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BJT

Shooting on the move

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Before folks start blaming the voting TGs, here are some interesting facts.

 

Less than 1/3 of total SASS clubs were represented. That was 239 clubs, including proxies.

 

The dropped round rule only lost by six votes. This means it can be on the agenda next year.

 

Ask your TGs if they were there or sent a proxy.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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ok, just blame the TGs and clubs that voted agin it!!!!

 

Let's discuss doing away with the traveling rule, and vote on that next convention!!

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What the clarification was reacting to was shooters who were walking/running/skipping/hopping from A to B and shooting with no clear hesitation or foot planting before cocking or putting the rifle/shotgun into battery and then shooting. The TO's and others can't watch feet, what the shooter is doing, and all of the other responsibilities of the TO. I understand it as move as per the rules, plant one foot, cock pistol, put rifle or shotgun into battery, shoot, move per the rules, and repeat.

 

 

The follow-up question is how long do the feet have to stop movement to be considered planted?

 

hesitation
[hez-i-tey-shuh n] /ˌhɛz ɪˈteɪ ʃən/

 

noun
1. the act of hesitating; a delay due to uncertainty of mind or fear:
His hesitation cost him the championship.
2. a state of doubt or uncertainty.
hesitate
verb (used without object), hesitated, hesitating.
1. to be reluctant or wait to act because of fear, indecision, or disinclination:
She hesitated to take the job.
3. to pause:
I hesitated before reciting the next line.
pause
noun
1. a temporary stop or rest, especially in speech or action:
a short pause after each stroke of the oar.
2. a cessation of activity because of doubt or uncertainty; a momentary hesitation.

3. any comparatively brief stop, delay, wait, etc.:

I would like to make a pause in my talk and continue after lunch.
My point is none of the definitions specify how long the delay, wait or stop must be.

 

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Before folks start blaming the voting TGs, here are some interesting facts.

 

Less than 1/3 of total SASS clubs were represented. That was 239 clubs, including proxies.

 

The dropped round rule only lost by six votes. This means it can be on the agenda next year.

 

Ask your TGs if they were there or sent a proxy.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

 

 

:( thats pretty lame

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Yes we do let anyone shoot gunfighter, now, but back in the day, you needed to being qualified to shoot gunfighter. In the July 1999 version of the Shooters Handbook, SASS deleted the requirement for the Qualification Card required to shoot Gunfighter. You know lots more of the oldtimers than I do, ask them about it. I got this information from PaleWolf Brunelle.

 

As to the issue at hand, I haven't SEEN anyone run while shooting SASS, but that is specifically the issue that was raised during the discussions at the TG meeting. The example I used was exactly the issue as presented. Apparantly, someone who is a top shooter, has done this or is doing this. I don't recall if they said he did it in a match or just practice, but is was the basis of the discussion.

 

I do believe that shooting on the move has a big potential for "Boo-Boo's" to happen. I have seen many a top shooter hit the dirt when running between positions, but many more average shooters slip and fall just moving between positions or step on an uneven spot or big rock and go down. The reality of this situation is that the Match Directors can totally prevent movement while shooting with appropraite stage design, so even if the rule were modified to allow movement, it would still be preventable if either the Match Director didn't want it or the Range Rules didn't allow it.

I know...or am pretty darn sure I know how all this came up. And NO, there was ZERO running. In fact, the movement between positions (With a Rifle I might add), was far more slower then if he didn't shoot on the move and rather shot the Rifle and then sprinted to the Shotgun.

 

I think the problem is that most of ya don't have personal knowledge of how shooting on the move is done. Seems as though y'all think that the shooter moves rapidly. Can't be further from the truth.

 

I'm all for removing the traveling rule. I think it would be good for the game. Let the stage writers put some options in the stage designs and let the shooter decide what will be most affective for them.

 

This isn't a safety issue at all when compared to running around with spurs on...or sprinting around props...

 

Phantom

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Posted · Hidden by Colonel Dan, SASS #24025, January 19, 2015 - No reason given
Hidden by Colonel Dan, SASS #24025, January 19, 2015 - No reason given

Oh, and I heard that some TG's are referring to those here on the Normal Wire as juvenile debate club...or something like that.

 

You know...like the "Usual Suspects" stirring the Pot...

 

Heaven forbid that the Low Life General SASS Public have a differing view of a subject that was thoroughly discussed by some TG's.

 

And NO, this is NOT a knock on TG's!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Anyway...just some garbage that I heard about...sad what some of them think of us.

 

:(

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Why are TGs who choose not to fulfill their duty by representing their members still allowed by SASS to continue to hold the position?

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Ask the members who put them in that position, it's not the job of SASS to police them, but the members who voted them in to hold them accountable.

