Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

BJT

Shooting on the move

Recommended Posts

The issue keeping W3G from growing is the cost of targets. You need a lot of the steel plate targets with the bonus knockouts per stage. They do use some steel with a bonus overlay in front of the steel plate that allows multiple shots per target. It's been tried using some cardboard targets for bonus opportunities but it's not the same experience. I really like W3G. Smokin Gator

It's not just "cost per target". If you have a competent welder at your club, then it's not bad at all.

I started at a club that offered SASS and W3G, and I can tell you a big downside to W3G is all the targets. A SASS stage is usually done with a few pistol targets (2-4). A few rifle targets (2-4) and 4-6 shotgun targets. So a 6 stage match requires 12-24 pistol targets 12-24 rifle targets and 24-30 shotgun targets. If you use knockout targets you need 1per shot, usually the "overlay" style targets only get double taps. Most W3G matches I have seen require a lot more steel, more setup, and requires a lot more "reset" between shooters, however you still end up with the same number of voleentiers for setup and tear down. Cost is less of an issue than labor, especially for smaller clubs without a seperat "cowboy" range, or the ability to set up the day before the match.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not just "cost per target". If you have a competent welder at your club, then it's not bad at all.

I started at a club that offered SASS and W3G, and I can tell you a big downside to W3G is all the targets. A SASS stage is usually done with a few pistol targets (2-4). A few rifle targets (2-4) and 4-6 shotgun targets. So a 6 stage match requires 12-24 pistol targets 12-24 rifle targets and 24-30 shotgun targets. If you use knockout targets you need 1per shot, usually the "overlay" style targets only get double taps. Most W3G matches I have seen require a lot more steel, more setup, and requires a lot more "reset" between shooters, however you still end up with the same number of voleentiers for setup and tear down. Cost is less of an issue than labor, especially for smaller clubs without a seperat "cowboy" range, or the ability to set up the day before the match.

I know steel is more fun to shoot, but using cardboard and taping the holes might make for a good W3G style match.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know steel is more fun to shoot, but using cardboard and taping the holes might make for a good W3G style match.

Hi Bill,

 

That is how it was done at my local club and now I've shot at Deadwood Boys, home of W3G. I prefer metal. I'd rather see a cardboard template for repainting metal targets. What I'm thinking of is a circle to cover the white, when painting the black (or dark color). A square (or whatever shape) with a circle cut out for painting the white. With this there is no need to have those special double tap targets with the circle that is mounted as an overlay.

 

Then, all you need to make targets special for W3G are the targets with the drop-down centers. Those could be used for CAS too. Fun!

 

Regards,

 

Allie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But how is that defined. Do both feet need to be planted through the string. Seems simple but it really isn't. If we allow some movement which the old rule did then we need more information to apply the new rule. One TG said if both feet weren't planted while shooting that's a SDQ but other TGs don't see it that way. As far as I know and maybe I missed it the ROC has yet to answer these questions. I think they probably need a little time to work out the wording.

Look up ( in dictionary) the definition of 'movement' and see how it applies to planted foot/feet and then look up the basketball travel rule and how you can move one foot and designate the other foot as the pivot foot. CAS says the basketball travel rule (movement) is acceptable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good day all,

I am relatively new to CAS, but have decent experience shooting various other disciplines from the conservative and structured IDPA to wide open free thinking 3 gun to include running the timer on stages and calling penalties. Some of the worst gun handling I have seen has been in the heavily structured matches. The more fast paced matches are generally favored by more proficient shooters due to the more complex mental puzzle.

 

After eight pages of discussion, I may have missed it, but the mention of trigger finger control is left out. Moving with a finger off the trigger while maintaining positive muzzle discipline downrange is all that is necessary to allow moving while shooting in a stage or match. "Fingers are to be kept clear of trigger guards while moving or while not actually engaging targets.

