Scrub Oak Willie 53737 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Shooters Handbook Page 22 , # 7 , pg. 23 , # 6 -revolvers returned to leather after shooting string . If revolvers are the last firearm shot can I put the first revolver shot down on the table ( shelf ) shoot second revolver and then return both revolvers to holsters ? Some RO's say yes other say no . Thanks Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 YES. AND, its doesn't matter if revolvers are last or not. The KEY word is 'shooting string'. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 YES. AND, its doesn't matter if revolvers are last or not. The KEY word is 'shooting string'. ..........Widder Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=242398 http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=241554 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Time yourself to see it that is actually faster for you. It's not for most folks, except when revolvers are shot last. Shooting String time goes until you fire the first shot out of the next type of gun. You have until end of the handgun shooting string to "re-skin those smokewagons." Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 This is the 3rd question on this same issue in one month. If there are RO/T/Os and/or Instructors "out there" who are calling this contrary to the quoted rules, they need to take/teach a refresher course. (FWIW - I found the previous threads by searching under "return to leather" and "holster") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrub Oak Willie 53737 Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 Thats what I thought . Thanks . I don't think it is faster unless they are the last gun shot > Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrub Oak Willie 53737 Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 Sorry PaleWolf did not see the other threads on this subject . I was going to do it at a state match this weekend but was told I would get a P, so I did not do it, did not want to argue the matter. Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Sorry PaleWolf did not see the other threads on this subject . I was going to do it at a state match this weekend but was told I would get a P, so I did not do it, did not want to argue the matter. Willie Its a shame when a big match, like a state match, is being managed by those who not only don't know rules, but are willing to assign a penalty for something which doesn't exist. We need a rule that states if you're gonna award a penalty for something that doesn't exist, the penalty oughta be assessed to the originator of said penalty. rant mode off. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Sorry PaleWolf did not see the other threads on this subject . I was going to do it at a state match this weekend but was told I would get a P, so I did not do it, did not want to argue the matter. Willie That wasn't directed at you, Willie...it was for the benefit of those misinformed ROs who don't know the proper application of the rule "as written". Seems that there are quite of few of them, judging by the number of inquiries lately. You had it right from the beginning. I'd print & save those references to show them next time it comes up. Regards, PWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Its a shame when a big match, like a state match, is being managed by those who not only don't know rules, but are willing to assign a penalty for something which doesn't exist. We need a rule that states if you're gonna award a penalty for something that doesn't exist, the penalty oughta be assessed to the originator of said penalty. I'd back ya on that play! rant mode off. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrub Oak Willie 53737 Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 Thanks PaleWolf , Got them printed and will carry them with me !! Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Perhaps the time has come to require refresher courses on a regular basis for anyone who will be a posse marshal at state level and higher matches. Rarely do I have "old timers" audit RO courses. There was an RO2 course taught Friday here in Alabama and this topic was covered in depth during the course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 "Other" action shooting sports send out a refresher test every year or so. The RO/CRO has to take the test (not multiple choice and has to be answered chapter and verse) and sent back in order to hold on to their qualification. This could all be done on line of course, but then again, someone would have to actually do it and keep up with who and who is not currently qualified. I hate to say it and I'm not going to be making any friends here but this really should be part of the RO committee's responsibility. And thank the Good Lord I am not on the RO committee. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Perhaps the time has come to require refresher courses on a regular basis for anyone who will be a posse marshal at state level and higher matches. Rarely do I have "old timers" audit RO courses. There was an RO2 course taught Friday here in Alabama and this topic was covered in depth during the course. +! There are and have been so many errors of PMs at large matches. Most accept the penalties and move on. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Thats what I thought . Thanks . I don't think it is faster unless they are the last gun shot > Willie I wouldn't steer you wrong Scrub Oak. You can do it on most stages this weekend at the Tennessee State, because gun order is shooters choice on most. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I saw two poor calls this weekend and hard to argue with someone about the kicking a round out deal,,,, he wants to call it a P for going on.... and such nonsense.... it's like really??? threw my credit card on the table and told him up to $50k Ide cover it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrub Oak Willie 53737 Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 Randy saw the stages ,I know you wouldn't steer me wrong ! , your the one that gave me the pointer , thanks Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nawlins Kid SASS #36107 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 This is the 3rd question on this same issue in one month. If there are RO/T/Os and/or Instructors "out there" who are calling this contrary to the quoted rules, they need to take/teach a refresher course. (FWIW - I found the previous threads by searching under "return to leather" and "holster") +1 At least they should read the HB's before attending the match. Case in point. At the Eastern Divisional LPL and I were BM's. A young shooter left one in his pistol and one live on the carrier. The next thing there was a big discussion a SDQ was given and someone wanted the MD. The first thing I asked was the round in the revolver under the hammer, the answer was no then no call. The next question was the live round in the chamber or on the carrier, the answer was on the carrier. I told them the call was 10 second minor safety. One has to wonder if inaccurate calls like this are assessed at the local monthly matches and shooters forget over time what the correct meaning of the rules are. Nawlins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 The inadequate. improper calls by TO/RO's start at the home club monthlies and continue right up through the Big Matches. There will always be an influx of new, newer, and TO's that do not keep up with refreshers, or read the books, or keep up