1911 Govt. Series 80 question

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

I've a .45 cal Colt 1911 Govt. Model 80 (1991 Series), which is a great shooter. As I understand it, the main difference between it and the Series 70 is the trigger safety. I shot my son's Ruger SR1911 which I believe has the same trigger setup at the Series 70. I preferred the Ruger trigger because it doesn't have to take up the slack required to disengage the safety.

 

It's not an "OMG, I love this and hate the other", just a preference. I've heard it's possible to convert the 80 to Series 70 arrangement without replacing the slide or other expensive parts. True?

 

I've done a fair amount of successful tuning on my cowboy guns so I'm wondering if I could do it, or does it require an expert gunsmith? Are welding and new parts required?

 

I don't want to mess up a good gun or spend a lot of $$$, so any insight that can be shared is welcome.

 

 

[Major E A Sterner #12916]

They make a plate that takes the place of the parts that make up the safety parts,You also have to remove the firing pin lock plunger and spring,Easy job if you know how to field strip a 1911 .45

Here's the link to the part

http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/frame-parts/frame-hardware/fillers/tj-s-1911-series-80-to-series-70-conversion-shims-prod13121.aspx

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

19 minutes ago, Major E A Sterner #12916 said:

They make a plate that takes the place of the parts that make up the safety parts,You also have to remove the firing pin lock plunger and spring,Easy job if you know how to field strip a 1911 .45

Here's the link to the part

http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/frame-parts/frame-hardware/fillers/tj-s-1911-series-80-to-series-70-conversion-shims-prod13121.aspx

Thanks Major. I assume weight and length of the pull remain the same, and just removes that sponginess?

[Major E A Sterner #12916]

Yes,The sponginess you feel is the spring in the firing pin plunger

[ShadowCatcher]

I guess I must be in the small minority, but that firing pin safety does not bother me, nor does it preclude getting a good trigger pull.

 

There is a wee bit of pressure against the trigger bow as it slides back to engage the sear, which is caused by the sear sprig.

Once the trigger bow touches the sear feet, all the pressure is really the sear sliding across the hammer hooks, and some additional

resistance caused by the 2 - 4 ounces of spring in the safety.  If all those moving surfaces (hammer hooks, sear face, trigger bow, etc,)

are correct and properly set, it should not be possible to tell whether a 1911 has the series 80 safety or not.

 

There will be some 'sponginess' in the take up of any trigger, since the only thing moving is the trigger bow against the sear spring.

That is corrected by any of several approaches from cleaning the trigger bow cut outs, polishing the surfaces, putting in a take up

and over travel screw, etc.

 

Perhaps there is something I am missing, but I've seen and shot dozens of 1911's that have been cleaned up, and a few that are stock,

as well as series 70's since the early 1970's, and I just don't understand the issue about the safety affecting the trigger pull

 

SC

 

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

A #10 AN washer will replace the 'plate'.

A good part of the 'sponge' you feel is also from the disconnector 'finger' and trigger return 'finger' of the 3 finger leaf spring in the rec'r. 

That said-WHY do you want to remove it to start with?

Think about this-What happens, if you have an AD and someone is hurt with this modified gun. Your gonna be ruined in civil court.

IMHO-Leave it alone.

To compare a 1911 work to cowboy guns, is like comparing apples to onions........

OLG

[Dantankerous]

I've had series 80 1911 Colts and their triggers were much better than the Kimber 1911's I had with their type of FP/drop safety. 

 

My 70s series Colt 1911's trigger is a thing of mystical beauty, but not all that much better than the series 80 Colts I had.

 

Maybe I just got lucky with the series 80s I have had?

 

I never saw a need to alter the series 80 system in a Colt. But then again I don't shoot them competitively anywhere. 

[Chili Ron]

Howdy,

If you want 70 buy 70.

Don't give the lawyers a field day.

Yes I have a modified piece but never for personal carry.

NO way.

That bein said, don't tell the lawers and they just might not notice??

Best

CR

 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

A #10 AN washer will replace the 'plate'.

A good part of the 'sponge' you feel is also from the disconnector 'finger' and trigger return 'finger' of the 3 finger leaf spring in the rec'r. 

That said-WHY do you want to remove it to start with? To get a crisper trigger like the Ruger. We modify our cowboy guns with this objective in mind, why not a 1911? Might as well ask all the cowboys with Rugers why they removed their transfer bars and/or installed a half-cock kit. Might as well ask why they disable the auto safety on their SxS.

 

Think about this-What happens, if you have an AD and someone is hurt with this modified gun. Your gonna be ruined in civil court. That's a moot point. I'm/anyone is ruined in civil court regardless of gun type, modified or not. Besides, it still has two safeties, which is two more than our cowboy revolvers and lever guns. Those two safeties have been serving 1911s extremely well since its inception. It's so safe that Colt and others still make the series 70. The the trigger block was added to meet gun control laws in some states, not because the gun is inherently unsafe. 