 

Nothing in SASS rules address about keeping finger off trigger guard. Right-wrong or indifferent. Real good rule for semi-auto guns, not as critical with single action guns that are not cocked. but this is a whole different topic.

 

 

Failure to do so will result in a SDQ." You the shooter are responsible for navigating the stage at a speed where you can maintain control of your muzzles and fingers. This speed will be different for younger folks as opposed to older folks. This is a fact of life and doesn't need a rule to even it out; that is what age categories are for.

 

As a shooter, I agree with the several shooters who do not oppose the allowance of shooting on the move including one who was gracious enough to see its merits although he did not flirt with it. It will speed up the matches in the wake of those who seem to require perfect conditions to release every single shot with deliberation that would make one suspect their bullets were cast of gold. That said, clean match celebration and recognition is a keeper because it gives everyone something to strive for, especially the slower shooters and beginners.

 

I am not and presume others are not opposed to shooting on the move, but according to SASS rules, it isn't allowed. Comply with the rules until they are changed.

 

As a timer operator/RO, I think this rule is about as silly and frustrating to watch for and enforce as the old round dump rule in IDPA.

 

Not necessarily silly but is frustrating. Stage writers shouldn't write stages so vague with this hard to enforce action.

 

This has an effect on the flow of the match when you have to deal with this frustration on both sides of the score sheet. It should be further noted that it is a real annoyance to hear folks at a match lamenting about a talented shooter cheating when the root of the comment is clearly envy and lack of comparable ability.

 

Not necessarily, the shooter could very well be cheating by not intentionally complying with the rules because it is flustrating to spot and enforce. Do you buy into the idea of " if it doesn't say I specifically can not do it, then I can?"

Another case would be a gunfighter pullling both triggers simutaneously and it sounds like one shot. Again, another topic.

 

Rules should be written in such a way as not to scream, "You can't do it because I can't do it."

 

Rules are guidelines to what is acceptable/unacceptable in that sport.

 

I felt like this fella made some good points that should be remembered. Thanks for your time.

Best,

Carolina Gunslinger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing in SASS rules address about keeping finger off trigger guard. Right-wrong or indifferent. Real good rule for semi-auto guns, not as critical with single action guns that are not cocked. but this is a whole different topic.

Shooting on the move is the future of the sport. If it is to grow it will have to realize that this is a necessary allowance. So there will be folks moving with cocked weapons at some points during the stage. You can't tell me that it wouldn't be nice to watch a smooth shooter burn down a stage shooting on the move.

 

 

I am not and presume others are not opposed to shooting on the move, but according to SASS rules, it isn't allowed. Comply with the rules until they are changed.

 

I intend to. How's the weather on that tall horse? I'm allowed to argue for my opinion. Don't presume you can influence my actions or allude that my breakdown and aggressive approach constitutes infractions of the rules. This is not IDPA; cowboys figure it out and make it work!😉

 

Not necessarily silly but is frustrating. Stage writers shouldn't write stages so vague with this hard to enforce action.

 

Stage writing is difficult to be good at, especially if you have a narrow minded approach to the stages. A great stage writer can break down every category's approach and game each and then rewrite it to allow or disallow the shortcuts. Also you need to figure shot angles, transitions, and potential 170 issues...etc.

 

Not necessarily, the shooter could very well be cheating by not intentionally complying with the rules because it is flustrating to spot and enforce. Do you buy into the idea of " if it doesn't say I specifically can not do it, then I can?"

 

Yes. It is fun to solve the puzzle any way that is not prohibited. I have been shortstrawed by spotters before, so I put more powder in the shells and carried on as best I could. I am going to do whatever I can to get the benefit of the doubt including asking a spotter where a miss ended up. If it's one shot I expect an attentive person to be able to tell me where it went. I can tell you where you groups are hitting so I don't feel bad about asking someone, who is by job description, supposed to be paying attention.

 

Another case would be a gunfighter pullling both triggers simutaneously and it sounds like one shot. Again, another topic.

