Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Got one that has stumped us: Ammo is .45 Colt loaded to mild SASS loads--all same batch of ammo using 200 gr Lee RNFP bullets Revolvers (all .45 Colt): Uberti open top conversion 1860 (friend’s) Uberti Bird’s Head (friend’s) Pair of Cattleman (mine) so all the guns are Ubertis. The ammo works fine in the Cattleman; no hang ups, no FTF, smooth cocking between shots In the open top and Bird’s Head after the first shot both lock up. We can only get hammer back about half way. Cylinder will not turn. Have to remove the cylinders by pulling base pin. Things we checked: Bolt works as it is supposed to. Revolver operates fine without ammo. Cocks smoothly and no hang up of cylinder. With one round in chamber will shoot it and cylinder will spin. (Ammo also works fine in Ruger Vaqueros Old Models FWIW) This is my standard pistol load for about last 5 years. What’s has us stumped is ammo works fine in two of four pistols but not all of them Hard to believe it’s the ammo but then hard to believe it’s a firearm problem, also. Open to the expertise of the experts cheyenne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perro Del Diablo Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 you suspect the ammo is causing the problem have you tried other ammo in these pistols and they work fine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slate Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 The loads are too light and the primers are not re-seating under recoil. Up the load a little and the problem should go away. Best regards, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D. Daily Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 The loads are too light and the primers are not re-seating under recoil. Up the load a little and the problem should go away. Best regards, +1 What primers are you using. With Cowboy Fast Draw 45LC cartridges the brand of 209 primers matters in my Ruger NMV's. The NMV's lock-up with Remington 209 primers. Since there is no powder in CFD cartridges it can only be the strength of the primer cup that is the issue. Note: Primer setback is not an issue with CFD pistol lock-up since the 209 primers will fall out with the force of gravity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Make sure your primers are all seated below the case head before loading into gun. X2 on to 'lite' a load could also be a reason. PM me the exact load. OLG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 As above, I would try to increase powder charge as the cylinder gap varies a bit in revolvers. The gap in the Cattlemen is probably enough so that primers backing out do not bind the cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 If the load's were too light why would it work single loaded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attica Jack #23953 Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 I think Slate has your problem answered. If any load is too light in a revolver, when fired the primers back out a bit and the case will back out upon recoil and reseat the primer, if loaded too light the primer will only be partially reseated, jamming up the gun. If you look at the cylinder once removed from a jammed gun, you will probably find a empty case with the primer backed out. If the round fired in a different gun works, perhaps the the distance from the unfired round primer to the recoil plate is closer................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Mo powder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 you suspect the ammo is causing the problem have you tried other ammo in these pistols and they work fine? All we had at the range today was that ammo. Was for the rifle; didn't know he was bringing his revolvers. I'll increase the amount of powder and report back cr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) Take a set of feeler gauges and measure the distance from the back of the cylinders to the inside face of the actions. You will probably determine that all have a greater distance than the Cattleman. Light loads = primers that back out and are binding against the inside face of the action Reload some maximum powder reloads - crimp hard and believe your binding of the cylinders will disappear Short answer - Can the Wimp Loads! Edited January 29, 2017 by John Boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 I agree with the primer theory, but would also check the bullet crimp. I had some .44 spl ammo that shot fine in my 8" S&W 629, but locked up my Charter arms bulldog. The stouter recoil in the bulldog caused the bullets to slide out of the cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 also, check the clearance from front of cylinder to the forcing cone,,, may be too tite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throckmorton,23149 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 The same situation drove me nuts a few years back,and yup, Mo powder was the answer in my .45's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 OP-What powder did you use? Some powders are very temperature sensitive. Your load may work OK in the summer and then become a 'fly-fart' in the cold of winter. OLG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackey Cole Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 The loads are too light and the primers are not re-seating under recoil. Up the load a little and the problem should go away. Best regards, thats what it sounds like to me the cattlemans are closed frame guns the open tops are not the frame must be flexing and not reseating the primer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 OP-What powder did you use? Some powders are very temperature sensitive. Your load may work OK in the summer and then become a 'fly-fart' in the cold of winter. OLG Red Dot use it in 32s, 9mm, 38s, 45 ACP, 45 Colts and reduced load 45-70s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 had this issue when i tried to go lighter than my light load - i agree with above +1 to a bit more powder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Red Dot is more temp sensitive than most. Up your charge 1/2gn. Look at WW231 and Unique for the '70 & .32's. OLG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 headed out today to load up some hotter loads; basically take my rifle loads and use the pistol bullet. Match is this weekend so we'll see. Good thing I'm not counting on these two pistols as my main match ones. Ruger OMV have never had a problem with the loads so why change what isn't broken? (at least in those revolvers?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Wouldn't be nice to have loads you can shoot summer and winter? Just up the chg 1/2gn and you'll see...... OR-load the same for rifle and pistol then you have truly arrived at K.I.S.S. OLG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Red Dot is more temp sensitive than most. OLG Huh?? Never heard or seen that before, and I know alota folks that use Red Dot, and some that load right at min. Red Dot is a clean fast burning powder, not position or temp sensitive. They have to be loading way below min to get it to act like Rangers. I load Red Dot in all my smokeless stuff .38, .45, 44/40, 45acp, 12 ga....never a problem.....but I prefer BP Good Luck Jefro Relax-Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Jefro-That was the why, I stopped using it decades ago. It's not as bad as Bullseye........ OLG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Tombstone, SASS #49630 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I think John Boy has it right, I bet the headspace in that revolver is noticeably less that the others, upping the charge may solve the problem or it may not, I had a tightly headspaced revolver that would only function with certain brass that had a thinner rim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frio Kid, SASS #31915 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 headed out today to load up some hotter loads; basically take my rifle loads and use the pistol bullet. Match is this weekend so we'll see. Good thing I'm not counting on these two pistols as my main match ones. Ruger OMV have never had a problem with the loads so why change what isn't broken? (at least in those revolvers?) Will be very interested to see what happens. My two main match pistols usually never have a problem but January match it was 18 degrees and they were locking up where they would turn if aided by my left hand. I have another Cavalry model that locks up alot and must be taken apart. I have someone reload for me - so I need to check what powder he uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I have someone reload for me - so I need to check what powder he uses. You NEED to know more than that, about the ammo you're using......... OLG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frio Kid, SASS #31915 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 You NEED to know more than that, about the ammo you're using......... OLG You are no doubt correct about that. Many other things I need to know as well, but I can only stuff so much info between my ears. It is a well known commercial re-loader, not just some shade tree mechanic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Until the load is known. It's all SWAG'n if it's the load that's your issue or your guns are. I say this with over 50+ years reloading and a 'shade tree mechanic'. OLG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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