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Cheyenne Culpepper 32827

another safety concern...

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First off let me say, I am fully aware the shooter is the most important factor concerning safety.

 

But we are only human!!!!

 

Do firearms with lightened springs become more of an issue? for the rifle and shotgun, I would have to say yes, but a quiet yes, they are within the 170 as you start and are easier to maintain the 170 much easier than pistols.

 

are pistols as safe with lightened springs? I would have to say, no. With lessoned hammer springs, the likelyhood of a hammer being pulled back accidently is increased. Then throw in a lightened spring on the trigger, then you have a firearm that requires more astute handling to maintain safety.

 

In my situation, I think my fingers slipped from the grip, but my thumb caught the hammer and my index finger the trigger,....stuff happens,,,,

 

That said, spend lots of time with proper dryfire practice if you are pushing the envelope, or even if you don't think you're pushing...

 

I think we get lazy or we start taking safety for granted,,, that is when accidents happen....

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Oh sorry, never mind, I thought you were going to talk about posting on the SASS wahr while intoxicated. :D

 

But I think you make the point I was trying to in the other thread.

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I've had this happen B4! I've got no doubt that short stroked pistols with lite springs are more dangerous!

Good advice Purdy Boy.

Regards

Ringer

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Well we are in a Shooting Sport Contest thats timed. Maybe we should also WORRY about ole men runnin with 97's with a shell on tha carrier with slick soled boots. We might just worry ourselves to death over a number of things. I myself worry more about a shooter shootin unaltered guns with factory everything shooting gunfighter than all else combined!

 

 

RRR

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oh yea, dunt think that cowboy loads won't hurt, mine are in the 825 range, it was buried in 3" of packed sand.... needless to say, it may have put more than a bruise on my foot....'

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Well we are in a Shooting Sport Contest thats timed. Maybe we should also WORRY about ole men runnin with 97's with a shell on tha carrier with slick soled boots. We might just worry ourselves to death over a number of things. I myself worry more about a shooter shootin unaltered guns with factory everything shooting gunfighter than all else combined!

 

 

RRR

 

 

Aye, RRR, tha's why we need TOs that watch the shooter and his firearms instead of watching the targets!!!!

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Aye, RRR, tha's why we need TOs that watch the shooter and his firearms instead of watching the targets!!!!

Ya loss me there CC I thought we were on lightened springs an safety?

 

 

RRR

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just addressing concern over people and poor gun handling.... least that's what I thunk yur wer tawking bout....

 

if not,,,,, :P:P

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BOTH-Guns and women can get you killed, if not cared for properly. ;)

Just gotta know when and where, to touch either......... :lol:

One can go 'off' easier, than the other. -_-

:ph34r:

LG

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rules are rules

lightend springs are lightend springs

nothing more, or nothing less

 

do NOt COck your firearms until?

DO NOT INSERT TRIGGER FINGER UNTIL??????????????

safety is safety

dont hurt others

dont hurt yer own self

be u a new shooter

or be U

a seasoned shooter

 

GEEESE

oy

dang nabbit

owe golly cheeze wize

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Are you saying that a souped up Corvette is more dangerous that a stock Chevette? I hardly think so.........it's all in the way one drives the car. -_-

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Are you saying that a souped up Corvette is more dangerous that a stock Chevette? I hardly think so.........it's all in the way one drives the car. -_-

hmmmmm

 

those two vehicles on same track,,,,I of course wud take the vette! :P

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Well we are in a Shooting Sport Contest thats timed. Maybe we should also WORRY about ole men runnin with 97's with a shell on tha carrier with slick soled boots. We might just worry ourselves to death over a number of things. I myself worry more about a shooter shootin unaltered guns with factory everything shooting gunfighter than all else combined!

 

 

RRR

Food for thought::: and adding to your thought....

 

I see a higher percentile of shooter injury/health disaster at matches coming in the form of health issues such as heart attack!!! Face it,,, the vast majority of SASS shooters are in the retired Senior Citizen catagory and looking around, most are out of shape, obesed (sp), and generally have failing body parts or other MEDICAL ISSUES! Combine that with heat & humiity and adrendline surges plus a does of alcohol/meds imbalance, or both before/during/after the match and wolay,,,, FACE PLANT on the firing line!!

 

So, how many clubs are prepared for that??? As in having an AED machine with qualified staff/MD/PM/TO's to operate such device????? Ya have about a 50/50 chance of recovery??? "if" you see & react to a victim that face plants with a heart attack..AND you have an AED.... drops 10% of chance of recovery for every minute you delay treatment.