 

KK

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Ask the members who put them in that position, it's not the job of SASS to police them, but the members who voted them in to hold them accountable.No

 

KK

Now watch, we ain't gunna "Horse Whip" ya for your comment.

 

;)

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Now watch, we ain't gunna "Horse Whip" ya for your comment.

 

;)

Good one :excl:

 

KK

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Why are TGs who choose not to fulfill their duty by representing their members still allowed by SASS to continue to hold the position?

The bigger question is why do Clubs still allow TGs to continue to hold their position when they choose not to fulfill their duty.

 

There are many possibilities.

 

Expense

Time/scheduling

 

Sure, there is the proxy process and it is fairly easy, as Miss Allie pointed out above. It isn't SASS' fault TGs don't fulfill their duties. The responsibility rests with the (non)represented club.

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I am not saying that it is SASS's fault or even their responsibility but I suspect that some of them are re elected based on popularity more than performance. I would be willing to bet that at most clubs TG elections have more votes cast than they do the ballots with the voting items for the summit. I just hate to see someone who actually cares about the summit items not having a voice because someone is not doing their job.

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The bigger question is why do Clubs still allow TGs to continue to hold their position when they choose not to fulfill their duty.

 

There are many possibilities.

 

Expense

Time/scheduling

 

Sure, there is the proxy process and it is fairly easy, as Miss Allie pointed out above. It isn't SASS' fault TGs don't fulfill their duties. The responsibility rests with the (non)represented club.

I couldn't agree more.

 

But I do think that the issue of the "Travel Rule" shouldn't be just pushed aside just because the TG's discussed it and the WB clarified it. Sure, the intent is understood. But should the issue be re-thought by the WB?

 

Shooting on the move is not all that much of an issue...really. It's rarely done because it's very hard to do effectively and SASS have very few stage layouts where it would be beneficial. Eliminating it (Travel Rule), would make calls more consistent and would allow the TO to concentrate on more important things.

 

These are thoughts...honest ones that are being thrown out here by a bunch of folks that care about the game and are not just a bunch of Wire Idjuts stirring the pot or disrespecting the work that those TG's and the WB did at the Summit.

 

Phantom

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Phantom. video is better than a million words

 

;) AO

There's a video of MB shooting at my home club (Plum Creek) during the summer (so if you see it, don't go off on the costuming cuz we have relaxed summer rules). If you can post that, you'd see how dangerous it can be to shoot and run...uh, I mean creep.

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I couldn't agree more.

 

But I do think that the issue of the "Travel Rule" shouldn't be just pushed aside just because the TG's discussed it and the WB clarified it. Sure, the intent is understood. But should the issue be re-thought by the WB?

 

Shooting on the move is not all that much of an issue...really. It's rarely done because it's very hard to do effectively and SASS have very few stage layouts where it would be beneficial. Eliminating it (Travel Rule), would make calls more consistent and would allow the TO to concentrate on more important things.

 

These are thoughts...honest ones that are being thrown out here by a bunch of folks that care about the game and are not just a bunch of Wire Idjuts stirring the pot or disrespecting the work that those TG's and the WB did at the Summit.

 

Phantom

You know you could step up and become a TG and right these wrongs instead of venting on wire, the TG position in the clubs you belong too, should be voted on a yearly so the potential is there every year. ;)

 

KK

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Don't remember the box either.

 

If all the TOs were watching feet, they would see a lot of shooters doing what I will call the SASS shuffle, especially at a stand and deliver. Some will turn after cocked, stuffed, or racked. Barely noticeable, but then the movement is so subtle no one fears it. As an old gimpy guy, I couldn't move and shoot much, but there needs to be a way to allow a modicum of movement.

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You know you could step up and become a TG and right these wrongs instead of venting on wire, the TG position in the clubs you belong too, should be voted on a yearly so the potential is there every year. ;)

 

KK

Politics require a level of decorum that I don't seem to posses.

 

Besides, I do give value to the discussions by the masses.

 

;)

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I couldn't agree more.

 

But I do think that the issue of the "Travel Rule" shouldn't be just pushed aside just because the TG's discussed it and the WB clarified it. Sure, the intent is understood. But should the issue be re-thought by the WB?

 

Shooting on the move is not all that much of an issue...really. It's rarely done because it's very hard to do effectively and SASS have very few stage layouts where it would be beneficial. Eliminating it (Travel Rule), would make calls more consistent and would allow the TO to concentrate on more important things.

 

These are thoughts...honest ones that are being thrown out here by a bunch of folks that care about the game and are not just a bunch of Wire Idjuts stirring the pot or disrespecting the work that those TG's and the WB did at the Summit.

 

Phantom

+1. Good post. Shooting while moving was not allowed at EOT, it was not allowed at Bordertown and it even if this clarification had not been issued it was not going to be allowed at Winter Range. Seems to me EOT and Bordertown were both great shoots and the stages for WR look very entertaining.

