoil shells.
Toolman- loudest of the BP shooters, most flame shooting a 12ga SxS with short barrels. Not even close to abusively loud.
Graywolf Tate- deepest boom, most smoke, some flame, long barrel (30"?), about like a Brown Bess musket with just a light wad loaded for re-enactment.

Loudest shotgun of the day was a smokeless shooter using  a 97, definitely hot commercial loads but no magnum or high brass empties came across the ULT. Borderline abusively loud.

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The range where I was the TO has dirt sidewalls. He was not inside or under any roof, and the noise level was really bad!!!! If he was to shoot that SG in a building someone hearing would gotten injured from the noise.

 

 

Nawlins

 

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6 minutes ago, Nawlins Kid said:

The range where I was the TO has dirt sidewalls. He was not inside or under any roof, and the noise level was really bad!!!! If he was to shoot that SG in a building someone hearing would gotten injured from the noise.

 

 

Nawlins

 

And the sad part is, he probably doesn't care.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

And the sad part is, he probably doesn't care.

 

 

No, he doesn’t. He thinks it’s funny. 

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14 minutes ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

No, he doesn’t. He thinks it’s funny. 

Your right!!! I timed him for all 10 stages at the state match. On one stage he shot it around 60 seconds. When I gave him his time he tells  me is that all , how can I have fun shooting that fast!!!

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Posted (edited)

I have several tens, and shoot a 10g coach gun now and then, but I sure don't have any desire to make 'em louder. :lol: Nice soft loads of 85-90 grains black and 1 1/8 oz shot is plenty. After shooting them awhile, even I had to ask myself, "Why?" Just so I can say, "my Richard is bigger than yours", I guess. :mellow:

TheJudge.jpg

Judge_n_Jury.JPG

Edited by J Bar Binks, #47015
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Graywolf,

I shoot a 10ga sometimes. It's a Spanish double made in the 70's, (1970's) with full chokes, 32" bbls. , and 3 1/2" chambers. It weighs about 12 1/2 lbs. I use brass shells. I use 2ff (Graf or Goex) and "regular" 209 primers. I shoot a 5 dram load, 27gr.=1 dram. Now you won't get much more BOOM, but if you try 1ff, you'll probably get more FIRE. With a full choke you'll have to "aim" at the targets, because with that 1 3/4 oz. shot and full choke, it'll be like shooting a slug. At our close distances you don't get any kind of spread. I backed off to about 3/4-1 oz. of shot, YMMV.  When you shoot a short bbl. 12 with open chokes the shot will spread out and you don't have to aim as close, but with a full choke it's different. Just experiment 'till you get it right.

Have fun,

Isom

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J Bar,

nice family you've got there. I looked all over about 10-12 years ago for a hammered double like those that I could afford. Had to settle for a hammerless. Your reply came in while I was writing the reply under yours.

Isom

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4 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Laugh...????

 

That's sad.

 

I guess if that attitude makes you feel like a tough and rough cowboy ... Afterall, it is all about you.

 

Phantom

 

Never claimed to be rough or tough cowboy. I play this game because I enjoy it and deal with the less enjoyable parts that comes with it. I laugh because you always seem to have something to say and if it's not your way it's wrong. Just the way I see it. So yes it amuses me. Have a nice day and look forward to seeing more content from you in the future. 

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3 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Loudness of the report is proportional to the amount of gas pressure buildup in the barrel. (Think fully inflated balloon versus a barely inflated balloon when they are popped.). A heavier shot charge will create more pressure and a louder bang.

And the pressure buildup will also be greater with a better burning powder.

 

Admittedly, I have not shot Graf's reenactor powder, but have shot other 'like' branded powders in the past, and they are usually a mix of 2F + powder. I found that much of the bigger chunks are still burning as they come out of the barrel. 

 

Now, you can increase burn rate by decreasing powder size with a straight 2F or even a 3F. You can also increase it by shooting higher quality powders that burn better.

 

"Percieved" loudness of the report - to the shooter - will also be proportional to the proximity to the business end of the firearm (ie shorten the barrel), the surroundings where they are shooting (ie shooting with the business end of the firearm in the building instead of out past it), and level of hearing protection worn (or none at all).

 

Speaking as someone with tinnitus gained from years of mistakenly shooting BP firearms without hearing protection...it might help explain why I shoot "the BP version of Winchester low noise/low recoil shells."

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1 hour ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

I have several tens, and shoot a 10g coach gun now and then, but I sure don't have any desire to make 'em louder. :lol: Nice soft loads of 85-90 grains black and 1 1/8 oz shot is plenty. After shooting them awhile, even I had to ask myself, "Why?" Just so I can say, "my Richard is bigger than yours", I guess. :mellow:

TheJudge.jpg

Judge_n_Jury.JPG

I love the tacking and the detail on the bead.