with the clarifications. Their intentions are good, but..... You may have a very knowledgeable PM on each posse, but they will not be there to make every call, nor should they. I should add, there is a significant percentage of shooters that are there, just to shoot, don't care to know(to much) if the call is right/wrong, and only have the basic knowledge of what a miss is and what a shooting out of sequence (P) is. We all know what should be, but after 30years, we have the same situation, just different players. Just a view. and it is still rather fun,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 The inadequate. improper calls by TO/RO's start at the home club monthlies and continue right up through the Big Matches. There will always be an influx of new, newer, and TO's that do not keep up with refreshers, or read the books, or keep up with the clarifications. Their intentions are good, but..... You may have a very knowledgeable PM on each posse, but they will not be there to make every call, nor should they. I should add, there is a significant percentage of shooters that are there, just to shoot, don't care to know(to much) if the call is right/wrong, and only have the basic knowledge of what a miss is and what a shooting out of sequence (P) is. We all know what should be, but after 30years, we have the same situation, just different players. Just a view. and it is still rather fun,,,,, yup!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korupt Karl Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Even if the RO isn;t sure or hasn't refreshed....It is always a good idea to have a RULE BOOK or a flow chart available.....there is no problem in telling the shooter that a call will have to be made, move to the UL table....hand off the timer and look at it in black and white and then show it to the shooter and assess the appropriate call. Just my too scents. KK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Even if the RO isn;t sure or hasn't refreshed....It is always a good idea to have a RULE BOOK or a flow chart available.....there is no problem in telling the shooter that a call will have to be made, move to the UL table....hand off the timer and look at it in black and white and then show it to the shooter and assess the appropriate call. Just my too scents. KK Now there's a novel concept! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 OK here's a twist. I don't think it made the shooter faster but. Pistols were last. You shoot first pistol at position A and move to position B and shoot the second pistol. Shooter shoots first pistol, lays it on the table moves to the second position, shoots second pistol. Holsters and walks back to the first pistol and holsters. Collects long guns and heads to the ULT. After some discussion everyone agreed it was OK because he holstered at the end of the shooting string for the pistols. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 ...and the T/O probably tried to make the shooter holster the first revolver before moving to the 2nd position...resulting in a RESHOOT for unnecessary "impeding". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 The definition of a "Shooting String" is on page 15 of your RO-I handbook. The discussion should be replaced by reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 The definition of a "Shooting String" is on page 15 of your RO-I handbook. The discussion should be replaced by reading. That definition was covered in the first referenced thread on post #4...yer a bit late with the suggestion to actually RT*M. ...besides, what else do we have to do today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 +1 At least they should read the HB's before attending the match. Case in point. At the Eastern Divisional LPL and I were BM's. A young shooter left one in his pistol and one live on the carrier. The next thing there was a big discussion a SDQ was given and someone wanted the MD. The first thing I asked was the round in the revolver under the hammer, the answer was no then no call. The next question was the live round in the chamber or on the carrier, the answer was on the carrier. I told them the call was 10 second minor safety. One has to wonder if inaccurate calls like this are assessed at the local monthly matches and shooters forget over time what the correct meaning of the rules are. Nawlins Nawlins, The live round in the pistols did warrant a call..... MISS. BUT... but no safety infraction. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 For mine the T.O. left the shooter alone and finish the stage. It was the spotters who questioned what he did. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackey Cole Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I think it's required to take a refresher class every two years now or at least what I was led to beleive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tn Tombstone Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Scrub Oak, you are on my posse at TN State, if there is any question I am not afraid to go to a higher source for clarification. I do keep up with rules and calls and if there is any question I will actually look at a flow chart.( Buck taught me that.) It will all be good this weekend. Looking forward to shooting with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Scrub Oak, you are on my posse at TN State, if there is any question I am not afraid to go to a higher source for clarification. I do keep up with rules and calls and if there is any question I will actually look at a flow chart.( Buck taught me that.) It will all be good this weekend. Looking forward to shooting with you. I agree with that. TN Tombstone doesn't walk around looking for ways to penalize folks. He's Top Cowboy all the way. You'll love being on his posse. You'll discover a very relaxed and fun atmosphere with Tombstone as Posse Marshal. You won't find a better Pard to shoot with. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 And you might get to see his Outlaw Crossed Pistols shots. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Nawlins, The live round in the pistols did warrant a call..... MISS. BUT... but no safety infraction. ..........Widder I think the call is two 5 second penalties for unfired rounds and a 10 second minor safety violation for the round on the carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 +1 At least they should read the HB's before attending the match. Case in point. At the Eastern Divisional LPL and I were BM's. A young shooter left one in his pistol and one live on the carrier. The next thing there was a big discussion a SDQ was given and someone wanted the MD. The first thing I asked was the round in the revolver under the hammer, the answer was no then no call. The next question was the live round in the chamber or on the carrier, the answer was on the carrier. I told them the call was 10 second minor safety. One has to wonder if inaccurate calls like this are assessed at the local monthly matches and shooters forget over time what the correct meaning of the rules are. Nawlins I think the call is two 5 second penalties for unfired rounds and a 10 second minor safety violation for the round on the carrier. Howdy Bill, My reference was solely directed to the pistol issue, of which Newlines stated as a no call. I quoted his post. Read his 1st para, 6th sentence concerning the live round left in the pistol. See you tomorrow at the TN State. SAFE TRAVELS. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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