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BJT

Shooting on the move

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Stages like that are pretty common around here. So, if that was legal under the new clarification what is to say that a shooter can not shoot 10 rounds from 10 positions so long as when they move the gun is in a condition that is safe for movement?

You beat me to it!

 

Stan

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Stages like that are pretty common around here. So, if that was legal under the new clarification what is to say that a shooter can not shoot 10 rounds from 10 positions so long as when they move the gun is in a condition that is safe for movement?

That is exactlly why this clarification came to be, your really scretching and I mean really looking for a loop hole, you can what if this to death, did you see the vid I posted ? If you did and you shoot like that you will get a penalty. Until your TG presents a change thats excepted or the rule reverts back it is the way it is.

If your person in the vid did what he did ten times in a row, starting out both feet on the ground and moved stopped with both feet fired,moved stopped with both feet fired,moved stopped with both feet fired that would be legal.

 

KK

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If your person in the vid did what he did ten times in a row, starting out both feet on the ground and moved stopped with both feet fired,moved stopped with both feet fired,moved stopped with both feet fired that would be legal.

 

KK

Where did you find that definition?.....I think it's more of an opinion.....thanks for making my point.

 

funny enough Most Wanted asked about moving with a round on the carrier of a 97, planting and shooting then planting the other foot....You said that was legal....which is it?

 

What if the 97 shooter started to move and lifted 1 foot fired,,,,,moved 10 feet,,,,loaded 1 on the carrier......planted one foot and fired.....see happen all the time....should be legal but according to your definition above it's not.

 

Stan

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That is exactlly why this clarification came to be, your really scretching and I mean really looking for a loop hole, you can what if this to death, did you see the vid I posted ? If you did and you shoot like that you will get a penalty. Until your TG presents a change thats excepted or the rule reverts back it is the way it is.

If your person in the vid did what he did ten times in a row, starting out both feet on the ground and moved stopped with both feet fired,moved stopped with both feet fired,moved stopped with both feet fired that would be legal.

 

KK

I am not stretching, I am reading. Can you please point me to the reference to both feet being planted in the rule book. I can not find it.

 

PS. I do not shoot on the move but I think it should be allowed. If not allowed it should be cleanly done away with.

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I am not stretching, I am reading. Can you please point me to the reference to both feet being planted in the rule book. I can not find it.

 

PS. I do not shoot on the move but I think it should be allowed. If not allowed it should be cleanly done away with.

The rules for movement (Basketball Traveling rule) does not relate to shooting on the move . Shooting on the move is expressly disallowed. The "basketball traveling rule" was originally intended to pertain to a competitor who inadvertently cocks a firearm in a position other than the designated firing position or was moving both feet whilst engaging targets at the firing position. One foot may be moved to adjust stance or correct balance. The Basketball Traveling rule was not intended to relate to multiple movements between shots (e.g. Shooting multiple shots during continuous movement.)

 

Defenition of traveling: A player who comes to a stop on the count of two, with one foot in advance of the other, may pivot using only the rear foot as the pivot foot. that means it must stay planted if he/she moves the the pivot foot then you traveled.

 

The clarification is not in the books yet, but will be soon.

 

KK

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The rules for movement (Basketball Traveling rule) does not relate to shooting on the move . Shooting on the move is expressly disallowed. The "basketball traveling rule" was originally intended to pertain to a competitor who inadvertently cocks a firearm in a position other than the designated firing position or was moving both feet whilst engaging targets at the firing position. One foot may be moved to adjust stance or correct balance. The Basketball Traveling rule was not intended to relate to multiple movements between shots (e.g. Shooting multiple shots during continuous movement.)

 

Definition of traveling: A player who comes to a stop on the count of two, with one foot in advance of the other, may pivot using only the rear foot as the pivot foot. that means it must stay planted if he/she moves the the pivot foot then you traveled.

Where did this definition come from?

 

The clarification is not in the books yet, but will be soon.