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7 hours ago, Nawlins Kid said:

I've have been a TO to a shooter who has a short barrel 10 ga. who really like his SxS  to go boom. Even standing three ft away to the side with hearing protection it hurt my ears!!! It may be cool to you having a " BIG " boom not so much for other people.

 

STAY away for using Magnesium . Sure it will give you sparks but you can start a fire.  And it there is some wind blowing the wrong way sparks could hit a fellow shooter. The sparks could burn holes in their clothes or land on their skin and your fellow shooters will not be very happy .

 

Nawlins

Yes please, no magnesium.  My solution to someone who likes the really loud stuff is to leave the area while he shoots.  I don't have hearing loss, nor do my wife and kids, and I intend for all of us to stay that way.  That's four posse members that aren't involved at that point.  

 

If enough people are bothered by it pretty soon he won't have a TO or spotters, problem solved.

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2 hours ago, Turkey Flats Jack said:

Never claimed to be rough or tough cowboy. I play this game because I enjoy it and deal with the less enjoyable parts that comes with it. I laugh because you always seem to have something to say and if it's not your way it's wrong. Just the way I see it. So yes it amuses me. Have a nice day and look forward to seeing more content from you in the future. 

I rarely see a need for me to add to posts that I agree with and already have a bunch of agreeing posts... What would be the point?

 

I enjoy offering contrary positions. How else do we learn if we don't expose ourselves you these opposing arguments?

 

So it's not that I think I right and you're wrong. It's more like you might be wrong and here's why.

 

Regarding this topic of purposely looking to make one's SG rounds as loud as possible, I do take a strong position against it. It serves no purpose other than fulfilling the shooters need to be loud at the detriment of others.

 

Phantom

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19 hours ago, Snakebite said:

ABSOULTLY! I have some horror stories about some of these "Self made Pyros" that think they know what they are doing..... but don't. 

 Never shoot a stage that has "Stop, Drop, and Roll" as part of the instructions.

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Pyrotechnics are easy to solve. Do not allow them on your range. The range where I play does not allow exploding targets either. As far as this gun or that is too loud! There is no rule for that. Ware hearing protection. If you think the ammunition is unsafe, that is another matter. How will you prove it? Is a five Dram charge a hi velocity load in a 10g? I think it is so maybe that is grounds for illegal ammo. Not because it is too loud. As a 12g shooter I know that a 4 Dram charge is a magnum load and would be inappropriate for our game. Again, not because it’s too loud but because it is too fast. 

Hearing loss is no joke. Over 30 years in a power plant with screaming pumps and turbines I have lost 50 percent in one ear and 35 in the other and I used ear plugs or muffs. At times both. My hearing aids only cost 6,000 five years ago and I do not ware them around firearms. I use ear plugs so shooting is not too loud.

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4 minutes ago, Lead Monger said:

Pyrotechnics are easy to solve. Do not allow them on your range. The range where I play does not allow exploding targets either. As far as this gun or that is too loud! There is no rule for that. Ware hearing protection. If you think the ammunition is unsafe, that is another matter. How will you prove it? Is a five Dram charge a hi velocity load in a 10g? I think it is so maybe that is grounds for illegal ammo. Not because it is too loud. As a 12g shooter I know that a 4 Dram charge is a magnum load and would be inappropriate for our game. Again, not because it’s too loud but because it is too fast. 

Hearing loss is no joke. Over 30 years in a power plant with screaming pumps and turbines I have lost 50 percent in one ear and 35 in the other and I used ear plugs or muffs. At times both. My hearing aids only cost 6,000 five years ago and I do not ware them around firearms. I use ear plugs so shooting is not too loud.

Some folks have to wear hearing aids during shoots. They are programmed to compress sound effectively killing high db sound.

 

But fact is that the typical hearing protection worn by the average CAS at matches are not going to be that effective against a 10ga pushed to some bizarre db level in an enclosed or covered stage.

 

You are 100% correct regarding the lack of a rule and that we should be wearing hearing protection. But as someone previously said, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

 

I also find it fascinating that so many folks just seem to poo-poo the issue of someone going out of their way to have as loud of a SG as possible. Kinda funny when consider the desire for many folks to have the HPA passed.

 

Phantom

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I suppose people play this game for different reasons. Must be why there is an endless number of categories. 

I can’t imagine wearing hearing aids while shooting. No wonder you are concerned. The very best plugs are good for little more than 20db reduction. The best fitting muffs are good for about a 30db reduction and wearing both together only gains a dB or two. I spent a lot of time in a Gas Turbine Generator room that was 127db. Do your ears ring? Mine do.

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1 hour ago, Lead Monger said:

Is a five Dram charge a hi velocity load in a 10g? I think it is so maybe that is grounds for illegal ammo. Not because it is too loud. As a 12g shooter I know that a 4 Dram charge is a magnum load and would be inappropriate for our game. Again, not because it’s too loud but because it is too fast.