IMHO-Leave it alone. 

 

To compare a 1911 work to cowboy guns, is like comparing apples to onions........ From what I've read since my OP, it ain't rocket surgery. Unlike our cowboy guns, there's no filing, grinding, cutting, welding and other modifications of existing parts -- just a $9.00 drop in part. If it doesn't achieve my objective, or I decide to sell it, I can put it back the way it was.

 

 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

21 minutes ago, Chili Ron said:

Howdy,

If you want 70 buy 70. Or I can keep a gun I really like and improve it for $9.00 and an hour or so of my time. If it doesn't achieve my objective, I can put it back the way it was. I don't want to sell this gun and I don't want another 1911

Don't give the lawyers a field day. That ship sailed many years ago. 

Yes I have a modified piece but never for personal carry.

NO way. Didn't say this is a personal carry piece and I don't intend it to be one.  I have a dedicated piece for that.

That bein said, don't tell the lawers and they just might not notice?? Nah, too many lawyers live under rocks and comb thru garbage looking for ways to legally extort money. Not all are like that, just enough to give a really bad name to the profession

Best Thx! 

CR

 

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Bottom line-You are deactivating a factory safety. 

As far a 'rocket science'. I was an apprentice under Armand Swenson for over 5yrs. Trust me-The 1911 has far more parts interaction, than you think. Our 'cowboy' guns are a piece of cake, compared to any semi-auto!

Bet in your reading-You learned the 'trick' to set'n the tension on each of the 3 fingers of the sear spring. 

I didn't say this-Take a coil off the plunger spring in the slide. Now, remember you didn't hear that from me. 

Good info here-

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=10297

 

OLG

 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

43 minutes ago, Dantankerous said:

My 70s series Colt 1911's trigger is a thing of mystical beauty, but not all that much better than the series 80 Colts I had. Which is what I hope to achieve. If not, I'm out $9 and an hour or so of my time.

 

I never saw a need to alter the series 80 system in a Colt. But then again I don't shoot them competitively anywhere. Neither do I, except Wild Bunch. At the end of the day, I too may decide the mod didn't make any difference. 

 

[Dantankerous]

My Springfield GI 1911 has the hardest trigger compared to any of the Colts or Kimbers I have had. And it's not exactly a bad trigger either. Just a harder pull... when it breaks it breaks clean. I'm sure it could be smooth and polished and whatever else making it super duper but this is my Wild Bunch gun and I will just leave it unaltered because I really don't need to do anything to a hobby gun. Again, if I was going to be competing in some serious Bullseye or Steel Challenge match I might have a different opinion.

 

Any of those 1911's have better triggers than my Glocks. And generally it's the Glock that gets carried most often.

 

 

[Dutch Nichols, SASS #6461]

There's also a difference in the hammers , original series 70 hammers have a safety notch the 80 do not they just have a ledge.

[Tom Bullweed]

Use an unmodified series 70 for self defense, no problem.

Shoot a baddie with a series 80 modified to remove a safety, and you bought a boat for a lawyer.

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

Colt is advertising the return of the Series 70 system.

[Henry T Harrison]

The series 80 parts fell out of my Gold Cup while I was qualifying completely tying up the gun. Thank God it happened on the range not in he street. The gun functions quite well without them.

[ShadowCatcher]

Let me flip the question on it's head:

 

Are there any professional gunsmiths here who are saying they can't make a series 80 trigger

shoot as well as a series 70 without first removing the parts?

 

SC

 

 

[Major E A Sterner #12916]

Here's an idea, It's his gun, He can do whatever he wants to with it.He asked about a product and was given an answer.If you're posting something that has nothing to do with the OP,Then pass the thread by. I've been a member of SASS for 20 years and I've seen this happen time and again.This is what drives people away from the SASS wire.  If I want an opinion I ask for one,if I don't please don't foist yours on me.

Slim, sorry for the rant,But a guy gets tired of this going on way too much anymore.Y'all have a good one.

[ShadowCatcher]

10 hours ago, Major E A Sterner #12916 said:

Here's an idea, It's his gun, He can do whatever he wants to with it.He asked about a product and was given an answer.If you're posting something that has nothing to do with the OP,Then pass the thread by. I've been a member of SASS for 20 years and I've seen this happen time and again.This is what drives people away from the SASS wire.  If I want an opinion I ask for one,if I don't please don't foist yours on me.

Slim, sorry for the rant,But a guy gets tired of this going on way too much anymore.Y'all have a good one.

 

Sometimes folks who are interested and care about a subject engage in a CONVERSATION about a topic,

rather then just provide a question and answer service for free.

 

The problem with publicly asking a question is that you will get publicly answered by anyone else in the public forum.

If you want a filtered conversation you need to go to a moderated forum.