 

I agree on that rule to a "T". I personally HATE missing and having hits called as misses. So I do everything I can to get a hit to be seen and counted.

 

Rules are guidelines to what is acceptable/unacceptable in that sport.

 

Rules need to be vetted for relevance from time to time to keep the sport progressing. Shooting on the move should be allowed to cause a skill progression in the shooter body.

 

Best,

Carolina Gunslinger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shooting on the move? YEEEEE HAAAAAW! :D:P:lol:

 

http://youtu.be/-oHtrxvGx74

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shooting on the move? YEEEEE HAAAAAW! :D:P:lol:

 

Now that looks fun. I bet in that sport they don't argue often over picking up a dropped round. 😄

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've heard shooting Jack Rabbits while seated on the hood of a moving car gives you about the same adrenaline rush.

 

Just saying ;)

Shooting Jack Rabbits out the window of a pickup while driving up the ranch road. Thus, shooting while moving. Coyotes need to eat too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look up ( in dictionary) the definition of 'movement' and see how it applies to planted foot/feet and then look up the basketball travel rule and how you can move one foot and designate the other foot as the pivot foot. CAS says the basketball travel rule (movement) is acceptable.

But unlike basketball when the round is fired and the gun is in a safe conditon to move then we can move both feet again.

 

Stan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But unlike basketball when the round is fired and the gun is in a safe conditon to move then we can move both feet again.

 

Stan

That is how I take it too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But unlike basketball when the round is fired and the gun is in a safe conditon to move then we can move both feet again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stan

I think we are comfortable waiting for the ROC to clear up a few of the questions. But some try to over simplify it. I don't think these people understand when you allow movement in some rules "safe for movement " "basketball rule " then say you can't move while shooting is contradictory. You and I have asked some very simple questions to this rule clarification with no ROC answer. This leads me to believe that they are working hard to get the wording just right. Like I said earlier some TOs think both feet have to be planted to shoot and some don't. That's the only question I have. I understand they don't want us to shoot from point a to b but there is more to it than that. The shooting from point a to b doesn't happen very often but both feet being planted the whole time at one posistion is something that will come up at every stage. I do have a preference but will play by the rules as soon as it's clear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we are comfortable waiting for the ROC to clear up a few of the questions. But some try to over simplify it. I don't think these people understand when you allow movement in some rules "safe for movement " "basketball rule " then say you can't move while shooting is contradictory. You and I have asked some very simple questions to this rule clarification with no ROC answer. This leads me to believe that they are working hard to get the wording just right. Like I said earlier some TOs think both feet have to be planted to shoot and some don't. That's the only question I have. I understand they don't want us to shoot from point a to b but there is more to it than that. The shooting from point a to b doesn't happen very often but both feet being planted the whole time at one posistion is something that will come up at every stage. I do have a preference but will play by the rules as soon as it's clear.

+1

I'm sure they are working hard on the answers.

 

Stan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we are comfortable waiting for the ROC to clear up a few of the questions. But some try to over simplify it. I don't think these people understand when you allow movement in some rules "safe for movement " "basketball rule " then say you can't move while shooting is contradictory. You and I have asked some very simple questions to this rule clarification with no ROC answer. This leads me to believe that they are working hard to get the wording just right. Like I said earlier some TOs think both feet have to be planted to shoot and some don't. That's the only question I have. I understand they don't want us to shoot from point a to b but there is more to it than that. The shooting from point a to b doesn't happen very often but both feet being planted the whole time at one posistion is something that will come up at every stage. I do have a preference but will play by the rules as soon as it's clear.

+1

I'm sure they are working hard on the answers.

 

Stan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Nothing in SASS rules address about keeping finger off trigger guard. Right-wrong or indifferent. Real good rule for semi-auto guns, not as critical with single action guns that are not cocked. but this is a whole different topic.

