Anyone use HSM bullets?

[Pat Riot]

Howdy,

I have used Bear Creek Supply moly coated bullets for years but the heaviest bullet they sell for .45 Colt is 205 grains in weight, or at least that is all I can find. That and I am actually new to loading .45 Colt. I have always used .38 Spl and .357 Magnum for my CAS guns. I have a 500 round round box of BCS 205 grain bullets that I am loading up for CAS, after I figure out the right recipe.

 

Anyway, I am curious about HSM bullets. I bought a 500 round round box of 250 grain LRNFP "Hardcast" bullets and I was wondering; Are they really "Hardcast"? I did some research on line looking for the Brinell Hardness of these bullets and they have a claimed Brinell Hardness of 15. If they are I would think that "leading" would be minimal.

 

Has anyone tried these bullets and what are your impressions of them?

 

I plan to load these at the medium to upper limits in power for lead bullets.

 

[Griff]

At 45 Colt velocities, unless you have a fitment problem (too small a diameter) or a rough, irregular bore, you shouldn't have any leading with dead soft, pure lead projectiles.

[Slow Mo Dern]

Hi Pat,

 

Please tell me what BCS and HSM stands for. Thank you.

 

Are they for CAS and what powder do you plan to use?

 

Mo

[Lost Trail]

Hi Pat,

 

Please tell me what BCS and HSM stands for. Thank you.

 

Are they for CAS and what powder do you plan to use?

 

Mo

HSM is The Hunting Shack based out of my home stomping grounds in the Bitterroot Valley of Montana, Stevensville, MT to be exact. I've used a lot of their ammunition, pistol and rifle, over the years and really like it as a 'factory' alternative. I have NOT used any of their Cowboy ammo but would assume it would be every bit as high quality as what I have used. Still have a bunch of .38 and .357 HSM ammo.

 

BCS is Bear Creek Supply out of Waterford, CA. I believe. Not familiar with them other than having heard the name.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Lost Trail

[Southpaw Gringo, SASS # 74217]

Howdy,

I have used Bear Creek Supply moly coated bullets for years but the heaviest bullet they sell for .45 Colt is 205 grains in weight, or at least that is all I can find. That and I am actually new to loading .45 Colt. I have always used .38 Spl and .357 Magnum for my CAS guns. I have a 500 round round box of BCS 205 grain bullets that I am loading up for CAS, after I figure out the right recipe.

 

Anyway, I am curious about HSM bullets. I bought a 500 round round box of 250 grain LRNFP "Hardcast" bullets and I was wondering; Are they really "Hardcast"? I did some research on line looking for the Brinell Hardness of these bullets and they have a claimed Brinell Hardness of 15. If they are I would think that "leading" would be minimal.

 

Has anyone tried these bullets and what are your impressions of them?

 

I plan to load these at the medium to upper limits in power for lead bullets.

 

I got a couple of boxes of Bear Creek 255grn ,45 Colt bullets. Did they stop making them?

[Rusty Parker]

I've used some of the HSM 38-55 bullets for a new-to-me Winchester Miroku highwall. So far so good, ordered them through Mountain States Ammo. Will probably buy more.

[Pat Riot]

I got a couple of boxes of Bear Creek 255grn ,45 Colt bullets. Did they stop making them?

Southpaw Gringo, I don't know. The supplier I bought mine through only had / sells 185 or 205 grain bullets.

[Pat Riot]

Griff, Lost Trail, Rusty, thank you for responding :-)

[Lunger]

i can only vouch for the 405 gr slug from hsm. They are accurate in my 1895 marlin lever gun with Unique powder. i can't hardly scratch the slug with my thumbnail,so they're pretty hard. Not sure how they'd be with black powder,but work well with smokeless. The rifle is shooting an inch and a quarter at 100 yards with the marbles tang sight on it. I don't remember the price,but bought a second box of them at sportsman's awhile ago. give them a try,and let us know what you think. Lunger

[Sedalia Dave]

Read "From Ingot to Target." most of what you have been taught about bullet hardness and what causes lead build up in a barrel is hokum.

[Pat Riot]

Lunger, Thanks and I will....some day. Going to work on my BCS bullets first.