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+1. Good post. Shooting while moving was not allowed at EOT, it was not allowed at Bordertown and it even if this clarification had not been issued it was not going to be allowed at Winter Range. Seems to me EOT and Bordertown were both great shoots and the stages for WR look very entertaining.

Just out of curiosity what was the penalty for doing it at those matches, provided that it was not done with a cocked and closed action?

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Why are TGs who choose not to fulfill their duty by representing their members still allowed by SASS to continue to hold the position?

Some clubs simply only have 1 member (or none) that have lifetime memberships. I personally know one club with a TG who lives in a different state!!!!! Makes it hard to do Buisness with a TG who isn't at your match every month, but what is the alternative when "lifetime membership" is required and many clubs don't have lifetime members, or the members who are "lifetime members" aren't interested in the position

 

Perhaps in the interest of getting more than 1/3 of the clubs to participate in the TG vote, SASS might consider dropping the "lifetime membership" requirement

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Some clubs simply only have 1 member (or none) that have lifetime memberships. I personally know one club with a TG who lives in a different state!!!!! Makes it hard to do Buisness with a TG who isn't at your match every month, but what is the alternative when "lifetime membership" is required and many clubs don't have lifetime members, or the members who are "lifetime members" aren't interested in the position

 

Perhaps in the interest of getting more than 1/3 of the clubs to participate in the TG vote, SASS might consider dropping the "lifetime membership" requirement

I agree.

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Politics require a level of decorum that I don't seem to posses.

 

Besides, I do give value to the discussions by the masses.

 

;)

Even a better reason to do it, you can be the masses hero. ;)

KK

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Right now this feels like the following to little ol' me. That could change

.

"Contains good and valuable information but is heading in a non-productive direction"

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Folks, perhaps this thread has run it's course...seems the issue of shooting a moving is being over shadowed by TG issues.

 

oh well...

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Some clubs simply only have 1 member (or none) that have lifetime memberships. I personally know one club with a TG who lives in a different state!!!!! Makes it hard to do Buisness with a TG who isn't at your match every month, but what is the alternative when "lifetime membership" is required and many clubs don't have lifetime members, or the members who are "lifetime members" aren't interested in the position

 

Perhaps in the interest of getting more than 1/3 of the clubs to participate in the TG vote, SASS might consider dropping the "lifetime membership" requirement

 

Lifetime membership is not the reason for poor TG representation - it is sheer laziness and apathy on the part of the clubs.

I happen to know the President of the club with the out of state TG.

And if having an active and trusted TG means going to an out of state representative - that certainly seems a better choice than doing without.

(or changing the requirements to be a TG)

 

Yes, the TG lives in a different state than the club he represents...

So what?

 

I'm pretty sure most of you on this thread live in a different state than I, and yet amazingly, we are all able to communicate, discuss, debate and convey our opinions with each other.

 

When the TG agenda came out - The club President and TG (in another state) spent a fair amount of time discussing the items.

The club put out the TG agenda via email to their members and invited feedback.

The club covered the agenda again at their monthly events.

The club covered the agenda yet again at their yearly membership meeting.

The club President conveyed these discussions via telephone and emails with the clubs "Out of State" TG.

 

This Club has their TG email listed on their website, so ANYONE may contact him.

This TG and the clubs president spend an hour (or more) in phone discussion almost weekly.

 

Open lines of discussion between the club and their TG are possible even with the perceived extra difficulty of having an out of state TG.

And if that club can do it - I have only a single conclusion for the clubs and TG's that don't. Laziness and apathy.

Has nothing to do with a lifetime membership requirement.

 

And frankly, if the club doesn't care enough to ensure the TG they have chosen will properly represent their opinions...

Or the TG they have chosen doesn't care enough to convey the clubs opinions, either in person or by proxy...

Then perhaps we are better off without their input.

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Does anyone know what the penalty was for shooting while moving at Winter Range, EOT, or Bordertown providing that it was done in accordance with the rules regarding when a gun is safe for movement in hand and the basketball rule?

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Why are TGs who choose not to fulfill their duty by representing their members still allowed by SASS to continue to hold the position?

Ok this is my opinion, not representing any club. I'm not a tg. However i have talked to three different.tgs in this area. It's a pretty thankless job. Going to the convention is on their dime and vacation time.

All three are pretty ticked off at how this new old new again rule was treated. The tgs worked out a rule last year. Then sass said oh well we are going to waste all the time, effort, and personal finances that went into that effort and go back to the old rule.

Then on top of it the whole fiasco with iowa st shoot last year, a lot of the local shooters aren't exactly enamored with sass headquarters. One tg has talked of resigning because of it.

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