Shooting on the move is the future of the sport. If it is to grow it will have to realize that this is a necessary allowance. So there will be folks moving with cocked weapons at some points during the stage. You can't tell me that it wouldn't be nice to watch a smooth shooter burn down a stage shooting on the move.

 

I don't believe shooting on the move is the future nor will be the drawing card for very many new shooters. Could 'shooting on the move' enhance the hobby to some? Yes, a few. 'Shoot and move' is already allowed and done. As Brother Kings post ed about his son, the 3Gun video was more appealing that CAS. Why? I enjoy seeing a good shooter do his gun transitions and loading/firing his SG. Plus a good GF handle two pistols at same time, and the BP shooters with full loads engaging the targets with smoke & fire. And ladies and children enjoying the hobby.

 

 

I am not and presume others are not opposed to shooting on the move, but according to SASS rules, it isn't allowed. Comply with the rules until they are changed.

 

I intend to. How's the weather on that tall horse? I'm allowed to argue for my opinion. Don't presume you can influence my actions or allude that my breakdown and aggressive approach constitutes infractions of the rules. This is not IDPA; cowboys figure it out and make it work!

 

Everyone is welcome to express their opinion. I really don't care to influence your thoughts, just hope that all rules are followed.

 

Not necessarily silly but is frustrating. Stage writers shouldn't write stages so vague with this hard to enforce action.

 

Stage writing is difficult to be good at, especially if you have a narrow minded approach to the stages. A great stage writer can break down every category's approach and game each and then rewrite it to allow or disallow the shortcuts. Also you need to figure shot angles, transitions, and potential 170 issues...etc.

 

Stage writing is difficult to get across in written form, to the shooters your intent of what you want the stage to be and to be crystal clear what is allowed and what isn't , how much freedom/creativity and so forth...Plus be fair to realitively (sp) all shooting styles (GF, duelist, left/right handed, what flavor of SG is being used.)

 

Not necessarily, the shooter could very well be cheating by not intentionally complying with the rules because it is flustrating to spot and enforce. Do you buy into the idea of " if it doesn't say I specifically can not do it, then I can?"

 

Yes. It is fun to solve the puzzle any way that is not prohibited. I have been shortstrawed by spotters before, so I put more powder in the shells and carried on as best I could.

 

Hit the target dead center with sufficient force to make a clang and you will do fine. People that play the edger game are subject to miss calls.

 

I am going to do whatever I can to get the benefit of the doubt including asking a spotter where a miss ended up. If it's one shot I expect an attentive person to be able to tell me where it went. I can tell you where you groups are hitting so I don't feel bad about asking someone, who is by job description, supposed to be paying attention.

Do whatever I can to get the benefit of the doubt? That speaks volumes. And not for the good in my view.

Another case would be a gunfighter pullling both triggers simutaneously and it sounds like one shot. Again, another topic.

 

I agree on that rule to a "T". I personally HATE missing and having hits called as misses. So I do everything I can to get a hit to be seen and counted.

 

I personally don't have a problem with GF pulling both pistols, but I believe there is a rule stating there must be a distinct seperation between shots.

 

Rules are guidelines to what is acceptable/unacceptable in that sport.

 

Rules need to be vetted for relevance from time to time to keep the sport progressing. Shooting on the move should be allowed to cause a skill progression in the shooter body.

 

There are already methods to modify the rules and has been witnessed, it is used nearly every year. Did you get into a new sport that the existing rules no longer agree with you?

 

Best,

Carolina Gunslinger

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First off, thanks to Blast master for engaging me in this discussion. I have come to really respect your answers. Thank you.

 

I don't believe shooting on the move is the future nor will be the drawing card for very many new shooters. Could 'shooting on the move' enhance the hobby to some? Yes, a few. 'Shoot and move' is already allowed and done. As Brother Kings post ed about his son, the 3Gun video was more appealing that CAS. Why? I enjoy seeing a good shooter do his gun transitions and loading/firing his SG. Plus a good GF handle two pistols at same time, and the BP shooters with full loads engaging the targets with smoke & fire. And ladies and children enjoying the hobby.