 

Sedalia Dave, interesting reading. I saved the link. Thanks.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

A couple more 15BHN options (local):

 

https://www.badmanbullets.com/OnlineStore/categories.php?cat=45+Caliber

 

https://www.badmanbullets.com/OnlineStore/categories.php?cat=45+Caliber+Polymer+Coated+Bullets

[Cat Brules]

Why haven't you called Bear Creek Supply and ASK for the heavier bullets? It is pretty much a one-man shop, so leave a message and call back if you don't get an immediate answer

 

(209) 874-4322

.... Steve

 

19406 Yosemite Boulevard

Waterford CA 95386

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Pat-Call Bear Creek for the weight you want in .45.

There's much that AIN'T on their site in bullet weights.

OLG

[Slow Mo Dern]

Lost Trail,

 

Thank you for responding.

 

Mo

[Pat Riot]

Thanks Pards. I will try calling them. I was buying my BCS bullets from Bullets and More on line. I used to get them at a shop in SoCal when I lived there but haven't found them locally. I will try calling BCS directly.

 

I am still interested in anyone's experiences with HSM bullets. I tried some of their ammo and was happy with it. I want to load some up at some point in the upper safe limits to see how they perform in my original model Vaquero.

[drjjpdc]

Pat,

 

I'm from NJ. I took a trip out west in the summer of 2015. I was short of ammo I loaded on the way to a long distance CB dinger shoot in WA. So I stopped at a Cabelas in MT. Saw some .45-70 ammo in 405 gr 20 to the box for less than $30.00, so I bought 2-3 of them. They were very good quality stuff that I would not hesitate to buy again. Recently I bought a Marlin 1893 in .32-40. I have seen brass go for $2-$3 a piece! I found this site

 

https://www.venturamunitions.com/

 

and they had a lot of CB ammo and other western calibers at decent prices. They had boxes of .32-40 AMMO for $45.00! So I can shoot the ammo and still have 20 pcs. of great brass for the price of brass alone!

[Palo Verde, SASS # 56522]

HJSM ammo is apparently not intended for Cowboy Action Shooting -- according to their folks at the factory.

 

Had a customer come in twice in one week with obvious overpowered loads damage to his '73 (bent toggles). Both out of same box of HSM ammo.

I called HSM to discuss the problem and try to figure out if something special had happened to a batch of ammo or if different ammo got mixed in or ....?

 

I was told (by HSM) that: their "ammo is not intended for Cowboy Action shooting" and that "the picture on the box is just something the marketing people came up with"

 

That is what the manufacturer told me. Your mileage may vary.

[Pat Riot]

Thank you drjjpdc, I got your PM. I appreciate the info.

 

That's interesting Palo Verde. I did buy 4 boxes of their loaded "Cowboy Action Cartridges". 2 in ,45 Colt and 2 in .357 Magnum.

The .45 Colt was not a wimp load but it wasn't "hot" either. It was about the power, in regards to recoil, that I would load my ammo. I do not shoot light loads for CAS. I won't go into my opinions on light loads for competition here and in this regard.

The .357 Magnum, on the other hand, was loaded like one would expect .357 Magnum. It had some serious kick to it and was not loaded down to .38 Spl power levels. Also, the cartridges were just a smidgen over SAAMI overall length, we're talking a few thousanths of an inch, but just long enough not to cycle in two different rifles. Out of my S&W revolvers they packed some punch. I would say that they were "hot" for CAS but I do not have a chronograph so I don't know how fast they are.

 

Their bullets, on the other hand, are very nice looking bullets. I was just concerned about leading issues but Sedalia Dave posted that link explaining leading issues and what might cause leading so that is really no longer a concern. I guess I never had leading issues with BCS bullets so I never really researched leading once I found their bullets and started loading them in 97 or 98. My knowledge on leading was pretty "old school". I don't really like that term but it fits here.

 

Thank you all for your posts and input. I do appreciate it very much.

 

Have a great week!

 

Best Regards,

Pat Riot

Edited February 6, 2017 by Pat Riot, SASS #13748

[Tennessee Stud]

My HSM .44 WCF (44-40) cartridges are all Cowboy loads. Already shot a bunch at groundhogs... but still have a little over a 1,100 rounds of HSM ammo remainin'.

 

https://www.outdoorlimited.com/HSM-Cowboy-Action-s/1999.htm?searching=Y&sort=7&cat=1999&show=12&page=1&f-44-40 Win=2300

 

ts

[Badwater Dan, SASS #25001]

Pat,

Long time my friend!!!!