 

KK

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The rules for movement (Basketball Traveling rule) does not relate to shooting on the move . Shooting on the move is expressly disallowed. The "basketball traveling rule" was originally intended to pertain to a competitor who inadvertently cocks a firearm in a position other than the designated firing position or was moving both feet whilst engaging targets at the firing position. One foot may be moved to adjust stance or correct balance. The Basketball Traveling rule was not intended to relate to multiple movements between shots (e.g. Shooting multiple shots during continuous movement.)

 

Definition of traveling: A player who comes to a stop on the count of two, with one foot in advance of the other, may pivot using only the rear foot as the pivot foot. that means it must stay planted if he/she moves the the pivot foot then you traveled.

Where did this definition come from?

 

The clarification is not in the books yet, but will be soon.

 

KK

 

I Think it is right next to the part that says it is illegal to stand on one foot and shoot. :wacko:

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The rules for movement (Basketball Traveling rule) does not relate to shooting on the move . Shooting on the move is expressly disallowed. The "basketball traveling rule" was originally intended to pertain to a competitor who inadvertently cocks a firearm in a position other than the designated firing position or was moving both feet whilst engaging targets at the firing position. One foot may be moved to adjust stance or correct balance. The Basketball Traveling rule was not intended to relate to multiple movements between shots (e.g. Shooting multiple shots during continuous movement.)

 

Definition of traveling: A player who comes to a stop on the count of two, with one foot in advance of the other, may pivot using only the rear foot as the pivot foot. that means it must stay planted if he/she moves the the pivot foot then you traveled.

Where did this definition come from?

 

The clarification is not in the books yet, but will be soon.

 

KK

 

Came off the internet from the NBA rule book the underlined is what the pivot foot must do without commiting the foul, now the pivot foot can be front or rear just an example. heres a couple more examples:

 

  • Any action where the pivot foot is lifted and returned to the floor, or dragged along the floor.
  • Lifting the pivot foot, taking multiple steps, or shuffling the feet

 

 

 

KK

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Ok KK.....I'm pivoting on one foot with a cocked loaded firearm and fire the gun. Can I move?

 

Stan

Yes, and I understand the point your making and yes the way the rule was enforced it was legal kind of, the point I'm making is it's not now.

 

KK

 

piv•ot

(ˈpɪv ət)

 

n.

1. a pin, point, or short shaft on the end of which something rests and turns, or upon and around which something rotates or oscillates.
2. the end of a shaft or arbor, resting and turning in a bearing.
3. a person or thing on which something turns, hinges, or depends: She was the pivot of the campaign's success.
4. the person in a line, as of troops on parade, whom the others use as a point around which to wheel or maneuver.
5. a whirling around on one foot.
Walking
move at a regular and fairly slow pace by lifting and setting down each foot in turn, never having both feet off the ground at once:

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I Think it is right next to the part that says it is illegal to stand on one foot and shoot. :wacko:

you can do that if it makes you happy, but soon as you plant that second foot and pick up that first one and your gun hasn't been fired, oh well.

 

KK

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Yes, and I understand the point your making and yes the way the rule was enforced it was legal, the point I'm making is it's not now.

 

KK

Ok....so in the video where I fired 5 and moved that's not legal?....I moved both feet!...... I'm confused.....why is it ok to move both feet with the gun in safe condition but not 1 foot?

 

Stan

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moving with gun in a safe condition is like dribbling.....once cocked (ball held and not dribbled you can't travel).......the difference is that in our game once the gun is in safe condition (fired) you can move again (dribbling).

 

 

Stan

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you can do that if it makes you happy, but soon as you plant that second foot and pick up that first one and your gun hasn't been fired, oh well.

 

KK

I understand that, but if it has been fired can I then lift the other foot and shoot a round while standing on that one?

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Ok....so in the video where I fired 5 and moved that's not legal?....I moved both feet!...... I'm confused.....why is it ok to move both feet with the gun in safe condition but not 1 foot?

 

Stan

Already said you were legal in the vid and last time I checked you have to more both feet to run or walk, moving one is also legal but there is a difference between a pivot point and walking!