I agree on most of the above, but what will the drawing card be if not shooting on the move? Something clearly must be done to get the younger crowd into the sport. 49ers turn into seniors and they can't be expected to move steel forever. Which is one of my concerns seeing the club dynamic of mostly older members.

 

 

 

 

Everyone is welcome to express their opinion. I really don't care to influence your thoughts, just hope that all rules are followed.

 

Misread you originally. Please accept my apologies.

 

 

Stage writing is difficult to get across in written form, to the shooters your intent of what you want the stage to be and to be crystal clear what is allowed and what isn't , how much freedom/creativity and so forth...Plus be fair to realitively (sp) all shooting styles (GF, duelist, left/right handed, what flavor of SG is being used.)

 

I see what you mean. I feel like shooting on the move and being able to move with a loaded and cocked gun is a way to expand the stages a bit and make them less static strings of fire. I am crazy/adventurous enough to write a fifteen round rifle stage where loading on the move would be to a competitor's advantage. However with the current rules it is sketchy to do so because if someone forgets to drop the hammer before they move an empty gun...bad news.

 

Hit the target dead center with sufficient force to make a clang and you will do fine. People that play the edger game are subject to miss calls.

 

True and I respect that however I want to as a competitor and match staff ensure that the calls are fair and spotters aren't looking at other spotters before raising fingers.

 

Do whatever I can to get the benefit of the doubt? That speaks volumes. And not for the good in my view.

 

I was a gamer when I got here. If it's truly a P or a miss, I can live with that, no problem. If there is a way to do it better or faster that isn't illegal, I am all over it. If there is a tie or a doubt, I believe it should always go to the shooter, no matter who it is. I feel that this is the best way. I am not going to call penalties on myself and will ensure that the peanut gallery doesn't call them effectively either. This isn't golf and we have match staff for that. As an RO I can't stop a match to rethink a call or ask advice from the gallery before making one. That is what the appeals process is for.

 

 

 

I personally don't have a problem with GF pulling both pistols, but I believe there is a rule stating there must be a distinct seperation between shots.

 

There is a rule and your edger comment fits here also.

 

There are already methods to modify the rules and has been witnessed, it is used nearly every year. Did you get into a new sport that the existing rules no longer agree with you?

 

Not what I mean. I am looking to start the movement to allow shooting on the move to expand the stage complexity without DQ traps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've heard shooting Jack Rabbits while seated on the hood of a moving car gives you about the same adrenaline rush.

 

Just saying ;)

Gad, when I was about 14 or 15, we made a lot of money (at least we thought it was). We drove up and down old WW II runways chasing Jack Rabbits sitting on the fender of a car (yes back then we had fenders on cars) shooting 22 rifles. We paid about a $ 0.01 per 22 round and sold the rabbits for $ 0.10 per jack rabbit. Guy had the worst smelling business in the country, a radiator shop and a rabbit processing facility. He skinned the rabbits for fur and ground the meat for mink fook. If we hit a high percentage of our shots it paid for gasoline with cash left over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gad, when I was about 14 or 15, we made a lot of money (at least we thought it was). We drove up and down old WW II runways chasing Jack Rabbits sitting on the fender of a car (yes back then we had fenders on cars) shooting 22 rifles. We paid about a $ 0.01 per 22 round and sold the rabbits for $ 0.10 per jack rabbit. Guy had the worst smelling business in the country, a radiator shop and a rabbit processing facility. He skinned the rabbits for fur and ground the meat for mink fook. If we hit a high percentage of our shots it paid for gasoline with cash left over.

Yep!!

 

Nothing like a shooter on each front fender + shooters standing in the back of the bed (if using a PU truck). Feet were planted so it must have been safe. LOL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First off, thanks to Blast master for engaging me in this discussion. I have come to really respect your answers. Thank you.