Anyway, HSM uses Rim Rock lead exclusively in their cowboy ammo line, which is the same they sell as a component.

Don't ask me how I know, but I do. Rim Rock is based out Polson MT.

Regards,

BWD

[Pat Riot]

Why thank you, Badwater Dan. Good to hear from you. 

 

I have been using HSM bullets off and on and they definitely hit with a bang. I do like their loaded ammo too. I just picked up some of their 45-70 Cowboy ammo for the new Henry I have on order. I also have some 45 Colt loaded hot for carry in the woods with their hard cast lead bullets.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Both of those brands are great for SASS loads.

X2 on what Cat sayz about call'n Bear Creek for the weight you want.

What I have to do to get my .44/240rnfp.

OLG

[Pat Riot]

I have been using the BCS 205 grain RNFP and I love 'em. If I want to hit harder I just use the HSM bullets.

I get my Bear Creek Supply bullets from the nice folks at Bullets and More. http://www.bulletsandmore.com/category-s/1840.htm

 

I have used BCS bullets for years.

[Tony Crowe]

My usual cowboy round is HSM in .38 Special.  Works great in both the rifle and pistols.  I have been saving my brass and plan to switch over to reloading my own ammo later this year.  

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

When you order directly from BCB, they ship via USPS 'flat-rate'.

PR-In that link you gave, there is an error on the BCB page in the .44 spec/.44-40 bullets.

The .44 spec dia should start at .430. Not the .428 shown for the .44 WCF.

Also, in the .44 cal they don't show the 240gn bullet weight that BCB sells.

OLG

[Red Cent]

"At 45 Colt velocities, unless you have a fitment problem (too small a diameter) or a rough, irregular bore, you shouldn't have any leading with dead soft, pure lead projectiles."

What Griff said. You can drive a soft lead bullet too fast and you can drive a very hard bullet too slow. Either will cause leading. 

 

http://cowboybullets.com/

Read the home page.

 

 

 

 

[Badwater Dan, SASS #25001]

Yeah, as far as their loafed cowboy ammo goes, they run on the faster side of fps.

45/70 w/o gas check are limited at higher revs due to lead fouling. There's a Ballance to be struck. Before I left choice ammunition as their CAS ammo developer, we were playing with a few cool powder/projectile blends that were really showing promise at faster speeds without gas checks and breaking 1200 with no fouling. Since I'm gone, I doubt if they pursued it as it was a marginal Cowboy market slot....smh

BWD

 

[Lead Monger]

I have used HSM bullets in 38, 44 and 45 calibers. They work fine but there are less expensive alternatives. I like S&S and Rim Rock for Cowboy quantities. 

[Charlie Plasters, SASS#60943]

On 2/5/2017 at 3:44 PM, Cat Brules, SASS #14086 said:

Why haven't you called Bear Creek Supply and ASK for the heavier bullets? It is pretty much a one-man shop, so leave a message and call back if you don't get an immediate answer

 

(209) 874-4322

.... Steve

 

19406 Yosemite Boulevard

Waterford CA 95386

Yes, call Steve. Former Iowa boy so you know he will treat you right. 

[Burt Blade, #25657]

I am very happy with HSM .44-40 200 grain Cowboy loads. Velocity is moderate, and accuracy good. They are sized/tapered such that they run -well- in a very ammo picky replica 73 carbine. (An early Uberti with the serial numbered parts). 

 

As a general rule on “cowboy” factory loads, or commercial reloads, always check the actual bullet weight and published velocity. Many are -way- heavier and hotter than needed for our sport. 

[Ramblin Gambler]

I just used HSM's 45-70 in the long range match today.  Everyone else was commenting that it was hitting hard and one guy said it was whistling through the air.   I'm disappointed to hear it's too hot because I have a trapdoor Springfield I was hoping to use them in.  They are the same bullet weight and within 100 fps of the loads my buddy from the gun club loads for me, so I was hoping it'd be safe.  At least, according to the specs, I don't have any way of checking it. 

 

I bought a bunch of them because I found a good deal at cabelas.  Looks like I need a new rifle for the long range matches. 

 

Anyway, i can't help ya with the hardness because that's over my head.