 

Many folks find this type of dialog both interesting and informative. I find it hard to believe that this is what drives people away

from the wire, in fact I'd argue that people who act the curmudgeon do more harm than anything else.

 

Just my unsolicited opinion.

 

SC

 

 

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

The 1991A1 is fantastic firearm and I must've fired at least 5000 rounds through mine...no hiccup, no "parts falling out of it" - just a great shooter to this day.

 

IMHO - leave it alone and get a 70 Series to add to your collection.

 

GG ~ 

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

Hey, now... easy on us Curmudgeons!  

 

Har!  

 

Anyway, I'm perfectly happy with my 80's stock trigger.

 

Well... almost perfectly ~ I'd like it a bit more if it wasn't plastic.  But it functions perfectly fine!    

[Tascosa, SASS# 24838]

I have a Colt Commander series 80, and took that damn trigger safety OUT. Shoots better now. not hard if you can take the slide apart. I don't reckon a gunsmith could charge too much to do it. takes about 10 minutes tops.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

FYI-Many gunsmiths today, will NOT deactivate a firearm safety in this sue happy world we live in. 

OLG

[Pat Riot]

I am with Shadow Catcher on this one. I also agree with OLG regarding safety and civil court but it's your gun, do what you want.

 

I had a Colt 1991A1 and I could feel some resistance from the trigger safety. I was going to modify it to remove the safety. I did remember a couple of ADs that I perosnally witnessed with series 70 guns so I decided to see if I could make the safety better.

Here is what I did:

1. I took 2000 grit sandpaper and smoothed out the plunger to a mirror finish. I had to make a little jig to hold with a Dremel tool chuck and I polished it. I didn't remove hardly any metal at all.

2. I polished the inside of the plunger hole. Take a cotton swab. Push it straight into the plunger hole and then pull it out. If it gets damaged or tufts re left behind polish the inside of the hole. I used some 1000 wet paper rolled up to fit in the hole and I spun it by hand fora while then did the same with 2000 grit.

3. Burnish the rough edges off the "finger". That includes the pin hole.

4. It may sound silly but I burnished the ends of the plunger spring a bit as well.

 

This actually made a difference. Oh yeah, I lubed these compoents with Pro-Shot "Zero Friction" too.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

In the 1911, a good part of the gritty trigger you feel is from the disconnector's 'nose' rubbing in the slide's little cut out as you pull on the trigger. 

Smooth that area up, before going inside the gun.

OLG

[ShadowCatcher]

6 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

In the 1911, a good part of the gritty trigger you feel is from the disconnector's 'nose' rubbing in the slide's little cut out as you pull on the trigger. 

Smooth that area up, before going inside the gun.

OLG

I just had to spend about 10 minutes looking at all the parts to figure that out - and now it makes a great deal of sense!

Thanks!

 

SC

 

[Dutch Nichols, SASS #6461]

"Shoot a baddie with a series 80 modified to remove a safety, and you bought a boat for a lawyer "

show me one case where this has happened.....you can't because it hasn't

 more internet and gun rag tripe.

 

I agree if you shoot somebody you just bought a lawyer a boat!!

Folks you shoot somebody, right or wrong, series 70 or 80, you're going to write a check for 10 grand

to some lawyer and that's probably just the start.Go to trial and perhaps 50 grand or more and hopefully no jail time.

Think a bad divorce is expensive.........

 OH and your homeowners insurance depending on the company may or "MAY NOT" cover you for this

 

[Henry T Harrison]

22 minutes ago, Dutch Nichols, SASS #6461 said:

"Shoot a baddie with a series 80 modified to remove a safety, and you bought a boat for a lawyer "

show me one case where this has happened.....you can't because it hasn't

 more internet and gun rag tripe.

 

I agree if you shoot somebody you just bought a lawyer a boat!!

Folks you shoot somebody, right or wrong, series 70 or 80, you're going to write a check for 10 grand

to some lawyer and that's probably just the start.Go to trial and perhaps 50 grand or more and hopefully no jail time.

Think a bad divorce is expensive.........

 OH and your homeowners insurance depending on the company may or "MAY NOT" cover you for this

 

According to our District Attorney if it's a good clean shoot it doesn't matter what you shoot him with. If the shoot is sketchy then the gun might be questioned especially in civil court.

If you have an AD with a modified gun and someone is injured all bets are off

 

[Tascosa, SASS# 24838]

1 hour ago, Henry T Harrison said:

According to our District Attorney if it's a good clean shoot it doesn't matter what you shoot him with. If the shoot is sketchy then the gun might be questioned especially in civil court.

If you have an AD with a modified gun and someone is injured all bets are off

 

The DA's and ADA's I spoke with confirm what you said. A good shooting the Grand Jury will no bill you here in Texas. An AD with injuries Everything is questioned,Gun, your training or lack there of. You're in deep dodo.