 

KK

 

Walking
move at a regular and fairly slow pace by lifting and setting down each foot in turn, never having both feet off the ground at once:

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Already said you were legal in the vid and last time I checked you have to more both feet to run or walk, moving one is also legal but there is a difference between a pivot point and walking!

 

KK

 

Walking
move at a regular and fairly slow pace by lifting and setting down each foot in turn, never having both feet off the ground at once:

 

So, you can or can not walk between shots in a string with the gun in a safe condition for movement? You have to pick one.

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So, you can or can not walk between shots in a string with the gun in a safe condition for movement? You have to pick one.

This say's you can not shoot on the move but you can walk all you want with the gun in safe condition all the way to the unloading table. What you use to do you can't do anymore, I didn't make the rule/clarification but as a TG and an RO/TO I will enforce until it changes or reverts back.

You can try and justify this until your fingers turn red on the key board, I will follow Pettifoggers suit and say have a great evening and shoot straight and fast, and good bye.

 

KK

 

PS I don't have to pick anything I don't make the rules. :P

 

The rules for movement (Basketball Traveling rule) does not relate to shooting on the move . Shooting on the move is expressly disallowed. The "basketball traveling rule" was originally intended to pertain to a competitor who inadvertently cocks a firearm in a position other than the designated firing position or was moving both feet whilst engaging targets at the firing position. One foot may be moved to adjust stance or correct balance. The Basketball Traveling rule was not intended to relate to multiple movements between shots (e.g. Shooting multiple shots during continuous movement.)

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If both feet are on the ground between cock and fire all is ok, can the feet move between the next cock and fire? Is a rule defined yet or are we waiting for what the rule is?

 

Thanks,

BJT

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Just one of the major rubs/problems/conflicts with the shoot,step,shoot,step,shoot,step..... style is, who is responsible for the viewing/monitoring of the foot/feet position at the same time viewing/monitoring the state the firearm is in (cocked or not) AND safely assisting and seeing procedurals, and whatever else? It is rather impossible to view the feet and gun at the same time.. and usually, the viewing of the firearm is hidden by the shooters body, hand, prop. Was the back foot the pivot, or was it the front foot the pivot??? The Spotters can't because they are looking down range. Then when you speed up the shooting cadence, or you get the stray shooter that attempts the shoot,step style and catches everyone by surprise,,,,well, just give up unless it is a major train wreck of a stage. you very well may have given an unfair call to the rest of the shooters by the shooter not executing the shoot-step just quite right. Is all this somehow right? I guess the folks that do it really don't care. Another problem is that some posses will allow it and others will not. Nice.

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Just one of the major rubs/problems/conflicts with the shoot,step,shoot,step,shoot,step..... style is, who is responsible for the viewing/monitoring of the foot/feet position at the same time viewing/monitoring the state the firearm is in (cocked or not) AND safely assisting and seeing procedurals, and whatever else? It is rather impossible to view the feet and gun at the same time.. and usually, the viewing of the firearm is hidden by the shooters body, hand, prop. Was the back foot the pivot, or was it the front foot the pivot??? The Spotters can't because they are looking down range. Then when you speed up the shooting cadence, or you get the stray shooter that attempts the shoot,step style and catches everyone by surprise,,,,well, just give up unless it is a major train wreck of a stage. you very well may have given an unfair call to the rest of the shooters by the shooter not executing the shoot-step just quite right. Is all this somehow right? I guess the folks that do it really don't care. Another problem is that some posses will allow it and others will not. Nice.

After you have watched someone do it a couple of times in person you will realize how hard it is to actually mess up so badly that you break the rules and how easy it is to see when that happens.

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Just one of the major rubs/problems/conflicts with the shoot,step,shoot,step,shoot,step..... style is, who is responsible for the viewing/monitoring of the foot/feet position at the same time viewing/monitoring the state the firearm is in (cocked or not) AND safely assisting and seeing procedurals, and whatever else? It is rather impossible to view the feet and gun at the same time.. and usually, the viewing of the firearm is hidden by the shooters body, hand, prop. Was the back foot the pivot, or was it the front foot the pivot??? The Spotters can't because they are looking down range. Then when you speed up the shooting cadence, or you get the stray shooter that attempts the shoot,step style and catches everyone by surprise,,,,well, just give up unless it is a major train wreck of a stage. you very well may have given an unfair call to the rest of the shooters by the shooter not executing the shoot-step just quite right. Is all this somehow right? I guess the folks that do it really don't care. Another problem is that some posses will allow it and others will not. Nice.

