Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 (No, it didn't happen to me or anyone I have been shooting with). If I've already started my stage run and the buckle on my SG BELT broke, causing my belt and SHELLs to fall to the ground, can I retrieve the belt and continue to finish my stage (implying that I will use those SG shells) without inquiring a penalty..... assuming no safety violations happened while I picked up my belt. Thanks ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I would think that after the posse got up off the floor and stopped laughing that a reshoot would be in order. Bet this is worth at least 3 pages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I would say yes as long as they stayed in the belt. If you drop a gun belt and the guns stay holstered they are not considered dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Why would that NOT fall under the MSV for retrieval of "dropped ammo"? SHB p.25 RO1 p.18-19 This is yet ONE MORE GOOD REASON to dispense with the penalty for retrieving dropped/ejected ammo. ...and without the restriction as to how far and/or from where those rounds might land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Hey Widder, I have a video of my shotgun belt doing just that, I squatted down a retrieved the belt guns were in holsters I got the penalty after all the laughing. I switched buckles as soon as I got home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 Thanks PWB. For what its worth, you probably just eliminated 3-4 pages of 'healthy Wire conversation'..... ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 If your gun belt falls but the pistols remain holstered can the shooter retrieve it or does the TO have to get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootin Straight Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Thanks PWB, and I agree. It just has no real meaning. If I drop ammo and want to use it, why not? Shootin Straight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 If your gun belt falls but the pistols remain holstered can the shooter retrieve it or does the TO have to get it? The "dropped gun" SDQ rule requires the T/O to retrieve it...but if the pistols are still holstered, they aren't considered DROPPED. Shooter may SAFELY retrieve gunbelt/holsters/revolvers and continue with the stage. That is NOT a reshoot situation. REF: SHB p.25 RO1 p.18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 The "dropped gun" SDQ rule requires the T/O to retrieve it...but if the pistols are still holstered, they aren't considered DROPPED. Shooter may SAFELY retrieve gunbelt/holsters/revolvers and continue with the stage. That is NOT a reshoot situation. REF: SHB p.25 RO1 p.18 Unless their gun belt contains a live cartridge in which case retrieving the belt is a minor safety correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 And is it just one minor safety for retrieving all of the rounds or one for each in the belt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Unless their gun belt contains a live cartridge in which case retrieving the belt is a minor safety correct? If the shooter's holsters are on the SG ammo belt (or the ammo slide is on the gunbelt), then, YES...it would seem that retrieval would fall under the MSV for retrieval of dropped ammo, but NOT the SDQ for dropped firearms. ...and, IMO, it would only be a SINGLE penalty if all of the ammo was retrieved by a single action. FWIW - There will be no rule change pending to cover this...how often does it actually happen? ...and if the Summit agenda item DELETING the MSV for all such ammo retrievals passes, the entire conversation will be moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackey Cole Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 You are responsible for your equipment. I had a belt that had a buckle that broke right before the match. I re buckle it thinking something old caused it to come unbuckled. I'm walking from the truck to the stage and it lets go again. Now this thing is beginning to piss me off. This time the third time I inspect the buckle and it was a cheap brass buckle that came on the belt. I took the one off my pants belt or a spare belt and swapped them out. But if it would have happened on the stage I'd picked it up and continued the best I could for the stage. My justification being if the vammo is still in the loops on the belt they are not dropped ammo just like the gun if they stay in the holsters are not dropped guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Why would that NOT fall under the MSV for retrieval of "dropped ammo"? SHB p.25 RO1 p.18-19 This is yet ONE MORE GOOD REASON to dispense with the penalty for retrieving dropped/ejected ammo. ...and without the restriction as to how far and/or from where those rounds might land. I'm going to state the obvious here so bare with me. If my gun belt falls and my pistols stay in the holsters they are not considered dropped and I may safely retrieve my gun belt with my pistols and no penalty will be assessed. If my SG belt falls off and all my ammo stays in the loops I may Not retrieve my belt without penalty because the ammo is considered dropped. Is that what we are saying here or am I off the reservation. Thanks MW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 This issue has gone to the ROC for a majority opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I'm going to state the obvious here so bare with me. If my gun belt falls and my pistols stay in the holsters they are not considered dropped and I may safely retrieve my gun belt with my pistols and no penalty will be assessed. If my SG belt falls off and all my ammo stays in the loops I may Not retrieve my belt without penalty because the ammo is considered dropped. Is that what we are saying here or am I off the reservation. Thanks MW That's right. There are exemptions in place concerning the pistols, none exist for the ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Thanks PWB. For what its worth, you probably just eliminated 3-4 pages of 'healthy Wire conversation'..... ..........Widder Wanna bet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Widder.................. Just remember who started this................