 

Just saying.....

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another thought, who among your shooters has a de-fib implant??? if they go down, let the de-fib do its' work,,,, if yur touching him/her you're likely in for a good shock!!

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SASS is one of (perhaps the only) action shooting sport that does not have a rule requiring the trigger finger to be outside of the trigger guard (except when firing the gun).

 

SDQ for doing it in IDPA, USPSA and modern 3 Gun. MDQ for second offense.

 

The way SASS rules currently are, mitigate potential AD's but...

 

Perhaps better safety (and shooting on the move) could be done by rewriting the rules to include movement with the finger off the trigger, for all firearms?

 

In general firearms do not go off unless the trigger is pulled.

 

(null)

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SASS is one of (perhaps the only) action shooting sport that does not have a rule requiring the trigger finger to be outside of the trigger guard (except when firing the gun).

 

SDQ for doing it in IDPA, USPSA and modern 3 Gun. MDQ for second offense.

 

The way SASS rules currently are, mitigate potential AD's but...

 

Perhaps better safety (and shooting on the move) could be done by rewriting the rules to include movement with the finger off the trigger, for all firearms?

 

In general firearms do not go off unless the trigger is pulled.

 

(null)

We have this little thingie called a hammer that's gotta be pulled back...then the trigger works.

 

Yanking on guns and wondering what's going on...not good. Trying to jerk levers closed when the don't want to close...not good...etc...etc.

 

But I'm sure if we try real hard, we can come up with some more layers of rules to try and cover anyone's potential screw up from happening. Course...the game won't be the same...but what the hell...it's all about safety!

 

Ugh...

 

Phantom

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Phantom, sorry to disappoint you but there would be less rules with a finger out of the trigger guard rule added as all moving with loaded gun rules would all disappear.

 

And I agree it would change the sport perhaps for the better.

 

(null)

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Phantom, sorry to disappoint you but there would be less rules with a finger out of the trigger guard rule added as all moving with loaded gun rules would all disappear.

 

And I agree it would change the sport perhaps for the better.

 

(null)

You say...disappoint as though you're going to tell me something I don't know. That's...interesting.

 

Good luck with your dream to move with a live round in a closed action.

 

So when we work within a SASS reality, leave the rules as is and let the other games play it their way.

 

Phantom

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Perhaps I am just more of an optimist than you Phantom. We have seen much change in SASS recently...

 

Isn't it great that we both have the opportunity to voice our opinions on this wonderful forum?

 

(null)

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Perhaps I am just more of an optimist than you Phantom. We have seen much change in SASS recently...

 

Isn't it great that we both have the opportunity to voice our opinions on this wonderful forum?

 

(null)

Optimist...which implies that I'm a pessimist.

 

Don't see it that way...but whatever.

 

Good luck in your...quest.

 

Phantom

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We have this little thingie called a hammer that's gotta be pulled back...then the trigger works.

 

Yanking on guns and wondering what's going on...not good. Trying to jerk levers closed when the don't want to close...not good...etc...etc.

 

But I'm sure if we try real hard, we can come up with some more layers of rules to try and cover anyone's potential screw up from happening. Course...the game won't be the same...but what the hell...it's all about safety!

 

Ugh...

 

Phantom

Right Phantom"They" are not rowing tha same boat as we R

 

 

RRR

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I am NOT saying we need more rules, just that if you want to run on the edge, please take the time to practice your skills,,,,

 

and yes, like I said before, stuff happens!! you learn from it and go on,,,

 

if something goes wrong, be smart and cool about it, don't yank on stuff,,,,,

 

be safe have fun....

 

oh yea, no we don't need more rules,,,,,

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another thought, who among your shooters has a de-fib implant??? if they go down, let the de-fib do its' work,,,, if yur touching him/her you're likely in for a good shock!!

Defibulators will not shock folks who are trying to help. It takes a whole lot less energy when they are implanted

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Defibulators will not shock folks who are trying to help. It takes a whole lot less energy when they are implanted

Then the guy who told me that was yanking my chain?! dang it, gotten again!!!!

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Wyatt, if you do go done, all yur gonna git is kicked!!!!! as in, you taint dead, get up!!!! or if we think you are as we call 911 and they ask if we are sure yur dead,,,,,, BOOM, yep, we're sure!!