Do the velocity/power factor requirements apply to black power categories? It was recently pointed out to me that they do if shooting black powder in a category not requiring black powder, but do they apply when shooting in a black powder category?

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

Do the velocity/power factor requirements apply to black power categories? It was recently pointed out to me that they do if shooting black powder in a category not requiring black powder, but do they apply when shooting in a black powder category?

 

Black powder ammo used in BP categories must comply with the minimum "smoke factor" regs.

The power factor/minimum velocity regs do not apply to shotgun ammunition.

REF: SHB p.26

 

Quote

- Magnum and high velocity shotgun shells are not allowed. 

SHB p.27

 

 

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
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Magnum and high velocity shotgun loads are not allowed and there is no propellant mentioned.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Lead Monger said:

Magnum and high velocity shotgun loads are not allowed and there is no propellant mentioned.

 

True...that applies to ALL shotgun ammunition.

There are also neither definitions for those two terms, nor testing methods for compliance listed.

 

Obviously If a shooter is using factory "super magnum express goose shredder" ammo that is so labeled, there is no question.

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
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1 hour ago, Lead Monger said:

I suppose people play this game for different reasons. Must be why there is an endless number of categories. 

I can’t imagine wearing hearing aids while shooting. No wonder you are concerned. The very best plugs are good for little more than 20db reduction. The best fitting muffs are good for about a 30db reduction and wearing both together only gains a dB or two. I spent a lot of time in a Gas Turbine Generator room that was 127db. Do your ears ring? Mine do.

Heck, my ears ring, tick, rattle ... Never heard silence... Heard that it's peaceful though:lol:

 

The problem with those muffs is that they don't fit too well with cowboy hats.:(

 

Phantom

 

 

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If the box says hi velocity or magnum I’m thinking that’s a hint. If I put four and a half Drams of 2F in A 12g shell with 1 1/8oz of shot you know it came from the magnum section of the loading manual. Common sense.

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Lead Monger said:

If the box says hi velocity or magnum I’m thinking that’s a hint. If I put four and a half Drams of 2F in A 12g shell with 1 1/8oz of shot you know it came from the magnum section of the loading manual. Common sense.

 

I already mentioned box labels for factory ammo.

I don't know what your handload specs are unless you tell me.
...and who carries a loading manual at a match to verify from which section the data was obtained? 

 

Considering that shooting illegal ammunition is a MATCH DQ, how do we test reloaded shotgun ammunition (e.g. most BP ammo) for compliance?

Quote

- Shooting illegal ammunition (e.g., Ammo which exceeds the max velocities, and ringed or necked shotgun shells.  This does not include ammo that does not meet the power factor). 

SHB p.24

 

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
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I don’t understand your argument. Are you suggesting there needs to be more rules? A procedure for testing shotgun ammo for speed? Maybe a clarification or definition of what hi velocity shotgun ammo is.

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I use 1F and max load it is load enough 

Since we cant talk loads 

More powder burns outside barrel 

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2 hours ago, Double Tap Taylor said:

I use 1F and max load it is load enough 

Since we cant talk loads 

More powder burns outside barrel 

New forum rules allow posting loads!

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Phantom said " I also find it fascinating that so many folks just seem to poo-poo the issue of someone going out of their way to have as loud of a SG as possible " is right on .

 

When spotters standing possibly 12 to 15 ft behind the shooter and are putting their hands over their ears with hearing protection, one would think  the SG blast is really making too much noise.

I'm NOT for advocating  some new rule about making to much noise. Instead how about some consideration for your follow shooters ( with hearing protection on) that would not like to injure there hearing!!!

What would happen if the posse members decided that no one would be a spotter for shooter with the big 10 ga.who makes their ears hurt ????

 

Nawlins

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Nawlins Kid said:

Phantom said " I also find it fascinating that so many folks just seem to poo-poo the issue of someone going out of their way to have as loud of a SG as possible " is right on .

 

When spotters standing possibly 12 to 15 ft behind the shooter and are putting their hands over their ears with hearing protection, one would think  the SG blast is really making too much noise.

I'm NOT for advocating  some new rule about making to much noise. Instead how about some consideration for your follow shooters ( with hearing protection on) that would not like to injure there hearing!!!

What would happen if the posse members decided that no one would be a spotter for shooter with the big 10 ga.who makes their ears hurt ????

 

Nawlins

 

 

He still wouldn’t understand.

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1 minute ago, Yul Lose said:

He still wouldn’t understand.

The shooter I dealt with thought it was a real big  hoot to make as much noise as possible!!! What I'm getting at is hopefully more shooters don't go down path let's make as much noise as possible  and not  worry about any consequences in how it may effect their fellow shooters.

 

Nawlins

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