 

I don't believe shooting on the move is the future nor will be the drawing card for very many new shooters. Could 'shooting on the move' enhance the hobby to some? Yes, a few. 'Shoot and move' is already allowed and done. As Brother Kings post ed about his son, the 3Gun video was more appealing that CAS. Why? I enjoy seeing a good shooter do his gun transitions and loading/firing his SG. Plus a good GF handle two pistols at same time, and the BP shooters with full loads engaging the targets with smoke & fire. And ladies and children enjoying the hobby.

I agree on most of the above, but what will the drawing card be if not shooting on the move? Something clearly must be done to get the younger crowd into the sport. 49ers turn into seniors and they can't be expected to move steel forever. Which is one of my concerns seeing the club dynamic of mostly older members.

 

Yep!! Same concern (aging population without incoming newbies )has been noted for the last few years w/o a solid idea. The cowboy attraction is fading with the aging population and the newbies(majority of) are not interested in single action firearms nor the aging crowd.

 

 

 

Everyone is welcome to express their opinion. I really don't care to influence your thoughts, just hope that all rules are followed.

 

Misread you originally. Please accept my apologies.

 

Accepted!

 

 

Stage writing is difficult to get across in written form, to the shooters your intent of what you want the stage to be and to be crystal clear what is allowed and what isn't , how much freedom/creativity and so forth...Plus be fair to realitively (sp) all shooting styles (GF, duelist, left/right handed, what flavor of SG is being used.)

 

I see what you mean. I feel like shooting on the move and being able to move with a loaded and cocked gun is a way to expand the stages a bit and make them less static strings of fire. I am crazy/adventurous enough to write a fifteen round rifle stage where loading on the move would be to a competitor's advantage. However with the current rules it is sketchy to do so because if someone forgets to drop the hammer before they move an empty gun...bad news.

 

The majority of the present SASS members like it easy and want instant satisfaction reward with minimal effort. Meaning, they want to hear the clang w/o too many misses or P's or difficult maneuvers (reloads, poppers, etc) = big & close targets and lots of categories. venture too far off that path and majority of present partisipating folks will not come back. hmmmm, that should raise some folks off their stools. LOL>

Hit the target dead center with sufficient force to make a clang and you will do fine. People that play the edger game are subject to miss calls.

 

True and I respect that however I want to as a competitor and match staff ensure that the calls are fair and spotters aren't looking at other spotters before raising fingers.

 

You get what you get as far as spotters and their degree of attention/fair calls and knowledge of the rules.?. Sometimes you are the bug and sometimes you are the windshield as far as calls. You or me nor anybody else can ensure they get spot on calls,,,, unless you hand select your posse with good friends. Then what does that do for the rest of the posses?

 

Do whatever I can to get the benefit of the doubt? That speaks volumes. And not for the good in my view.

 

I was a gamer when I got here. If it's truly a P or a miss, I can live with that, no problem.

 

And if it isn't truly a P?

 

 

If there is a way to do it better or faster that isn't illegal, I am all over it.

That is good, but just how far do you bend the rules is the question or how etically do you want to be or not to be?

 

If a shooter says " hold by water bottle, watch this, and this is what I am going to do, is it OK?' and then does it.. Bravo for him. You don't see that much.

 

If there is a tie or a doubt, I believe it should always go to the shooter, no matter who it is.

Already in place and the BOD is sometimes very abuesed.

 

I feel that this is the best way. I am not going to call penalties on myself

A person with integrity would.

and will ensure that the peanut gallery doesn't call them effectively either.

I'll hold your water bottle cause I want to see how you do that. LOL

This isn't golf and we have match staff for that. As an RO I can't stop a match to rethink a call or ask advice from the gallery before making one.

I can rethink it while walking back to score keeper with final clock time. I can/will pole the spotters. I will even ask some trusted posse members for adive about what the penalty would be for some wierd situation. Can be accomplished before the stage is reset for the next shooter.. Then there is the appeals process.