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I would think that after the posse got up off the floor and stopped laughing that a reshoot would be in order. Bet this is worth at least 3 pages Don't count on that one Dave. Small monthly. Probably. But not a sure thing. Bigger match? No way. Better find a way to get through it and get a time. Or take a DNF. As once a round has gone down range. You own it. Belt falling off will not get you a reshoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozarks Ranger, SASS # 39553R Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 shot gun belt is to be worn at the belly button. Seems if you have had a problem before, put shells in a pouch or in your pocket incase the belt falls off. shells are to be staged or taken off of the body according to stage description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I'm going to state the obvious here so bare with me. If my gun belt falls and my pistols stay in the holsters they are not considered dropped and I may safely retrieve my gun belt with my pistols and no penalty will be assessed. If my SG belt falls off and all my ammo stays in the loops I may Not retrieve my belt without penalty because the ammo is considered dropped. Is that what we are saying here or am I off the reservation. Thanks MW +10000000000000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Hmmmmm...........Random thoughts Gun belt has cartridge loops for pistol/rifle and/or combo with shotgun shell loops Shotgun belt with rifle/pistol loops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 We've already touched on that one (see post #12) This ain't a "done deal" (yet). Personal opinions notwithstanding. REF: post #15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knarley Bob Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Shells scattered on the ground is one thing................... Not good Belt on the ground shells in loops another........... Not as bad Pistol on the ground is one thing.....................Not good Pistol in holster on ground is another...........Not as bad. What's the difference? Lack of consistancy in the rules. What covers one should cover the other. I'll be quiet now.............. Knarley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 We've already touched on that one (see post #12) This ain't a "done deal" (yet). Personal opinions notwithstanding. REF: post #15 I read that earlier................ate lunch between..........forgot! That's my story and sticking with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargo Bill, SASS #4942 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Thanks PWB, and I agree. It just has no real meaning. If I drop ammo and want to use it, why not? Shootin Straight I concur, BUT, the rules are not for me I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Don't count on that one Dave. Small monthly. Probably. But not a sure thing. Bigger match? No way. Better find a way to get through it and get a time. Or take a DNF. As once a round has gone down range. You own it. Belt falling off will not get you a reshoot. Thanks Al, I knew that. Posted what I did because I couldn't help myself and clicked post rather than refreshing the page. Besides, picturing in my mind a shooter of Widders caliber having a malfunction like that made me chuckle. My outlook on CAS is, for the most part, very different that most peoples. So I'll just sit back and see where this thread goes and learn something along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Thanks Al, I knew that. Posted what I did because I couldn't help myself and clicked post rather than refreshing the page. Besides, picturing in my mind a shooter of Widders caliber having a malfunction like that made me chuckle. My outlook on CAS is, for the most part, very different that most peoples. So I'll just sit back and see where this thread goes and learn something along the way. Oh I would have had a laugh at that also. Even if it was me having the problem. Or at least laugh after the next stage. I figured you probably knew that. But many don't. Something like that happens at a big one. And they just stop expecting a reshoot when one may not be coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 Dave, I would chuckle also ifn it happened to me..... But I would feel bad for someone giving it their best, having a great game, and then have a nice belt buckle break and create 20 seconds worth of misses because they might not be able to LEGALLY retrieve their SG belt. Thanks to PWB for checking it out and I'm sure he will inform us when the ROC makes their determination. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Bart Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Why would that NOT fall under the MSV for retrieval of "dropped ammo"? SHB p.25 RO1 p.18-19 This is yet ONE MORE GOOD REASON to dispense with the penalty for retrieving dropped/ejected ammo. ...and without the restriction as to how far and/or from where those rounds might land. From a total newcomer- SHB p.25 item 24 and RO1 p.18-19 item 24 both start with the sentence "Ammunition dropped by a shooter in the course of loading or reloading any firearm during a stage or "ejected" is considered "dead" and may not be recovered until the shooter completes the course of fire." Seems like a broken buckle (unless the shooter is in the process of pulling SG rounds to load) doesn't fit here. Anxious to see how this comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 From a total newcomer- SHB p.25 item 24 and RO1 p.18-19 item 24 both start with the sentence "Ammunition dropped by a shooter in the course of loading or reloading any firearm during a stage or "ejected" is considered "dead" and may not be recovered until the shooter completes the course of fire." Seems like a broken buckle (unless the shooter is in the process of pulling SG rounds to load) doesn't fit here. Anxious to see how this comes out. That may be the "out" for avoiding the penalty. Will likely have an ROC ruling on this by the end of the weekend. I'll be attending/shooting/w**king @ the Oregon State Match starting tomorrow thru Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I fully expect this to be on page 4 by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Dave, I would chuckle also ifn it happened to me..... But I would feel bad for someone giving it their best, having a great game, and then have a nice belt buckle break and create 20 seconds worth of misses because they might not be able to LEGALLY retrieve their SG belt. Thanks to PWB for checking it out and I'm sure he will inform us when the ROC makes their determination. ..........Widder I agree with the you 100% on the lost ammo issue. It also bothers me that in the act of clearing a jam every round that falls out onto the prop is dead. Oh I would have had a laugh at that also. Even if it was me having the problem. Or at least laugh after the next stage. I figured you probably knew that. But many don't. Something like that happens at a big one. And they just stop expecting a reshoot when one may not be coming. Heavens knows I have done my share of goofs. Best part is that I can have a trainwreck and still laugh about it. Best that comes to mind is reaching for my SG shells and finding the belt empty. Put my pistols on the prop where the SG was staged, ran to my cart, grabbed a handful, and ran back to finish the stage. Everyone got a good laugh at that one. Only thought of it because I had recently read of someone else doing the same thing as part of a WTC thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 I fully expect this to be on page 4 by then. By the time it gets to stage 4, the topic will probably be Blue Bell Ice Cream..... ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 By the time it gets to stage 4, the topic will probably be Blue Bell Ice Cream..... ..........Widder Widder....please make mine chocolate Kajun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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