 

I dont think it's that hard to tell, not any harder to tell if someone is holstering their crossdraw properly which the shooter's body blocks.

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I propose the rule simply state all shooting strings to be from a designated shooting position. (i.e. from behind hay bale engage the 5 pistol targets in _________order, move to window engage 5 rifle targets in_________ order.)

 

Flame away!

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I propose the rule simply state all shooting strings to be from a designated shooting position. (i.e. from behind hay bale engage the 5 pistol targets in _________order, move to window engage 5 rifle targets in_________ order.)

 

Flame away!

 

Why ?

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I propose the rule simply state all shooting strings to be from a designated shooting position. (i.e. from behind hay bale engage the 5 pistol targets in _________order, move to window engage 5 rifle targets in_________ order.)

 

Flame away!

Aside from limiting creativity (fun), that really only solves anything if every prop you have is 18 inches wide. Under this rile if the stage instructions said to engage rifle targets from behind the table people can and would walk the length of the table while shooting.

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I propose the rule simply state all shooting strings to be from a designated shooting position. (i.e. from behind hay bale engage the 5 pistol targets in _________order, move to window engage 5 rifle targets in_________ order.)

Flame away!

I agree,stage should/could say something like shoot SG targets anywhere between A & B positions.

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I agree,stage should/could say something like shoot SG targets anywhere between A & B positions.

Yes they could and I guess that would hamper creativity.

 

I forgot the why. The why is it seems to me the Wild Bunch and some others think it isn't safe to shoot from any position other than a standing still type of position.

 

It's evident a rule is in place but a penalty has to be established for it to be adhered to.

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I dont think it's that hard to tell, not any harder to tell if someone is holstering their crossdraw properly which the shooter's body blocks.

You can look at the feet or look at the gun in hand but trying to view and judge the placement/condition of both at the same time is very difficult to impossible, especially if the view of the gun is hindered. And especially with the aging, lack of experience and so-so TO's that are running the clocks at todays shoots. A lot different than witnessing just the gun and how it is being holster in a x-draw. Then if the TO is focused on the foot position during the shooting string, then he is not in a position to monitor for a procedural/safety situations. Good my some, the percentile of getting a safety/procedural has been lowered.

 

BTW, the better x-draw shooters holsters are near vertical so they don't have to bother with a twist to reholster w/o breaking the 170. The others??? well, the enforcement of breaking of the 170 rule can and usually is very relaxed. So, I don't think comparing step-shot to x-draw is valid.

 

Only the advocates of the step-shoot throw out the someone thinks it is unsafe and it isn't argument. Something happened around the yr 2000 per PWB post that introduced the basketball rule. Only the advocates think that the basketball travel rule starts all over with the firing of the next round. I don't watch basketball much but I don;t see a player dribble the ball, stop dribbling, hold the ball, dribble some move, stop dribbling, dribble-move some more, stop, hold the ball, then take the shot. Of course, if you can discredit and remove reference to basketball from SASS, it makes the argument for step-shoot stronger.

 

Oh well, some want SASS to be an IPSIC shoot with single actions. About the same as the Wild Bunch Match is shooting Cowboy with a semiauto.

 

Finally, it is interesting that a sport can go some 15years (from the year 2000) and all of a sudden there is a new situation crop up that there isn't a rule/penalty for? This loophole has just been discovered? A new new rule/penalty may be needed to keep a very small group in check? I've heard some call some of these shooting situations as jungle rules are in place. As been mentioned, partisipation of CAS is dwindling and something needs to change. I don't think this will help (step-shoot).

 

Just a view and an opinion.