 

That is what the appeals process is for.

 

 

 

I personally don't have a problem with GF pulling both pistols, but I believe there is a rule stating there must be a distinct seperation between shots.

 

There is a rule and your edger comment fits here also.

 

There are already methods to modify the rules and has been witnessed, it is used nearly every year. Did you get into a new sport that the existing rules no longer agree with you?

 

Not what I mean. I am looking to start the movement to allow shooting on the move to expand the stage complexity without DQ traps.

 

Carry on. The FCGF folks just got a new category passed with 5+years of effort. It can be done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At this point in the discussion, I want to reiterate again that WE HAVE BEEN DOING IT (that is, shooting between A and B, doing the shooting on the move but not traveling and allowing foot movement between shots as long as both feet don't move while the gun is cocked.)

 

We have been doing it in this region for YEARS. For AS LONG AS I HAVE BEEN DOING THIS (almost 6 years) it has been the norm.

 

No complaints. No problems. No major pushback from older shooters. No safety issues.

 

The shooters have been used to it and enjoying it for a long time now.

 

It has been in place. It wasn't theoretical. It was proven in practice.

 

All of this was measured against the traveling rule as it was then clarified.

 

No one was complaining of SASS matches looking like W3G, because it was NOT anything like W3G. It was SASS, with a little movement allowed here and there. Held in good constraint by the way the traveling rule was defined before this latest clarification.

 

We now have a clarification that requires too much opinion as to the means of measurement of what "in constant motion" is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I was a gamer when I got here. If it's truly a P or a miss, I can live with that, no problem.

 

And if it isn't truly a P?

 

Then I've been P'd on and I'm liable to get P'd off....LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello,

 

I thought I understood the clarification when I got it. However, some of the comments on this thread have confused me.

 

Here is the clarification I received. Have all of you discussing it seen it verbatim? Bold is mine.

"The rules for movement (Basketball Traveling rule) does not relate to shooting on the move. Shooting on the move is expressly disallowed. The "basketball traveling rule" was originally intended to pertain to a competitor who inadvertently cocks a firearm in a position other than the designated firing position or was moving both feet whilst engaging targets at the firing position. One foot may be moved to adjust stance or correct balance. The Basketball Traveling rule was not intended to relate to multiple movements between shots (e.g. shooting multiple shots during continuous movement)."

 

In this thread, some people have stated they've done certain things for a long time. Remember that doesn't make them correct. I remember a fellow who told me he bought his (illegal double layer) ammo slde at EOT over 10 years ago. That did not make it legal.

 

As I see this, you reach the designated shooting position, when both feet on the ground, you may then cock and pull the trigger or eject, cock and pull the trigger (if you had an empty in the closed long gun).

 

Am I missing something that needs clarification? :unsure:

 

Regards,

 

Allie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems like they are saying that once you have a gun with a closed cocked action you may move one foot only to stabilize/adjust your shooting position. They should add both feet must be on the ground when you fire the gun. This would preclude shooting WHILE moving.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello,

 

I thought I understood the clarification when I got it. However, some of the comments on this thread have confused me.

 

Here is the clarification I received. Have all of you discussing it seen it verbatim? Bold is mine.

"The rules for movement (Basketball Traveling rule) does not relate to shooting on the move. Shooting on the move is expressly disallowed. The "basketball traveling rule" was originally intended to pertain to a competitor who inadvertently cocks a firearm in a position other than the designated firing position or was moving both feet whilst engaging targets at the firing position. One foot may be moved to adjust stance or correct balance. The Basketball Traveling rule was not intended to relate to multiple movements between shots (e.g. shooting multiple shots during continuous movement)."

 

In this thread, some people have stated they've done certain things for a long time. Remember that doesn't make them correct. I remember a fellow who told me he bought his (illegal double layer) ammo slde at EOT over 10 years ago. That did not make it legal.