 

 

:P:P :P :P

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No rules or springs can fix stupid. Rifles, pistols and shotguns are harder to shoot with heavy springs. Accidents happen but always accidents are a result of one or more moments of dumb, rule violation, or loss of conscious thought. CC I'm sorry you had an AD but you violated the basic rule of good sense. I've screwed up as well get better by thinking not by legislating safety.

12

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SASS is one of (perhaps the only) action shooting sport that does not have a rule requiring the trigger finger to be outside of the trigger guard (except when firing the gun).


SASS WILD BUNCH™ACTION SHOOTING Handbook Page - 20


Minor Safety Penalties (10 seconds)

Failure to have the trigger finger outside the trigger guard while moving

Failure to have the trigger finger outside the trigger guard while reloading.

Failure to have the trigger finger outside the trigger guard when clearing a

malfunction


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Wyatt, if you do go done, all yur gonna git is kicked!!!!! as in, you taint dead, get up!!!! or if we think you are as we call 911 and they ask if we are sure yur dead,,,,,, BOOM, yep, we're sure!!

 

 

:P:P :P :P

 

I hate ta think how my enemies would treat me ;):blink:

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just; BOOM, BOOM BOOM!!!

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When you move with a loaded gun your finger should be outside the trigger guard.......I'll agree with that. So in "other sports" like IDPA, 3Gun, USPSA etc they have a live round in a charged gun.

 

In SASS we have and empty chamber and the hammer down so you all ready have two safeties in place. You can pull the trigger all you want but nothing will happen until you cock the hammer back, lever the action or work the pump to bring a live round in action and cock the hammer back........don't look for a fix and more rules for problems that don't exist.

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In a former life, I was the safety supervisor for Bell Atlantic.


Besides prevention, I also investigated accidents and injuries. This included motor vehicle accidents and on the job injuries. The object was to learn and prevent incidents in the future.


It was very rare that an accident or injury was caused by equipment failure. It was 99.9% human error and the violation of more than one existing safety rule.


Safety rules are layered. Some folks may think that is anal but it is on purpose to protect ourselves from our self.


Most injuries occur because more than one layer of safety was violated creating the perfect set of circumstances for the injury. You won't shoot yourself in the foot if, you keep your finger off the trigger and wait until you are 45 degrees off the ground and pointing downrange before you cock the hammer. It does not matter how slick the gun is or how light the trigger is, if you don't touch it, it will not release the hammer.


A majority of injuries occurred to "Experienced" workers. They were often complacent and accustomed to getting away with an unsafe practice because another level of safety protected them. Then one day, a combination on miscues happens and walla!


You can never relax. Just because you have crossed the same street 1,000 times without getting hit does not guarantee safe passage every time.

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An experienced shooter had a round go off, and over the berm, (MDQ) this past weekend. Using a new Winchester that didn't fire a round as the lever did not fully seat the safety. The shooter didn't understand what happened until after he squeezed the grip tighter while his finger was on the trigger. A new rifle, and a little bit different (tighter) action, AD. Can happen to anyone, anytime.

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SASS WILD BUNCH™ACTION SHOOTING Handbook Page - 20
Minor Safety Penalties (10 seconds)
Failure to have the trigger finger outside the trigger guard while moving
Failure to have the trigger finger outside the trigger guard while reloading.
Failure to have the trigger finger outside the trigger guard when clearing a
malfunction

 

 

Is that specific to Wild Bunch and the 1911 then? I would expect that with a semi-auto (as with USPSA, IDPA, etc.)

 

I don't remember seeing anything like that in the normal SASS shooter manual?

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Is that specific to Wild Bunch and the 1911 then? I would expect that with a semi-auto (as with USPSA, IDPA, etc.)

 

I don't remember seeing anything like that in the normal SASS shooter manual?

WB only...

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While keeping the finger out of the trigger guard sounds great, it also has some slight risk. As such many "experts" teach to have the trigger finger slightly in the guard, but pushing forward on the trigger guard.

 

With a relatively light trigger, when you "pull" the finger into the trigger guard, you must be careful not to bring it in too rapidly and thus touch the trigger before you are ready. I've seen some AD's on the range when folks did that - especially if they have longer or larger fingers. If the finger "snaps" past the trigger guard, it is quite easy to mess up.

 

That is another reason a few trainers say to have the finger curved above the trigger and slightly above the trigger, so the finger does not slap the trigger as it come in.

 

I find for me in some cases pressing the finger forward gives me more control and has been very safe. Of course, my finger isn't inside the guard as I draw - just no need for that.

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