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You can look at the feet or look at the gun in hand but trying to view and judge the placement/condition of both at the same time is very difficult to impossible, especially if the view of the gun is hindered. And especially with the aging, lack of experience and so-so TO's that are running the clocks at todays shoots. A lot different than witnessing just the gun and how it is being holster in a x-draw. Then if the TO is focused on the foot position during the shooting string, then he is not in a position to monitor for a procedural/safety situations. Good my some, the percentile of getting a safety/procedural has been lowered.

 

Maybe

 

BTW, the better x-draw shooters holsters are near vertical so they don't have to bother with a twist to reholster w/o breaking the 170. The others??? well, the enforcement of breaking of the 170 rule can and usually is very relaxed. So, I don't think comparing step-shot to x-draw is valid.

 

170 relaxed and some how step and shoot is a problem

 

Only the advocates of the step-shoot throw out the someone thinks it is unsafe and it isn't argument. Something happened around the yr 2000 per PWB post that introduced the basketball rule. Only the advocates think that the basketball travel rule starts all over with the firing of the next round. I don't watch basketball much but I don;t see a player dribble the ball, stop dribbling, hold the ball, dribble some move, stop dribbling, dribble-move some more, stop, hold the ball, then take the shot. Of course, if you can discredit and remove reference to basketball from SASS, it makes the argument for step-shoot stronger.

 

I dont know rules for basketball either.

 

Oh well, some want SASS to be an IPSIC shoot with single actions. About the same as the Wild Bunch Match is shooting Cowboy with a semiauto

 

Stages are rarely set up for step and shoot to be a advantage if any, your also taking a risk getting a sdq if you take a second step, doing something a little different is fun, I've never shot IPSIC so I wouldnt know,.

 

Finally, it is interesting that a sport can go some 15years (from the year 2000) and all of a sudden there is a new situation crop up that there isn't a rule/penalty for? This loophole has just been discovered? A new new rule/penalty may be needed to keep a very small group in check? I've heard some call some of these shooting situations as jungle rules are in place. As been mentioned, partisipation of CAS is dwindling and something needs to change. I don't think this will help (step-shoot).

 

Actually I dont think this has a effect one way or another, I dont think its going to stop someone from shooting cas,, if anything could do opposite, a few years back they took away shooters box or area you could move with a cocked gun and now folks are harping on this trying to add yet another restriction.dont see how this is good for SASS / CAS

 

Just a view and an opinion.

 

 

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Sorry...with all of the shooting on the move and heavy high level discussion I think we need a break.

I just couldn't help myself....here ya go Ramblin Gambler.... :lol: :lol:

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Kajun,

 

Everytime I read this thread, I keep hearing the "Hokey Pokey" song run through my head.

 

You plant your left foot here,

You plant your right for there,

You shoot your pistol here,

Then you move to over there.

 

You better keep'em planted,

and you better all beware,

Movin's a stage DQ! (Somewhere) :P

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Sorry...with all of the shooting on the move and heavy high level discussion I think we need a break.

I just couldn't help myself....here ya go Ramblin Gambler.... :lol: :lol:

Hey now, that does look like fun!

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People keep asking what's the penalty for shooting on the move. It's already in the rules...SDQ. And no where does it say anything about planting both feet as a requirement.

Ike

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SDQ is for moving two feet with a cocked loaded gun. That's not the same thing.

 

Stan

 

Well. We'll see what comes down the pike. It might end up being that.

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Not wholly correct. Please read thru this portion of the 1989 Shooter's Handbook.

I didn't see any mention of "movement", "traveling" or "basketball", pro or con. Used to be QUITE a bit of movement; and while there was no specific prohibition of shooting while moving, if the RO thought you weren't doing it "safely", you could get called. In fact, when I first saw a video of W3G, I thought, what's so "new" 'bout that? It's exactly the way we used to shoot Cowboy ACTION up @ WEGC (West End Gun Club), back in the 1980s!

 

I can't find my '92, '95, '96, or '99 SHBs, but the 1st mention I find regarding how guns may be "moved" during the course of a stage is in 2000. The "game" wasn't ALWAYS this static... and, IMO it's lost a great number of shooters to other, less static games. THAT is a problem.

THAT....is EXACTLY correct, Sir.

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