 

As I see this, you reach the designated shooting position, when both feet on the ground, you may then cock and pull the trigger or eject, cock and pull the trigger (if you had an empty in the closed long gun).

 

Am I missing something that needs clarification? :unsure:

 

Regards,

 

Allie

Where in the rule book or the clarification does it say that both feet have to be on the ground? And what if there is no designated shooting position?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No where else could a CLARIFICATION confuse things so much!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you can not define a shooting procedure for the mass of pards to easily AND enforce/reward/understand, then don't allow it (anywhere between point A and pointB) B).

 

Settle down now! lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Allie,

 

I think that what most folks are wondering if the plant, take ½ step, (moving one foot) while shooting, complete the step, planting 1st foot again at a new location, and then while taking the next ½ step, racking/closing the action/cocking a pistol and firing will still be allowed. Could be wrong, but that's how I'm interpreting it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello,

 

I thought I understood the clarification when I got it. However, some of the comments on this thread have confused me.

 

Here is the clarification I received. Have all of you discussing it seen it verbatim? Bold is mine.

"The rules for movement (Basketball Traveling rule) does not relate to shooting on the move. Shooting on the move is expressly disallowed. The "basketball traveling rule" was originally intended to pertain to a competitor who inadvertently cocks a firearm in a position other than the designated firing position or was moving both feet whilst engaging targets at the firing position. One foot may be moved to adjust stance or correct balance. The Basketball Traveling rule was not intended to relate to multiple movements between shots (e.g. shooting multiple shots during continuous movement)."

 

In this thread, some people have stated they've done certain things for a long time. Remember that doesn't make them correct. I remember a fellow who told me he bought his (illegal double layer) ammo slde at EOT over 10 years ago. That did not make it legal.

 

As I see this, you reach the designated shooting position, when both feet on the ground, you may then cock and pull the trigger or eject, cock and pull the trigger (if you had an empty in the closed long gun).

 

Am I missing something that needs clarification? :unsure:

 

Regards,

 

Allie

There's my confusion .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi again,

 

I got my "both feet on the ground" thought from where the rule said, "Shooting on the move is expressly disallowed." If I had one foot off the ground, wouldn't I be in the process of moving? I would not be considered standing still, would I?

 

Regards,

 

Allie :ph34r:;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what happened to the basketball rule that you quoted. From what I understand they don't want us to shoot from a to b but isn't that rule still in effect while I am at pos a. I haven't heard that the basketball rule is gone altogether have you?

 

PS. I'm not trying to argue with anybody on this because I feel there's more to come. What concerns me is while we are waiting there is going to be inconsistent calls. I can tell you right now I don't see where the basketball rule is gone altogether. If a shooter plants the first foot then slam fires his 97 while his second foot is still in motion my response is going to be a no call. Now if the ROC says two feet have to be planted to Fire then that's that.

PPS. Many people for many years have been moving one foot while arriving at a posistion or leaving it. This has always been legal and "I" don't think this clarification was about that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what happened to the basketball rule that you quoted. From what I understand they don't want us to shoot from a to b but isn't that rule still in effect while I am at pos a. I haven't heard that the basketball rule is gone altogether have you?

Hi MW,

 

"One foot may be moved to adjust stance or correct balance. The Basketball Traveling rule was not intended to relate to multiple movements between shots (e.g. shooting multiple shots during continuous movement).

 

I quoted the clarification. The BT rule, from the preceding statement in the clarification, appears to be defined as one step (foot movement to adjust balance or stance) not a series of steps (multiple movements) between shots.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whether the basketball rule "resets" itself after every shot from the firearm in use, or after firing all the shots required at that position (position possibly being more than one stride wide) seems to be the key. I believe the BT rule applies to the second of those two situations, not to the first.

 

We almost always write stages to clearly require the second interpretation - shoot anywhere you wish between A and B, but once you fire the first, you have chosen the position for all the shots in this segment of the stage.

 

Good luck, GJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sooo what's your call on my PS?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.